Retro Gaming - a general discussion thread — Page 4

zombie84 said:

My friend/roommate is about 6 years younger than me, and grew up in the 32-bit era mainly. He always talks about "finishing" a game, as though it's inevitable if you just keep playing it, like how a movie is.

Games have definitely made that shift. I enjoy a good challenge, and I think there are still those out there. I see this shift as a good thing. Games as a means of story telling, rather than just a silly story slapped on a game to give it direction, has really taken off. There are games I just play for the story. Sure, I could probably get much better stories from a book or even movies, but it is an entirely different and very engaging way of experience a story.

You can still have that challenge, many games have a difficulty setting on them that can still reach a pretty brutal level. Bioshock on the hardest setting with vita-chambers turned off is pretty unforgiving, for example. 

But for the most part, even to beat a game like Halo on legendary or COD on veteran, it is just a matter of perseverance. Anyone could do it, as long as they are determined enough to make it to that next check point. Even if you suck, eventually you'll make it someway or another.

Heavy Rain probably isn't the best example since it's basically an interactive movie. Bioshock is a good example of a game with a great story and cinematics but also great gameplay. But the problem I find is that in half of the games that have made this "shift," the storylines or acting aren't good enough to justify putting gameplay to the backseat. Games shouldn't be something that you just walk through, but even first-person shooters like some of the Call of Duty entries, which don't have much in the way of story or character beyond the basics, you just kind of sit there and go through the levels. It's like that map image posted in the previous page, you just go through the motions to get to the next cut scene. Stuff like that works in really cinematic games like Heavy Rain, but the problem is that almost all games today have this issue, and it's hard to justify having that kind of approach for 85% of all games. It should be the reverse if anything, games like Bioshock and to some extent the Uncharted series can justify it because the story, characters and cinematics are designed so well and integrated into the gameplay very fluidly. But most games, in my opinion, either don't warrant it or don't do it well enough to justify it. Games with great storylines and cinematics actually have more permission to be above-average in difficulty since gamers will want to see how the story unfolds, but usually they are easier.

It's like how a lot of companies in the early 2000s started putting profanity in games for no real reason other than to sell you the idea that they were "more mature," or whatever. But half the games that did that were so mediocre and ham-fistedly conceived that any adult would stay away from them anyway. That was the impression I got on Area 51 for the X-Box, for example. Entertaining for a few minutes but the thing is bogged down in endless cut scenes with awful writing and acting, really nothing much better than you find in a kids comic book, and then they throw in strong profanity to try to make it seem more serious. If you're going to design a game that way, make sure it's done well, and make sure the gameplay is good too (Area 51 had pretty lousy gameplay at times). I was surprised to find the game was rated half decently.

My biggest issue is the controls required nowadays.  Last year I played a little Halo and Left 4 Dead (my first exposure to either of these) with xhonzi, and the thing I kept coming back to was how complicated the controls were.  I was constantly getting killed because I couldn't remember which button did what.  Maybe it was just because I needed more exposure to it, but it seems like console game controllers have gotten more and more complicated.

Funny thing is, I used to play PC games a lot, and obviously they got very complicated....but the keyboard seems like a much more reasonable controller to do more than just run, jump, and shoot.

I find it hard enough to cope going from game to game on the same console, more so on a different one so going from generation to generation doesn't feel that odd unless it's something like the wii.

Playstation controllers are practically the same as when the first emerged.

I remember having Final Fantasy VII for months before figuring out how the controls worked and finally getting hooked.

That must have been a year or two back?

Stupid cloud....

^^That and the Bronson, Missouri part are the only good things about that stupid episode.

I've never had a problem with controllers, since they basically haven't changed since 1997, and even then that was just a modified version of the SNES controller. If you've been playing games since the 1990s you shouldn't have a problem IMO. The very low rate of change since the PS1 twin-analog pad speaks to it's versatility, there simply hasn't been a need to change it. Even the Gamecube controller was just a less-effective version of the PS1 controller. X-Box originally based it's controller on the Dreamcast one but everyone complained and what do you know, they re-designed it based on the PS controller and it's stayed that way ever since.

Keyboards and me don't work very well for most games, other than MMOs or real-time strategy games where reflexes are less important and you have more abilities and options. Either there is too many buttons to remember which ones does what or you can't move your fingers to the correct key in time and/or accidentally hit the wrong one next to it, it's too hard for me to do without looking down at the keys and making sure I go to the right one, as opposed to simply doing it reflexively by feel the way controllers work. A lot of people prefer them for fps games though, I can go either way as they both have pros and cons. The best aspect of the keyboard for me is the ability to recall a specific weapon/ability through the number pad as opposed to cycling through your inventory on controllers, which can often take long enough to lead to your death when you need a split-second switch.

negative1 said:

try playing games without savepoints,

or savestates, or very limited lives.

a lot of early games never had those,

you had to finish them in one game,

(or pause maybe)...

nowadays, there are cheat codes,

hacks, gamer aids and of course

the design of the games are different.

 

sure some of that stuff was also

around back in the dawn of console

gaming. but true gamers never 

used them. now games have 

help and aid built in as features.

 

later

-1

I remember pokes and cheat codes going all the way back to VIC20 and ZX81.

It would seem that the current generation will be close to if not the last where you actually own a copy of a game.

In some ways this could be a good thing looking at the abused games discs of my godchildren and the amount of shelf space my game collection takes up.

I once tried to create a Zork type game using qbasic but I never finished it.

The only actual Zork game I've played is return to zork, but that's not really the same thing - it was all mouse driven and bad acting..

All I have is a NES, a N.64 and a PS2. Oh and a Game Boy Brick! I got the NES shortly before the SNES came out. My Dad got it used, it was cheep. I said I wanted a SNES never got one “ if you get a super Nintendo they will make a super Duper Nintendo the next year” that’s what my dad said. Also when Sonic came out I wanted a geneses never got that ether. Although is I what in a store that had a display SNES or geneses I would play 1 of them the hole time I where there. Years after I got a N64 I did not expect to get it, but I was tolled I had had a herd year and my Mom wanted to get me something special. I got my first to games where Star wars Shadowed of the empire , and Star Fox 64 as I had wanted the original SNES Star Fox but never got it. Years after that I was at high school and got good grades and got a PS2 the year it came out. I then found the Sonic mega collection and got all the old sonic game I could never have before.

This is still one of my favourite youtube videos, the sound the guy makes around the 4.06 mark is hilarious and I love his little shuffling moves to try and avoid the inevitable.

I remember Frink not being impressed by this when I posted the subtitled version so here it is as naked as the day it was born.

I loved the original Zork.  One of the few games I remember beating without any cheats or hints.

Bingowings said:

This is still one of my favourite youtube videos, the sound the guy makes around the 4.06 mark is hilarious and I love his little shuffling moves to try and avoid the inevitable.

I remember Frink not being impressed by this when I posted the subtitled version so here it is as naked as the day it was born.

Pewdiepie, but Japanese and years earlier. :p

red5-626 said:

I got the NES shortly before the SNES came out. My Dad got it used, it was cheep. I said I wanted a SNES never got one “ if you get a super Nintendo they will make a super Duper Nintendo the next year” that’s what my dad said.

Holy Cow! I want! I want!

The hours I spent scaring myself witless playing this on the Spectrum.

I recently had to pass on a NEO GEO MVS cabinet with two games for only $350. The cab needed some superficial repair, and two of the buttons were broken but it was apparently in working order otherwise. Unfortunately, I don't have the space, or really the ability to travel 50 miles to pick it up. Shame. Some friends of mine were going to build our own but it would have been awesome to get a real one. I would love to get into collecting arcade boards, but you really have to know a little bit about electronic/electrical engineering to do a lot of the little wiring/circuit repairs that pop up so often, or else spend a lot of money on pristine boards.