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I don’t think messages such as kill the infidels or subjugating women should be considered as morals. Just my opinion though.
nor did I.
Religion — Page 52
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faith doesn’t require empirical evidence.
Nor do magic tricks.
JEDIT: While I’m at it, neither does Trump.
this doesn’t change the point I was making.
Hey if you want to believe in God, magic, and Trump, that’s your business. :p
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faith doesn’t require empirical evidence.
Nor do magic tricks.
JEDIT: While I’m at it, neither does Trump.
this doesn’t change the point I was making.
Hey if you want to believe in God, magic, and Trump, that’s your business. :p
having faith in one thing, doesn’t mean you have to have faith in others.
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Yeah, I’m bowing out of this thread for the foreseeable future.
Y’know, I do have respect for atheists. I’ve encountered a fair number of them over the Internet over the years, and a fair share of them are pretty decent guys; they aren’t shy to make their skepticism/criticism of religion/theism known, but they tend to remain well-mannered and respectful, never going out of their way to resort to strawman arguments or inflammatory language to insult or belittle their opponents even when their opponents failed to do likewise. Some of those atheists frequent this very forum, I might add. Unfortunately, most of them aren’t here right now.
I’ll just end this post with an apology to Mike O; if you’re reading this, I’m truly sorry for inadvertently sparking off this worthless discussion; you don’t deserve the strife.
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Well I would like to apologize if I came off as belittling. It was not my intention to belittle anyone, only to state my own personal views on the broadest, most basic idea of religion.
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faith doesn’t require empirical evidence.
Nor do magic tricks.
JEDIT: While I’m at it, neither does Trump.
this doesn’t change the point I was making.
Hey if you want to believe in God, magic, and Trump, that’s your business. :p
having faith in one thing, doesn’t mean you have to have faith in others.
I’m half-kidding. But it is odd to me that people would choose to believe in some things that require no evidence while not believing in other things requiring evidence.
Why don’t you believe in magic? Or ghosts? Or aliens?
(maybe you do, I’m not sure)
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The topic of ETs is a bit different from the other two.
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Why? There’s no definitive proof of any of those things.
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faith doesn’t require empirical evidence.
Nor do magic tricks.
JEDIT: While I’m at it, neither does Trump.
this doesn’t change the point I was making.
Hey if you want to believe in God, magic, and Trump, that’s your business. :p
having faith in one thing, doesn’t mean you have to have faith in others.
I’m half-kidding. But it is odd to me that people would choose to believe in some things that require no evidence while not believing in other things requiring evidence.
Why don’t you believe in magic? Or ghosts? Or aliens?
(maybe you do, I’m not sure)
I have faith that Christ is real, I don’t have faith in the others you mention. If it seems odd to you, it will have to remain that way.
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Given that there’s over 200 billion Galaxies in our universe it’s pretty much statistically impossible that we’re alone. Now whether there is intelligent life elsewhere is a whole other conversation.
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I have faith that Christ is real, I don’t have faith in the others you mention. If it seems odd to you, it will have to remain that way.
But the question is why? Why do you believe one thing and not another if there’s no proof for either?
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Given that there’s over 200 billion Galaxies in our universe it’s pretty much statistically impossible that we’re alone. Now whether there is intelligent life elsewhere is a whole other conversation.
Ok sorry I should have said “intelligent aliens.”
Whether we are intelligent life is also a whole other conversation. We might elect Donald Trump, for goodness sake.
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This whole disussion will not accomplish much I’m sure, but I will say that it takes as much intelligence to blindly discard an entire religion based on some passages of scripture written in an ancient context as it does to blidnly accept those same scriptures as the inerrant and uncorrupted word of God through the centuries. God was speaking to ancient prophets in an ancient culture, and the fact of the matter is that the ideals in Old Testament were quite progressive compared to the norms of neighboring civilizations at the time. It is literally idiotic to judge the morals of ancient Israel (or any other ancient culture) with modern day morals.
And your final sentence here confirms what I just stated, that your judgment is idiotic. Let’s get philosophical and assume there is no God. With that assumption in place, you must then recognize that morals are as arbitrary as words: they are literally nothing more than culturally-accepted norms among humans interacting in a complex system. And since human understanding changes, so do morals. I guarantee you, if you wrote a book ennumerating what you believe to be the perfect moral system, and this book were to be read in 3,000 years, you would in fact be viewed as barbaric and backwards, particularly by the ignoramuses of that time who would expect your views to align with theirs.
I am glad you have morals. But your morals are what you feel is right, based on cultural norms and your own experience. You cannot measure ancient cultures by your own yard stick any more than you can judge a Muslim woman for wearing a burqa.
There are many other outlets that preach similar things that the good passages in the Bible teach and has none of the repugnant shit that the Bible has as well. So why not dismiss it? Also my book wouldn’t be seen as barbaric and backwards because I wouldn’t be chastising people for being different than me and I wouldn’t be calling for these people to die. So don’t even because I don’t want to hear that stupid shit.
This is why I hardly post anymore because I get sucked into conversations I don’t have time for. However, you seem to have an extremely ignorant view of what morals truly are. They are not universal, set in stone, or permanent. They are arbitrary based on cultural acceptance. What you believe you hold as the epitome of morality demonstrates your ignorance. Sadly, I have no more time to talk to you, and you don’t provide very intellectually stimulating conversation anyway, so I will have to allow others to carry on the fruitless effort of pointing out your fallacious and foolish argument.
For the record, I have no problem with atheists. I respect so many of them and enjoy intelligent conversation. Sadly, this thread is lacking in that department at the moment from the atheist side. Bring back CP3S.
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But why have faith? I’m not trying to be an ass so I’m sorry if it comes off that way I’m genuinely curious. Why blindly believe something without evidence? Is it just because you were raised to believe it’s true. I mean I can make just about any outrageous claim I want to a child, tell them it’s true enough times and they’ll probably believe it.
Why is it a good thing to have faith? If I told you I could fly, you wouldn’t just take me on faith and believe me. You would want me to prove it somehow before you believed it. Why does religion get a pass. You’re clearly an intelligent person, so why put that aside when it comes to Jesus?
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I have faith that Christ is real, I don’t have faith in the others you mention. If it seems odd to you, it will have to remain that way.
But the question is why? Why do you believe one thing and not another if there’s no proof for either?
because I have faith in the one thing, but not the others.
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There is absolutely 0 evidence to support the existence of any god(s). It is a ridiculous ancient notion and I honestly can’t comprehend how intelligent, rational people in the modern age can believe in an invisible man in the sky who created everything and a centuries old man who rounded up two of every animal on a boat and a dirt man and a rib woman and a man living in a whale. It’s absolutely ridiculous. I’m sorry if this offends anyone but it’s all really silly.
Depends on what you call evidence. Not offended by you, but again, this is an age-old argument that any religious person has already addressed, so you score no points for originality. Sorry. To me there is ample evidence.
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I have faith that Christ is real, I don’t have faith in the others you mention. If it seems odd to you, it will have to remain that way.
But the question is why? Why do you believe one thing and not another if there’s no proof for either?
because I have faith in the one thing, but not the others.
That doesn’t answer the question.
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darth_ender said:
This is why I hardly post anymore because I get sucked into conversations I don’t have time for. However, you seem to have an extremely ignorant view of what morals truly are. They are not universal, set in stone, or permanent. They are arbitrary based on cultural acceptance. What you believe you hold as the epitome of morality demonstrates your ignorance. Sadly, I have no more time to talk to you, and you don’t provide very intellectually stimulating conversation anyway, so I will have to allow others to carry on the fruitless effort of pointing out your fallacious and foolish argument.For the record, I have no problem with atheists. I respect so many of them and enjoy intelligent conversation. Sadly, this thread is lacking in that department at the moment from the atheist side. Bring back CP3S.
I apologize for not being more open to reprehensible viewpoints.
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There is absolutely 0 evidence to support the existence of any god(s). It is a ridiculous ancient notion and I honestly can’t comprehend how intelligent, rational people in the modern age can believe in an invisible man in the sky who created everything and a centuries old man who rounded up two of every animal on a boat and a dirt man and a rib woman and a man living in a whale. It’s absolutely ridiculous. I’m sorry if this offends anyone but it’s all really silly.
Depends on what you call evidence. Not offended by you, but again, this is an age-old argument that any religious person has already addressed, so you score no points for originality. Sorry. To me there is ample evidence.
https://www.mormon.org/faq/faith-in-god
God has provided many evidences of His existence. One of these is the testimony of His creations: “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork” (Psalms 19:1). Have you ever looked in awe at the night sky with its billions of stars? Or studied the intricate details of a leaf or flower? Or marveled at the miracle of a tiny new baby? These beautiful and complex creations didn’t come about by chance.
Or maybe they did.
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There is absolutely 0 evidence to support the existence of any god(s). It is a ridiculous ancient notion and I honestly can’t comprehend how intelligent, rational people in the modern age can believe in an invisible man in the sky who created everything and a centuries old man who rounded up two of every animal on a boat and a dirt man and a rib woman and a man living in a whale. It’s absolutely ridiculous. I’m sorry if this offends anyone but it’s all really silly.
Depends on what you call evidence. Not offended by you, but again, this is an age-old argument that any religious person has already addressed, so you score no points for originality. Sorry. To me there is ample evidence.
But empirical evidence is not a subjective thing. I call evidence the same thing scientists do, which is in essence, something observable that supports the theory. I’m not trying to be original I’m just trying to ask questions and have a discussion.
You say “to me there is ample evidence” well, such as? I genuinely want to know. Again, I know I can come off as somewhat stand-offish at times. I don’t mean to. Just wanting to discuss.
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I can’t understand how religion still exists in 2016. In this modern age, we have computers, cars, internet, we have technology to see objects which are thousands of light years away from us, we have knowledge to figure out what something which happened billion years ago looked like from a piece of rock, we have recyclable Starbucks cups, yet people still believe there is a invisible man in the sky watching over everything.
Look, I’m not saying that the universe was not created by a intelligent being. Who knows what caused the Big Bang? Maybe some ultra-powerful high-intelligent super-being made the Big Bang out of a boredom and that’s how the universe happened. But that being sure wasn’t God, Allah, Visnu, Odin, Zeus or any other god which humans have made up throughout the millions of years.
Maybe because religion offers more than you recognize. Again, this feels like an ignorant statement. You don’t have to understand why it means something to someone else. The lack of appreciation for religion, even when you find it pointless, is folly. Religion has value, even if you don’t see it.
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There is absolutely 0 evidence to support the existence of any god(s). It is a ridiculous ancient notion and I honestly can’t comprehend how intelligent, rational people in the modern age can believe in an invisible man in the sky who created everything and a centuries old man who rounded up two of every animal on a boat and a dirt man and a rib woman and a man living in a whale. It’s absolutely ridiculous. I’m sorry if this offends anyone but it’s all really silly.
Depends on what you call evidence. Not offended by you, but again, this is an age-old argument that any religious person has already addressed, so you score no points for originality. Sorry. To me there is ample evidence.
https://www.mormon.org/faq/faith-in-god
God has provided many evidences of His existence. One of these is the testimony of His creations: “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork” (Psalms 19:1). Have you ever looked in awe at the night sky with its billions of stars? Or studied the intricate details of a leaf or flower? Or marveled at the miracle of a tiny new baby? These beautiful and complex creations didn’t come about by chance.
Or maybe they did.
That’s nice.
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darth_ender said:
This is why I hardly post anymore because I get sucked into conversations I don’t have time for. However, you seem to have an extremely ignorant view of what morals truly are. They are not universal, set in stone, or permanent. They are arbitrary based on cultural acceptance. What you believe you hold as the epitome of morality demonstrates your ignorance. Sadly, I have no more time to talk to you, and you don’t provide very intellectually stimulating conversation anyway, so I will have to allow others to carry on the fruitless effort of pointing out your fallacious and foolish argument.For the record, I have no problem with atheists. I respect so many of them and enjoy intelligent conversation. Sadly, this thread is lacking in that department at the moment from the atheist side. Bring back CP3S.
I apologize for not being more open to reprehensible viewpoints.
Actually you seem to be a subscriber to them. You tout your tolerance of others, then demonstrate that you lack it. Well thought out.
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Darth Lucas said:
But empirical evidence is not a subjective thing. I call evidence the same thing scientists do, which is in essence, something observable that supports the theory. I’m not trying to be original I’m just trying to ask questions and have a discussion.
You say “to me there is ample evidence” well, such as? I genuinely want to know. Again, I know I can come off as somewhat stand-offish at times. I don’t mean to. Just wanting to discuss.
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darth_ender said:
This is why I hardly post anymore because I get sucked into conversations I don’t have time for. However, you seem to have an extremely ignorant view of what morals truly are. They are not universal, set in stone, or permanent. They are arbitrary based on cultural acceptance. What you believe you hold as the epitome of morality demonstrates your ignorance. Sadly, I have no more time to talk to you, and you don’t provide very intellectually stimulating conversation anyway, so I will have to allow others to carry on the fruitless effort of pointing out your fallacious and foolish argument.For the record, I have no problem with atheists. I respect so many of them and enjoy intelligent conversation. Sadly, this thread is lacking in that department at the moment from the atheist side. Bring back CP3S.
I apologize for not being more open to reprehensible viewpoints.
Actually you seem to be a subscriber to them. You tout your tolerance of others, then demonstrate that you lack it. Well thought out.
Are you fucking kidding me? I am against women being oppressed, gay people being called abominations and anyone who is not a believer of Yahweh being killed and I have reprehensible viewpoints? Bitch how?