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Rendering from Vegas, what's the best way?

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It seems that what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, as when I render out my video files I'm often finding frames that I cut reappearing in the final video. It's like the render is inserting the single frame after a cut before moving on to the next scene. Some examples of what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SnpZLqzYP8

at 2:22 there's a brief flash of Obi-wan before cutting to the trade fed bridge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZGvPKm8ZKU

Just way too many instances to list :\

 

So, who here is a Vegas Guru who either knows why this is happening or how to avoid it?

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TV's Frink said:

Over at FE.org, ThrowgnCpr suggested CCE, HC Encoder, or TMPG Encoder.

What does this have to do with the above posted question, those are MPEG2 encoders, he is rendering an avi, unless I don't get it either.

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Pagz said:

It seems that what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, as when I render out my video files I'm often finding frames that I cut reappearing in the final video. It's like the render is inserting the single frame after a cut before moving on to the next scene.

That happens to me sometimes too, and I don't know why.  But I have found that if I zoom in to the cut, and move frame by frame across it, I see such bugs in the preview window and can fix them before rendering.  I have made it a habit to do that on everything I do in Vegas before rendering. The easiest way I've found to fix it is to move the next clip up to another track and then one frame to the left, to "cover up" the errant frame.

There's another bug I have encountered with Vegas that only comes up rarely, but it is extremely annoying when it happens.... sometimes when I resize or trim a clip, it completely messes up the rest of the clip by replacing some of the frames with duplicates of nearby frames.  The result is the video becoming very jerky.  I haven't found a fix for that one... usually I have to delete the clip and reinsert it.  I could see it happening if I stretch a clip, but it shouldn't happen just from trimming or resizing.

Vegas also renders some title font sizes very poorly... I'm guessing they probably fixed that one in a later version (I need to upgrade).

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 (Edited)

dark_jedi said:

TV's Frink said:

Over at FE.org, ThrowgnCpr suggested CCE, HC Encoder, or TMPG Encoder.

What does this have to do with the above posted question, those are MPEG2 encoders, he is rendering an avi, unless I don't get it either.

I didn't realize there was a difference.

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Ok then, how about this one?

ThrowgnCpr said:

I have gotten fantastic results saving as lagarith AVI (same as my input) and encoding with x264 using MeGUI. No problems, beautiful quality.

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Er, that's not really related to the question either. The OP was describing a bug in the Vegas timeline that shows up sometimes when rendering. Lagarith is a codec... the bug described would occur regardless of the codec used.

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 (Edited)

What I'm saying, and I don't know if this is true, is that the Vegas rendering engine may have something to do with the flash frames.  I've had this problem too, even though I zoom in as far as possible before making my cuts, and even though the Vegas preview doesn't show the extra frames.

So it might be related to the OP, but I'm just making a guess.

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I've only ever experienced this bug when working with mpeg NTSC files. It doesn't seem to handle 23.976fps files if the pulldown hasn't been removed first. Things may look ok in the timeline but when rendering it screws up. It seems as if it misdetects the pulldown when rendering which results in the added frames.   This doesn't happen when using lagarith avi though because the pulldown would have already been removed and you're editing at native 23.976. Plus, if you use the lagarith codec you can render out as an an avi file, using the same codec and settings as your project, and it will only re-render the frames/ sections that have had any effects or changes done, so rendering time is significantly cut. Use an external Mepg2 encoder to encode your final video as sony's is pretty lame. I would recommend using procoder3 as this gives the best picture quality than any other mpeg2 encoder that i have experienced, including CCE

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I'm working with lagarith avi sources, although I haven't tried exporting as lagarith yet (just regular avi).  I'll have to see if that helps.  Thanks for the info ady.

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Mine is a lagarith AVI that I'm editing, but I've just been using the default AVI encoder when I render out. I'll have to figure out how to switch it to lagarith. Cheers for the info Ady, much appreciated.

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After you choose "render as," hit the "custom" button.  On the video tab there should be a dropdown field to select lagarith.

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I'm using 9 studio.  Couldn't afford pro and 10 studio wouldn't run on my PC for some reason.

As for pulldown...I have no idea!  I guess I'm too new at this to know.  How would I check?

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I'm using Vegas Studio Pro 9.0

My understanding was that the procedure I followed gave me a progressive scan anamorphic lossless AVI. I don't know if that means the pulldowns have already been removed.

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Pro and Studio are different programs (Studio is the cheap one).

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Frink, there is actually a Pro version of Vegas Studio.  Sony's nomenclature can certainly be confusing at times! :)

Pagz, the procedure you followed, using Forced Film, might have left blended frames if the removal of the pulldown was not completely successful.  You might try selecting "Honor Pulldown Flags" when you first make your lagarith AVI (prior to editing) and writing a script to inverse telecine if none of Adywan's information helps you.

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Chewtobacca said:

Frink, there is actually a Pro version of Vegas Studio.  Sony's nomenclature can certainly be confusing at times! :)

I looked into that when I bought my version.  It's the "Pro Pack" which has now been renamed as a "Suite" for v10, so my statement was correct as far as the most current version goes.  ;-)

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Sorry, I thought you were correcting Pagz in respect of Vegas 9 in post 16.  My mistake! :)

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To put all the confusion to rest, it was my bad. I'm using Vegas Pro 9.0 :p

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Ah. 9 pro. Ok, well this might not be the same thing that's happening to you but you say you only have 1 flash frame now. Well find the point of the flash frame on the rendered video and check the timeline. 9 sometimes shifted my cut points to 1 frame after the original cut upon reopening the project. This happened a lot which is one of the reasons i got fed up with it and went back to 7, even though i could no longer edit straight from my AVCHD camcorder files.

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I have that issue on occasion, and all I do is trim off 1 frame from the end of the clip that's causing the problem.

Btw, I'm using Vegas 10c Pro, and render out using XviD.

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 (Edited)

I've discovered it's the same issue for me - I just go and trim one extra frame and it solves the problem.