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Religion — Page 90

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Since God dwells within everyone*, everyone has a relationship with God, regardless of whether they’re aware of it or not, whether they believe or disbelieve.

That’s my 2¢ opinion, anyway.

*Everyone born with a conscience, anyway.

I don’t like the idea that conscience is related to God. I’m very secular in morality. The idea that we need God at all to be empathetic people is, in my opinion, unfair.

Fight the real enemy!

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moviefreakedmind said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Since God dwells within everyone*, everyone has a relationship with God, regardless of whether they’re aware of it or not, whether they believe or disbelieve.

That’s my 2¢ opinion, anyway.

*Everyone born with a conscience, anyway.

I don’t like the idea that conscience is related to God. I’m very secular in morality. The idea that we need God at all to be empathetic people is, in my opinion, unfair.

I believe God is love, and I believe that love permeates the universe, and us in turn. It’s an innate attribute of our being; our ability/inability to recognize the source is immaterial.

Doubt thou the stars are fire,
Doubt that the sun doth move,
Doubt truth to be a liar,
But never doubt I love.

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DuracellEnergizer said:

moviefreakedmind said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Since God dwells within everyone*, everyone has a relationship with God, regardless of whether they’re aware of it or not, whether they believe or disbelieve.

That’s my 2¢ opinion, anyway.

*Everyone born with a conscience, anyway.

I don’t like the idea that conscience is related to God. I’m very secular in morality. The idea that we need God at all to be empathetic people is, in my opinion, unfair.

I believe God is love, and I believe that love permeates the universe, and us in turn. It’s an innate attribute of our being; our ability/inability to recognize the source is immaterial.

I ain’t the most loving guy, in case you haven’t noticed, but I like to think that I behave ethically and decently toward others at least most of the time in spite of my horrible character flaws.

Fight the real enemy!

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ChainsawAsh said:

Anybody have any thoughts on pantheism?

Pantheism might’ve been swell at some point, back when the static universe theory held sway. In light of Big Bang cosmology, though, and the heat death of the universe? I don’t see the appeal.

Panentheism’s what I go for.

Doubt thou the stars are fire,
Doubt that the sun doth move,
Doubt truth to be a liar,
But never doubt I love.

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moviefreakedmind said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

moviefreakedmind said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

Since God dwells within everyone*, everyone has a relationship with God, regardless of whether they’re aware of it or not, whether they believe or disbelieve.

That’s my 2¢ opinion, anyway.

*Everyone born with a conscience, anyway.

I don’t like the idea that conscience is related to God. I’m very secular in morality. The idea that we need God at all to be empathetic people is, in my opinion, unfair.

I believe God is love, and I believe that love permeates the universe, and us in turn. It’s an innate attribute of our being; our ability/inability to recognize the source is immaterial.

I ain’t the most loving guy, in case you haven’t noticed, but I like to think that I behave ethically and decently toward others at least most of the time in spite of my horrible character flaws.

And I believe those feelings ultimately stem from God, even though you don’t believe or care for God. But that’s only what my personal zeitgeist’s led me to believe; I won’t presume there’s any objectivity to my worldview.

Doubt thou the stars are fire,
Doubt that the sun doth move,
Doubt truth to be a liar,
But never doubt I love.

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chyron8472 said:

ZigZig said:

it seems to me that you do not understand that your “opponents” are not opposed to the idea of God,

It seems to me that they are opposed to the idea of a God who desires relationship with us, if even exists at all.

I’m not sure what you mean by “opposed to the idea”. I’m opposed to privatizing social security, and I’m opposed to mandating prayer in schools. By contrast, I don’t believe in God, but that doesn’t mean that I am “opposed” to there being a God. If there is, great! What I oppose is passing laws based on the assumption that there is a God, especially some alleged particular God.

As far as whether he desires a relationship with us, that would be awesome. But it seems to me that if he does exist, he isn’t making that desire clear at all. It seems more like a claim made by some people.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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suspiciouscoffee said:

Chyron, your presupposition, and refusal to elaborate on said presupposition, that God’s existence is completely evident and unquestionable can be frustrating. Your strong faith is quite admirable, but your behavior in this thread today is baffling.

IMO the danger of any mixed-company religious conversation is failure to couch terms appropriately, and that goes double for text-only formats. This whole “true for me” and “true for you” is ultimately sorta bullshit, but useful bullshit. Chyron knows there’s a God. He’s 100% certain of this. I know there aren’t any gods. I’m 100% certain of this as well. You don’t have to wade very far into a conversation with this level of un-couched honesty before you reach the obvious conclusion that one of us is wrong.

But that’s not a useful conclusion to any religious discussion. It neither helps nor informs anyone. Unless you’re in the conversion racket, I suppose, which I’m certainly not. So instead of saying “I know”, people say “I believe”, which ratchets down the conflict a bit. But really, for some people it’s the same damn thing. Chyron and me, we both know, we’re both certain. But to facilitate a more fruitful conversation, it’s “belief”, which is suitably equivocal, albeit sometimes less accurate.

Now sure, many/most have room for real doubt, and I’m not trying to downplay that. I think doubt is far more theologically interesting than certainty on the faith end of the spectrum (whereas hardly anything is theologically interesting about my end). I think the story of Doubting Thomas illustrates this quite well, how lack of certainty/evidence is precisely what gives value to faith. I’m not exactly sure how to approach absolute religious certainty in that respect, but I’ll keep reading and listening.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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CatBus said:

suspiciouscoffee said:

Chyron, your presupposition, and refusal to elaborate on said presupposition, that God’s existence is completely evident and unquestionable can be frustrating. Your strong faith is quite admirable, but your behavior in this thread today is baffling.

Chyron knows there’s a God. He’s 100% certain of this. I know there aren’t any gods. I’m 100% certain of this as well.

But that’s not a useful conclusion to any religious discussion. It neither helps nor informs anyone.

Unless one is interested in an “I’m certain of this; now what?” sort of conversation. A deeper conversation that holds to certain truths. Conversations about a relationship with God rather than merely whether there is, should, or can be one.

I don’t expect to have a lengthy conversation as such here in mixed company, though. And true, my certainty wouldn’t be useful in an elementary debate, but debate is not needed for me about that. I’ve made my decision.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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TV’s Frink said:

CatBus said:

Chyron knows there’s a God. He’s 100% certain of this. I know there aren’t any gods. I’m 100% certain of this as well.

How can you possibly know that? The only thing I find more unlikely than someone knowing for certain God exists is someone knowing for certain that gods don’t exist.

Basically via Occam’s Razor, but not even that philosophical. I am comfortable making the following statement:

There is absolutely, positively, not a giant pink-and-mauve duck flying in space, hidden in the dark side of the moon, with the capacity not only to survive in space, but also to be undetectable to any attempt to observe it.

Now, this duck, by its very definition, cannot be proven not to exist, yet I am absolutely certain that it does not.

Gods are far more implausible than the duck, so by extension I am certain that they also do not exist.

EDIT: My mom is agnostic, and I totally get that viewpoint as well. But I’m pretty sure she doesn’t believe in the duck either.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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CatBus said:

TV’s Frink said:

CatBus said:

Chyron knows there’s a God. He’s 100% certain of this. I know there aren’t any gods. I’m 100% certain of this as well.

How can you possibly know that? The only thing I find more unlikely than someone knowing for certain God exists is someone knowing for certain that gods don’t exist.

Basically via Occam’s Razor, but not even that philosophical. I am comfortable making the following statement:

There is absolutely, positively, not a giant pink-and-mauve duck flying in space, hidden in the dark side of the moon, with the capacity not only to survive in space, but also to be undetectable to any attempt to observe it.

Now, this duck, by its very definition, cannot be proven not to exist, yet I am absolutely certain that it does not.

Gods are far more implausible than the duck, so by extension I am certain that they also do not exist.

You do realize that the nature of God would be such that the odds are we can’t even conceptualize it, right?

IMO it’s very foolish to assume something you can’t even understand can’t exist. And you most certainly cannot prove you are right.

Sometimes I find atheists every more exasperating than theists. The only thing that makes them better (which is no small thing, I know) is that they don’t try to force their beliefs on me.

Episode I: The Ridiculous Menace / Episode II: Attack Of The Ridiculousness / Episode III: Revenge of the Ridiculousness

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TV’s Frink said:

CatBus said:

TV’s Frink said:

CatBus said:

Chyron knows there’s a God. He’s 100% certain of this. I know there aren’t any gods. I’m 100% certain of this as well.

How can you possibly know that? The only thing I find more unlikely than someone knowing for certain God exists is someone knowing for certain that gods don’t exist.

Basically via Occam’s Razor, but not even that philosophical. I am comfortable making the following statement:

There is absolutely, positively, not a giant pink-and-mauve duck flying in space, hidden in the dark side of the moon, with the capacity not only to survive in space, but also to be undetectable to any attempt to observe it.

Now, this duck, by its very definition, cannot be proven not to exist, yet I am absolutely certain that it does not.

Gods are far more implausible than the duck, so by extension I am certain that they also do not exist.

You do realize that the nature of God would be such that the odds are we can’t even conceptualize it, right?

As with the duck. It’s more of a wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey astro-duck. And it ain’t there.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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I’m not actually here to argue this point, but since you asked I’m answering. Atheism is ultimately a very boring way of looking at the world. I prefer to talk about more interesting things.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Meanwhile, I know God exist inasmuch as I know I exist and that other people I encounter in real life also exist. I also know he cares about me in a similar way that I know other people who are close to me care about me. For me to say I’m not certain God exists would be in the same argument of positing that I don’t really exist nor any of my family or friends.

That is to say, I’m much more certain that God exists than I am that you do, because you could actually be Skynet.

To explain why I’m certain would probably be one of these outer circles:

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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chyron8472 said:

Meanwhile, I know God exist inasmuch as I know I exist and that other people I encounter in real life also exist. I also know he cares about me in a similar way that I know other people who are close to me care about me. For me to say I’m not certain God exists would be in the same argument of positing that I don’t really exist nor any of my family or friends.

Do you believe you’ve been singled out by God to be cared for?

Fight the real enemy!

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TV’s Frink said:

I find it highly unlikely that God, if it exists, cares about anyone specifically. If it did, it would be choosing some people over other people and that’s a pretty shitty thing for a God to do.

But I could be wrong!

And if he did, then he wouldn’t be very likable. Or worth worshipping at all.

Fight the real enemy!

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moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

I find it highly unlikely that God, if it exists, cares about anyone specifically. If it did, it would be choosing some people over other people and that’s a pretty shitty thing for a God to do.

But I could be wrong!

And if he did, then he wouldn’t be very likable. Or worth worshipping at all.

You better worship it or you’re going to hell pal.

Episode I: The Ridiculous Menace / Episode II: Attack Of The Ridiculousness / Episode III: Revenge of the Ridiculousness

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TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

TV’s Frink said:

I find it highly unlikely that God, if it exists, cares about anyone specifically. If it did, it would be choosing some people over other people and that’s a pretty shitty thing for a God to do.

But I could be wrong!

And if he did, then he wouldn’t be very likable. Or worth worshipping at all.

You better worship it or you’re going to hell pal.

That sounds hot. Count me in.

Fight the real enemy!

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Case in point. I don’t think taking the time to explain myself would matter to you guys. At best you would be curious about what I’d have to say, but not genuinely interested, and you have already said you assert that testimony is not evidence. That includes my testimony.

…and I really hate being made fun of or laughed at. Laying myself out there opens me up to the distinct possibility. I’m not really keen on that.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

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I don’t understand why you’re not answering any of my questions. I obviously want to know what your response will be.

Fight the real enemy!

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Frankly, on the Internet in general, that’s probably a good move. As for me, I’m interested to hear it. And for what it’s worth, I’ll believe your testimony is “true for you”, which is about as much credence as I’ll grant anyone’s testimony.

Just because I don’t believe religions doesn’t mean I don’t like them. I’m always up for better understanding of my fellow man Skynet nodes.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)