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Ranking the Star Wars films — Page 33

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Whenever my TFA copy comes in the mail (probably tomorrow) I’ll have to reevaluate my ranking. I’ve been on the fence about TFA over ROTJ since last I watched TFA.

As it stands now:
SW(ANH)/ESB - A+
(Which one of those is truly higher changes almost every time I think about it, so I usually avoid choosing)
TFA - A
ROTJ - A-
ROTS - D
TPM - D-
AOTC - F

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darthrush said:

That’s why I made it clear that within the constraints of THEIR story CG Yoda was needed. If Yoda We’re too not ever pull out his saber and do flips all over the place then a puppet Yoda would have been better. But a lot better looking puppet than the one in TPM. It looked terrible and just so ugh…

No, I honestly think it still would have been better if he was puppet and only CGI in the necessary places.

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Well lads, I may as well offer my opinion. I can’t remember who did it earlier in this thread, but someone rated them via balls, which I liked. So here is mine:

ANH - 94 balls
ESB - 93 balls
ROJ - 87 balls
TFA - 74 balls
AOTC - 66 balls
TPM - 63 balls
ROTS - 55 balls

Explanations:

ANH and ESB are basically a toss-up. I’ll put it this way: I enjoy ANH more, but I recognize ESB is the better film.

ROJ: Man, ROJ gets way underrated here. I honestly think it rocks - on some days I can convince myself that I enjoy it the most out of the originals (again, not say is better, but enjoy more). The amount of dislike has always puzzled me a bit. It had its weak points, but not enough to justify this dislike it gets.

TFA: And on that note, man, TFA gets both… under and overrated? Like, it’s hard to be someone who takes the middle ground on it. I will start with saying that I think people who say it is as good as or better than ROJ are crazy (no offense). That comparison isn’t close to me. But it certainly didn’t suck - it was far, far too derivative (by far the most valid and biggest complaint), but at least it didn’t suck while it was being derivative. My closing thought will be this: In my mind, I consider the Thrawn Trilogy to be the true successor to the original trilogy. And honestly? That disappoints me. I expected more of the film and out of Abrams. So even though it didn’t suck, it is still on the disappointment side for me.

The Prequels:

To start with, I don’t dislike them nearly as much as people here. They were the Star Wars that I grew up with. Everyone who got to grow up with the originals, that’s awesome and I’m jealous, but being a kid and growing up with the prequels was pretty damn awesome too. That nostalgia runs DEEP (like in my blood deep), and it makes me a little sad to see all the vitriol directed at such an integral part of my childhood. Yes, they are flawed, but damn, they’re not as bad as this collective forum would lead you to believe. Blasphemous opinion coming in hot: They are more Star Wars to me than TFA is.

For specifics, yes, I like AOTC the best, sue me. I have a huge soft spot for that movie. TPM had too many of the ‘immature’ moments to be the best prequel, and ROTS… Sigh. ROTS lost me simply because I could not find Anakin’s fall to the Dark Side to be realistic. It just happened too fast for me. That really stings, because that was kind of the draw of the prequel trilogy, to see how Anakin fell.

Well, I’m sure many people will disagree, but that’s both the point and the beauty of the forum, to generate discussion. On a final note, I recently watched Hal9000’s fan edits of the prequels, and let me just say he killed it. ‘Hot take’ number whatever, but I would rate his AOTC fan edit (The Approaching Storm) as an 80 on my scale. I loved it - definitely more than TFA.

May the Force be with you.

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 (Edited)

The reason ROTJ get’s flack is because of the Ewoks who kill the pacing and diminish the Empire due to them being a big reason in why they fall. Also Leia being Luke’s sister is universe shrinking but with the “I’ve always known” line makes their whole history almost nauseating. Furthermore they just made them siblings in order to resolve the love triangle so it doesn’t feel like a natural part of the story but rather a cop out. Luke’s temptation should have been a lot more than Palpatine saying “Your friends are going to die” a million and one times. And as shitty as SKB was Death Star 2.0 was a more overt rehash than that one. Lastly and most importantly imo the destruction of the Death Star and the loss of Vader and Palpatine shouldn’t have been the end of the war. With all the other ships, troops and Imperial Officers the war would have realistically gone on for years to come. But all that is thrown out of the window for a phony fairy tale ending.

EDIT:

Not saying it’s a bad film; it’s pretty good but it was a bad way to end the trilogy. Especially if it had been the last film in the saga.

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SS4DarthPayne said:

And honestly?

Is this an actual question? 😉

The Prequels:

To start with, I don’t dislike them nearly as much as people here. They were the Star Wars that I grew up with. Everyone who got to grow up with the originals, that’s awesome and I’m jealous, but being a kid and growing up with the prequels was pretty damn awesome too. That nostalgia runs DEEP (like in my blood deep), and it makes me a little sad to see all the vitriol directed at such an integral part of my childhood. Yes, they are flawed, but damn, they’re not as bad as this collective forum would lead you to believe. Blasphemous opinion coming in hot: They are more Star Wars to me than TFA is.

I know where you’re coming from, as I too grew up with the PT. The one thing that I have to disagree with, is that even though I have glorious nostalgia for TPM, and almost as much nostalgia for AOTC, I still really hate them, because they are terrible films. I also grew up (mostly) with the 2004 DVD versions of the OT, and I probably enjoyed the prequels more than those as a young-en too. I have zero nostalgia for ROTS, because I didn’t see it until I was like 10 years old, and I was really disappointed in it. When I got older, and continued watching TPM and AOTC, I felt less of a connection as more time went on. I also began discovering a new love for the original versions of the OT (which I first watched on a Faces VHS set that’s still on my shelf), and I began disliking a lot more things about the PT. Then, I began to lose a little bit of my liking for ROTJ too, but not enough to matter a great deal. All in all, I’m not sure I would say they’re “more Star Wars” to me, but I definitely would rather rewatch TPM for nostalgia than rewatch TFA for nothing.

Well, that was a long paragraph 😄.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

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Lord Haseo said:

The reason ROTJ get’s flack is because of the Ewoks who kill the pacing and diminish the Empire due to them being a big reason in why they fall. Also Leia being Luke’s sister is universe shrinking but with the “I’ve always known” line makes their whole history almost nauseating. Furthermore they just made them siblings in order to resolve the love triangle so it doesn’t feel like a natural part of the story but rather a cop out. Luke’s temptation should have been a lot more than Palpatine saying “Your friends are going to die” a million and one times. And as shitty as SKB was Death Star 2.0 was a more overt rehash than that one. Lastly and most importantly imo the destruction of the Death Star and the loss of Vader and Palpatine shouldn’t have been the end of the war. With all the other ships, troops and Imperial Officers the war would have realistically gone on for years to come. But all that is thtown out of the window for a phony fairy tale ending.

EDIT:

Not saying it’s a bad film; it’s pretty good but it was a bad way to end the trilogy. Especially if it had been the last film in the saga.

Well doesn’t TFA reveal the war did continue? This particular problem only arises to some degree with the special edition ending.

TV’s Frink said:

I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.

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SS4DarthPayne said:

TFA: And on that note, man, TFA gets both… under and overrated? Like, it’s hard to be someone who takes the middle ground on it. I will start with saying that I think people who say it is as good as or better than ROJ are crazy (no offense). That comparison isn’t close to me.

I think many people here who say it’s close or better than Jedi wouldn’t give TFA a much higher score than you did, they would just give Jedi a much lower score.
Jedi constantly goes from ups to downs; Jabba’s palace - silly musical number (even in the original version) - Sarlacc pit action - boring briefing scene - speeder bike chase - Ewok village - Grand finale; while TFA is much more consistent overall, but may lack a scene with the impact of Vader’s redemption. Personally, I enjoy a “solid-but-not-great” movie a bit more than a movie that makes me constantly think “how could they waste such a potential?”.

Ceci n’est pas une signature.

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But what if I think they’re both great (and TFA is still better)?

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Frank your Majesty said:
I think many people here who say it’s close or better than Jedi wouldn’t give TFA a much higher score than you did, they would just give Jedi a much lower score.

I can attest to this having TFA at an 8.2 and ROTJ at a 7.8

They’re still in the same ballpark

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 (Edited)

I give ROTJ a B and TFA a B+ mostly because of the overall energy level. The ROTJ script doesn’t really give anyone but Luke and the Emperor much to do, and consequently a lot of the other actors sort of phone it in. In TFA, everyone’s totally into it and it shows. That might not be enough for the crowd that’s constantly pissing and moaning about the unclear political situation (a view towards which I’m sympathetic) and Kylo Ren’s unsuitability as a villain (a view I think is completely bogus), but I’ve personally always cared more about the tone of these movies than anything else, and TFA delivered on the wide-eyed enthusiasm front just a bit more than ROTJ.

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1 - ESB
2 - ANH
3 - ROTJ
4 - TFA
5-18 - Fan edits
19-25 - Youtube children reaction videos to the OT
26 - Hardware Wars
27-33 - Fan films
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83 - ROTS
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104 - TPM
105 - AOTC

Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

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 (Edited)

I don’t mind the existence of Ewoks, I really don’t even mind much that their victory is somewhat implausible. I understand why someone wouldn’t like them, but I never minded them. The problem is that too much focus is on them, and the scenes on Endor are interspersed between much better scenes (Space Battle, Final Duel). The scenes don’t flow well into one another. If the Endor scenes were more brief, and they found a way to include them without jarring tonal shifts, it would be right up there with SW(ANH) and ESB.

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TV’s Frink said:

Wait, so your list wasn’t an April Fools joke?

No, it was no joke.

I know I am in a minority around here, but to me the PT are pretty good. They could have been much better and some the the issues between the PT and OT could have been worked out if Lucas had spent some more time developing the PT back in the 80’s when he was working on the OT. Leia’s mother living in hiding for 2 years really doesn’t make much sense and it wouldn’t have given Leia any additional memories of her. She would have had to live until Luke and Leia were about 3 or 4 for any sense of her to really remain (just find someone who lost a parent at 2 and see if they have any recollections at all - it isn’t normal). Lucas biggest gaff was Obi-wan’s explanation of Vader/Anakin in ANH and how that so conflicted with the Luke/Vader connection. From the name and the lightsaber design you can tell that is what Lucas was thinking (the Vader and Anakin sabers are so similar and Darth Vader means Dark Father in Dutch) and a brilliant bit of acting by Alec Guinness gives the impression that there is more the story than what he said in his hut, but it still is a stumbling block in the story that most of us have just accepted. The other seeming story inconsistencies between the OT and PT are really no worse than that.

And as for the acting in the PT. Jake and Hayden get a bad wrap, but I think they were acting at GL’s direction in how they delivered their lines. If you say their lines like Darth Vader their line delivery amazingly matches James Earl Jones delivery, but without that voice he comes off as immature and I think that was the point. I don’t think some of these things were accidents. GL seemed to have a very specific story and way of telling it in mind with the PT and I see many similarities to more classic Hollywood (even down to the very art deco art design) than to the 50’s and 60’s movies that inspired the OT. Even down to how the love story played out between Anakin and Padme.

I think it all comes down to our individual perspectives. I really don’t blame anyone for hating the PT. They really could have been much better but I don’t think that was the story GL wanted to tell. I think I see what he did and intended and from my perspective that makes the PT pretty enjoyable to watch. To me it is Star Wars and it is much better than most movies already. Nowhere near as good as the OT or the OT SE, but those are incredible movies and it is hard to recreate that magic again. I think that Abrams came close, but missed on several levels. He nailed the art direction and characters and casting, but the story has a limp and never quite captures that magic. His way of telling stories I think is at fault because Lost, Star Trek, and Star Trek Into Darkness all share the same faults as The Force Awakens. Though TFA shows fewer faults than those others they are similar.

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But the PT films are objectively bad on pretty much every level.

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suspiciouscoffee said:

I don’t mind the existence of Ewoks, I really don’t even mind much that their victory is somewhat implausible. I understand why someone wouldn’t like them, but I never minded them. The problem is that too much focus is on them, and the scenes on Endor are interspersed between much better scenes (Space Battle, Final Duel). The scenes don’t flow well into one another. If the Endor scenes were more brief, and they found a way to include them without jarring tonal shifts, it would be right up there with SW(ANH) and ESB.

In my edit, the Ewoks are less cute. During the battle this is how it plays out. The reason I put this in this thread is because it highlights exactly what makes ROTJ lack enough of a punch in its third act.

-There’s an outbreak. The Ewoks pop up and start shooting arrows
-Everyone scrambles, Leia shoots a trooper, Han throws one over his back
-they retreat to the bunker, the empire backs off too for a shootout
-Leia needs R2 desperately
-we cut to the Ewoks pitiful catapults get blown apart as they run away. An ATST blows down tree after tree then we cut to space battle ravaging outside the moon.

A little bit later…
-Lando has “gotta give him more time” (Han)
-we cut to Endor. No Ewoks trample on storm troopers from behind. C3PO’s “were coommming” is cut. We jump straight into the action minus the Ewoks.
-R2 takes a hit. Han tries to rewrite it himself.

A little bit later…

-no Tarzan yell from chewie
-heavily cut the scene where they take over ATST.
-the “I love u” “I know” callback is gone.

All of these cuts leave you with a much more focused, contained and more intense finale where you don’t spend as much time with the Ewoks on Endor and when you do its just shown as a desperate battle.

Return of the Jedi: Remastered

Lord of the Rings: The Darth Rush Definitives

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TV’s Frink said:

But the PT films are objectively bad on pretty much every level.

Then mind explaining to me how most of the stuff that people complain about is totally subjective then? Midiclorians,the dialogue,the characters,the use of more then one or two jedies.

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darthrush said:

In all honesty films are completely 100% subjective. But most people enjoy good dialogue, a captivating story, and overall an enjoyable experience.

I have heard from somebody that apparently things such as plot holes and lack of character development can be considered objectively bad. However far from all complains towards the PT have anything to do with that(especialy if you don’t consider continuity between films to really be something that should be taken into consideration since movies should be able to stand on their own).

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Ghibili said:

TV’s Frink said:

But the PT films are objectively bad on pretty much every level.

Then mind explaining to me how most of the stuff that people complain about is totally subjective then?

No thanks. I’ve found it’s pointless to explain it to anyone who doesn’t already understand it.

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TV’s Frink said:

But the PT films are objectively bad on pretty much every level.

Oooooh… I’m assuming this is a serious statement? I would have to disagree here. Films are inherently subjective. With that being said, I do agree that, yes, at a point we can make subjective calls on them. For example, it is my belief that we can objectively call The Godfather a better film than Gigli. I think a statement like that is fine.

But saying the prequels are objectively bad on pretty much every level? I think that’s too strong and too broad of a statement to fly. It’s not clear enough to make that sort of blanket call.

May the Force be with you.

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 (Edited)

Surely there is some level where they objectively succeeded, or else it wouldn’t have as many fans as it does. I, however, do not have the patience to rewatch any of them to find that level.

I mean, I tried watching AOTC a while back because I thought it would bore me to sleep and I was having trouble sleeping. Instead, it kept me awake as I kept yelling at the TV because of how horrid everything was.

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ray_afraid said:

I’ve said it before, and I’m buzzed enough to say it again…
This place was way better before all these PT fans showed up.

Try to build a wall ?