Re-evaluating Revenge of the Sith

I saw the Prequels when they first came out, and was mostly disappointed (for the usual reasons). I haven’t really watched them too much in the intervening 15 years.

To my surprise, Revenge of the Sith seems to be considered a masterpiece nowadays. Anecdotally, it seems like at least 2 out of 3 modern Star Wars fans are likely to consider it amazing, ranking it close or equal to The Empire Strikes Back in quality. Many fans rank it higher than the OT. This is pretty strange to me, because my opinions about Star Wars movie quality generally have aligned with majority fan consensus, e.g. my ranking of the OT is ESB, ANH, ROTJ (with ANH and ROTJ possibly interchangeable). So I thought I must have missed something about Revenge of the Sith. My hazy memories of it basically made it seem like a partially unwatchable CGI fest with an unsatisfying fall for Anakin. But since I now strangely appear to be in the minority with this opinion, I decided to re-watch it just to see if I totally misjudged it.

So I re-watched it and found… it’s not exactly as terrible as I remember, but not exactly great in any sense. I like the opening scenes with Anakin and Obi-Wan in the space battle over Coruscant and inside the ship. I feel like the action and banter between them in this scene should have been what we saw in the first two Prequels. Still… parts of this sequence are a bit weird. Palpatine is tied up in an evil-looking chair that’s supposed to remind us of the Emperor’s throne in ROTJ, but there’s no plot reason for him to be tied up in that chair. He’s a prisoner in an enemy vessel (at least he’s pretending to be) so why is he not locked up in a cell or something? Whatever. Then Anakin beheads a defenseless Dooku, which seems to want to signify that Anakin crossed a line - but it didn’t really land for me because it doesn’t really play into his later downfall. Maybe it’s supposed to show us that Anakin sees the Jedi as hypocrites when Mace Windu wants to kill a defenseless Palpatine. Or maybe it’s just that it activated Anakin’s dark side and made killing defenseless people easier for him, but he already killed a tribe of defenseless Tuskens in the last movie so I don’t know.

Anyway, the opening space battle and scenes aboard Grievous’ ship were overall pretty decent - and probably the best sequence in the Prequels, even if they contain some strange or uneven moments.

But the whole middle part of the movie then reminded me why I didn’t like Revenge of the Sith originally. The movie rapidly degrades into a series of over-the-top CGI action sequences. At one point we actually see Obi-Wan riding a giant lizard while fighting a cyborg in a uni-cycle with sparkling energy sticks. I mean it’s just insane - the whole sequence comes off as visual noise to me - it’s pretty much the archetypal example of “CGI action scene that looks like a video game”. There’s also a meaningless battle on Kashyyk that has no connection to the rest of the movie.

I remember Anakin’s fall being very sudden, but it wasn’t quite as sudden as I remember. In fact, when Palpatine first reveals he’s a Sith lord, Anakin just turns him over to the Jedi council, and apparently even wants to kill him. It’s only after Anakin (inadvertently) helps Palpatine kill Mace Windu that Anakin decides to go full Sith. Still, it does seem pretty sudden, considering that Anakin was just involved in fun, swash-buckling action and light-hearted banter with Obi-Wan, and now he’s willing to murder Jedi children.

But I’m not sure if I think his turn to evil is necessarily too sudden. It’s more like Anakin’s fall is too… incoherent. I mean Anakin is just all over the place. He was already unstable and psychotic in Episode 2 (he slaughtered a whole tribe). But then the opening scene in Episode 3 depicts him as a heroic, well-adjusted person. But then he kills Dooku, but then he feels bad about it, and then he saves Obi-Wan’s life. It’s just really hard to get a reading on Anakin by the time he’s bowing down to Palpatine. But it’s difficult to buy he would be willing to kill Jedi children at this stage.

Anyway, the Order-66 scenes are pretty cool though. The ending lightsaber battle really SHOULD be amazing, but I just didn’t feel like Anakin/Obi-Wan spent enough time together as good friends for it to have a significant emotional impact. But it’s still sad when Ewan McGregor breaks down in tears.

Overall, it’s not as bad as I remember - but I really can’t understand how so many people consider this a masterpiece on par with the OT. I’m envious, because I always wanted an Anakin Skywalker movie that I could love. The story itself is so compelling, but I just can’t get past all the flaws in the actual implementation. Regardless, it’s fascinating to me that mainstream consensus about this movie has changed so much. I pretty clearly remember back in 2005 or so, my opinion about this movie pretty much aligned with the majority fan consensus. It’s really interesting how ROTS is nowadays considered one of the best Star Wars movies - and also very hard for me to understand or explain.

Funny to read this. I consider ROTS to be considerably lesser than the OT. I just can’t put my finger on it. I think that the script just wasn’t polished enough. Lucas didn’t have any help on this film and I think it shows. He needed script help to make a good film. Someone to edit his work and curb his worst ideas. I definitely don’t consider ROTS to be a masterpiece. The best of the PT for me is TPM because I think it captured the right mood. I feel the script is polished. I know some people don’t like Jar Jar or some other characters, but those things have never bothered me.

I saw RotS in the theater as a kid. It was my first time being truly hyped on my way to a movie theater, and the whole experience was very memorable for me, and I’m glad I got to see the movie that way.

But it’s not a very good movie. The writing is sloppy, and the story is often rushed and overstuffed. I enjoy the hell out of it. But the sentiment shared by a lot of Gen Z’ers that RotS is some sort of magnificent work of fiction just isn’t backed up by reality. The film has become overrated, at least on places like Reddit and in the Star Wars fandom, in general.

The movie has the big emotional payoffs that everyone had been anticipating, and it’s a more straightforward story than the other two prequels, so for a lot of people, that puts it way above the other two. But I’m not so sure about that now. In fact, you could definitely argue that TPM is the better made film, overall.

I read the novelization of RotS, and it was fantastic. Much better than the movie it’s based on. It made me realize that RotS is like the embryo of a great film, but it simply didn’t get enough time in the revision stage. Time that it badly needed.

ROTS’ novelization is the best way to experience it’s story. Having the space of a novel allows the rushed nature of the movie to dissipate.

Haarspalter said:

I think a lot of goodwill towards ROTS comes from the fans which grew up with the Clone Wars animated series.

I’m a fan of the clone wars series, and yes, it gives necessary context to the PT as a whole and the characters. As much as I like the series though, it wouldn’t be needed if the PT was written better

The lightsaber dual should have been more psychological like Empire and Jedi. Instead it was all flash of spinning blades of light. I’ve never been more let down by a lightsaber duel other than in the Disney movies.

They never really connect, you never believe in the action of what is going on the way you did in Empire. Videogame physics, cgi nonsense. Style over substance.

The lightsabers should have heft and weight and be used with both hands.

I thoroughly enjoyed the lightsaber duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin on Mustafar and still do to this day.

What’s wrong with loosening up and enjoying some spectacle? This is an adventure after all, not some psychological thriller.

Aside from an unnecessary twirl here and there, the choreography for the fight holds up really well. My main issue with it is that it becomes too focused on the volatile environment they’re fighting in and not enough on what’s going on between the characters, which is what should have been center stage for a fight like this.

I remember a story I heard about how Richard Marquand wanted the duel in RotJ to be bigger and more elaborate than the one in Empire, but George told him that wasn’t necessary. Ultimately, the actual sword swinging should be secondary to the character interaction.

fmalover said:

I thoroughly enjoyed the lightsaber duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin on Mustafar and still do to this day.

What’s wrong with loosening up and enjoying some spectacle? This is an adventure after all, not some psychological thriller.

Well a spectacle without any feeling to back it up is a boring thing. What may have been “neat” for 2005 audience’s grows stale over time.

Haarspalter said:

I think a lot of goodwill towards ROTS comes from the fans which grew up with the Clone Wars animated series.

I hear this a lot, but I don’t think it’s the case. Most people just really enjoy the movie regardless of the EU. Anecdotally I know more people that like the movie better than the show than the other way around.

Omni said:

Haarspalter said:

I think a lot of goodwill towards ROTS comes from the fans which grew up with the Clone Wars animated series.

I hear this a lot, but I don’t think it’s the case. Most people just really enjoy the movie regardless of the EU. Anecdotally I know more people that like the movie better than the show than the other way around.

I’m the opposite - the show made me like the movie even less!

I know that a bullet may or may not have been dodged by having David Lynch not direct Return of the Jedi, however I think that Lost Highway is the Revenge of the Sith that we never got.

Mystery Man = Palps
Fred Madison/Pete Dayton = Anakin
Alice Wakefield = Padme Amidala
Mr. Eddy = Mace Windu
Phil = Obi Wan

Basically Obi Wan and Anakin fight together in the Clone Wars but the whole mentor/mentee thing is off of the table, maybe Anakin is past all that.

I had this epiphany last night and I don’t think I’ll ever be able to watch Lost Highway the same way again.

I remember a story I heard about how Richard Marquand wanted the duel in RotJ to be bigger and more elaborate than the one in Empire, but George told him that wasn’t necessary. Ultimately, the actual sword swinging should be secondary to the character interaction.

I finally found that Richard Marquand quote I was thinking of.

"There was a feeling I had that I would like the (Jedi lightsaber duel between Luke and Vader) to be bigger than the fight in Empire. And then George said that it doesn’t have to be bigger, because basically it can’t be. George is very blunt. He said, ‘It’s just a couple of guys banging sticks against each other. Don’t worry about that. It is bigger because of what is going on in their heads. That is what makes it bigger.’

I don’t really know how to reconcile this with George’s “bigger is better” attitude by the time of RotS.

Yeah. A lot of people loving the prequels now comes from:
playing video games with Clone Wars stuff in it
watching the Clone Wars show
laughing at funny lines of dialogue and memes
contrarian hot takes from people about how they’re “secretly genius”

It’s not because of the movies themselves, it’s because they like the shared experience of talking about them, talking about how they watched them as kids, or reading/playing/watching extra material surrounding them. Even then, most of their positive memories are about the ROTS payoff and not the first two.

With that said I do have a lot of fun with Revenge of the Sith and I like watching it. There are lots of little things I would adjust, which have been largely addressed with fan edits like on this site. But it’s not unsalvageable like Attack of the Clones or the sequel trilogy. It has some really good things in it, especially Obi Wan and Palpatine.

I actually prefer watching it as a standalone movie ignoring the other two, because then all the issues I have with AotC go away as well.

Servii said:

I remember a story I heard about how Richard Marquand wanted the duel in RotJ to be bigger and more elaborate than the one in Empire, but George told him that wasn’t necessary. Ultimately, the actual sword swinging should be secondary to the character interaction.

I finally found that Richard Marquand quote I was thinking of.

"There was a feeling I had that I would like the (Jedi lightsaber duel between Luke and Vader) to be bigger than the fight in Empire. And then George said that it doesn’t have to be bigger, because basically it can’t be. George is very blunt. He said, ‘It’s just a couple of guys banging sticks against each other. Don’t worry about that. It is bigger because of what is going on in their heads. That is what makes it bigger.’

I don’t really know how to reconcile this with George’s “bigger is better” attitude by the time of RotS.

I would say the duel in ROTJ is “bigger” than the one in ESB - for some definition of “bigger” I guess. It’s “bigger” in the sense that it’s a bit more sophisticated, choreography-wise, since Luke is a more advanced lightsaber user than he was in ESB. There’s more going on - he’s now fighting his father while at the same time trying to save his father, while the Emperor manipulates them both. Whereas, in ESB Luke was basically just fighting a bad guy that murdered his father. There’s a lot more going on psychologically AND physically in the ROTJ battle.

The ROTS battle had the potential to be incredible. Two former-friends and brothers in arms fighting each other to the death. The drama practically writes itself. But somehow it STILL didn’t work, mainly because (A) Anakin and Obi-Wan never actually seemed like good friends, apart from the opening sequence in ROTS, and (B) the action was so over the top; suspension of disbelief is broken long before they start hopping on floating platforms above a pit of lava like Mario and Luigi. However, the ending sequence where Anakin is dismembered is very good, in isolation.

George’s “bigger is better” attitude is apparent throughout the Prequels, where we see these huge CGI land/space battles with countless spaceships and vehicles. I think he adopted this attitude when he realized that CGI enabled him to basically do whatever he wanted. Somehow he didn’t see any problem with this, nor did he seem to notice that CGI often looks worse than physical models if not used correctly. I think Lucas always prioritized his reputation and the reputation of Industrial Light & Magic as a visual F/X pioneer. He certainly earned that reputation with the Original trilogy in the 70s and 80s. And Phantom Menace was ground-breaking in terms of VFX in many ways as well. But I think by the time of ROTS, the VFX efforts were producing diminishing returns at the expense of the story and quality of the movies.

The ROTS duel was just 10 minutes of them waving their lightsabers around while the CGI scenery changed behind them. Not very compelling at all really.