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Raiders of the lost ark - bluray and colour timing changes

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To take it away from the terminator thread

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I'll chime in to say I actually prefer the way Raiders looks on Blu Ray as opposed to previous DVD and HD broadcasts.

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djchaseb said:

I'll chime in to say I actually prefer the way Raiders looks on Blu Ray as opposed to previous DVD and HD broadcasts.

Why? Any reason, or just a preference?

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I'll say it one last time since this is a new thread.

I think the blu-ray was an attempt to digitally aproach the original color timing look. I base this on various trailers, and the photos we saw of the 35mm print in the ebay thread.

I don't think it was perfectly accurate, but considering color timing tends to vary somewhat from print to print I don't think it's a big deal. Anyone touting the dvd as perfectly correct seems to be in denial.

Also if you see it in action on an actual tv moving, it's not nearly as yellow tinted looking as a single screenshot would have you believe.

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I prefer the more yellow / gold tint that the Blu has as opposed to the other versions.  Regardless of what's correct, just looks good to my eyes.

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djchaseb said:

I prefer the more yellow / gold tint that the Blu has as opposed to the other versions.  Regardless of what's correct, just looks good to my eyes.

Dvd seems much too cold in a lot of places, everything seems slightly blue. Which is odd considering most of the movie is in a desert.

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 (Edited)

It was green when I saw it in the late 90's and as far as i am aware the Nazi's never did an orange version of their flag

 

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/18041

 

Also there is some DNR mostly on the effects shots but this shot looks like ass

 

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/18040

And that is proof that that transfer can do warm

And if people are going with the HDTV is wrong argument, then why were Doom and Raiders left alone on the Blu-ray?

Same master set from Laser Pacific, same colour timing.

Raiders was changed to match Crystal Skull.

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 (Edited)

First of all, people don't have great memory when it comes to color. So I'm not accepting any "but I remember it looking like x" as a reference.

Orange flag can be explained as "not perfectly correct". Like I said I think they tried to aproximate the look of the prints, not match it 100% exactly. It can stil be more correct with a slightly orange flag. (how do you know the flag wasn't orange in the original run anyway? And don't tell me it's not the color the flags are in real life, movies rarely ever look exactly like real life color wise.)

I think the sun shot was actually in the 35mm ebay auction. Can someone post those pics for comparison? The ebay auction is down.

 

edit: maybe not "rarely" but slight color changes to movies (e.g. color timing) is what I meant.

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 (Edited)

I  agree the DVNR on Raiders is crap.  Was it like that in the Imax version? I saw crystal skull in the theater and the print i saw was sharper than the BD.  They used DVNR on the BD.


Why pay for a 4k restore of the negative of ROTLA only to ruin it by using digital degraining software. 

The BD of Last Crusade is faithful to the theatrical. The original was soft looking but they had to use dvnr and edge enhancement.   It boggles the mind. Other than the optical sequences it was never grain heavy, DVNR is not needed or wanted.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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 (Edited)

jero32 said:

First of all, people don't have great memory when it comes to color. So I'm not accepting any "but I remember it looking like x" as a reference.

Orange flag can be explained as "not perfectly correct". Like I said I think they tried to aproximate the look of the prints, not match it 100% exactly. It can stil be more correct with a slightly orange flag. (how do you know the flag wasn't orange in the original run anyway? And don't tell me it's not the color the flags are in real life, movies rarely ever look exactly like real life color wise.)

I think the sun shot was actually in the 35mm ebay auction. Can someone post those pics for comparison? The ebay auction is down.

 

edit: maybe not "rarely" but slight color changes to movies (e.g. color timing) is what I meant.

So the transfer that they are red in like real life is wrong, and the one they are orange in is right as its a movie?

Also don't make an over generalisation when it comes to people and their memory of colour.

http://moviestuff.ecrater.com.au/p/15383345/raiders-of-the-lost-ark-harrison#

flag

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/18094

Yeah no thanks for the new transfer, you can keep it

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Yeah I can't say the BD looks perfect, just better to me than the DVD or HDTV.  But that's just personal preferences.  I found that the faces were many times too red in the previous versions.

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jero32 said:

I'm not saying it's a 100% correct. I'm saying that it could've been though.

Found the theatrical trailer, but I'm not sure if its from the blu-ray (seems pretty untouched color wise though)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZQW0bUbQMw&feature=player_detailpage#t=41s Heres the sun shot, seems more accurate to the bluray color wise.

Granted its not 100% reliable.

 

That looks like VHS level colour space, hardly reliable 

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 (Edited)

So its just a massive coincidence that the sun shot looks the same in both of those? (provided no altering was done on the trailer)

 

edit: those being the trailer and the blu-ray of course.

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jero32 said:

So its just a massive coincidence that the sun shot looks the same in both of those? (provided no altering was done on the trailer)

 

edit: those being the trailer and the blu-ray of course.

 

The quality on that, I could say my mum played indy and you would hard pressed to prove me wrong

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So...when they did the colors on the blu-ray, they just happend to make them exactly like a (I admit, low quality) trailer.

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 (Edited)

des

 

Cool blue in the middle of the desert? surely not! and that trailer is proof of nothing, in a higher res and correct colour space it stands equal chance of looking like either shot.

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jero32 said:

djchaseb said:

I prefer the more yellow / gold tint that the Blu has as opposed to the other versions.  Regardless of what's correct, just looks good to my eyes.

Dvd seems much too cold in a lot of places, everything seems slightly blue. Which is odd considering most of the movie is in a desert.

Blue shift is a Lowry trademark of sorts.  Its on Star Wars, James Bond, Indiana Jones, Star Trek.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Lowry did not do the Wowow version

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dvdmike said:

Lowry did not do the Wowow version

Never claimed they did responding to the comment on the DVD colors.

I too would like the option of having the WOWWOW version on BD, but Spielberg wanted what is on there.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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My bad, thought you were talking about the wowow.

Weird he thought Doom, and Crusade were ok tho

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 (Edited)

That 35mm shot actually is counter evidence to what I said, so kudos for posting it. (sorry but in the other thread there was a lot of "I remember")
I'm stil not entirely convinced though, the scan might have been made with a modern projector bulb, known to be much cooler than older bulbs. (also another reason color timing might differ from showing to showing)

We should really just aquire a 16mm or something and put this to rest.

 

edit: I got sent some of the 35mm photos. Before you mention it, I'm only using these as a light reference. The quality is about that of a potato, but it seems the sunset shot does look more like the wowow version. However theres also some slightly more orange nazi flag in there, so it's hard to tell.

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dvdmike said:

My bad, thought you were talking about the wowow.

Weird he thought Doom, and Crusade were ok tho

There is that or that Lucasfilm or Paramount did not want to spend the money on extensive restorations of the prequel and first sequel.

When it cost them nothing to use an already available HD transfer.

Seriously if it was up to GL we probably would have gotten the dodgy Lowry masters on BD.

I've seen their HD version of Raiders you think the BD is degrained you have not seen the lowry level of degrain destruction.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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 (Edited)

jero32 said:

That 35mm shot actually is counter evidence to what I said, so kudos for posting it. (sorry but in the other thread there was a lot of "I remember")
I'm stil not entirely convinced though, the scan might have been made with a modern projector bulb, known to be much cooler than older bulbs. (also another reason color timing might differ from showing to showing)

We should really just aquire a 16mm or something and put this to rest.

 

That would be ideal, or even better some frames from one of the 70mm blow ups

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 (Edited)

Here we go: (PLEASE CONSIDER A MINOR REFERENCE ONLY, QUALITY IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO MAKE A 100% RIGHT CONCLUSION.)

http://imgur.com/AFYmF2v

http://imgur.com/yVrRrIr

http://imgur.com/uwaLjmO

http://imgur.com/uqXdb4a

http://imgur.com/4YtiCPY

http://imgur.com/2er2GzL

http://imgur.com/4AGDHQ0

http://imgur.com/fMWqgIC

http://imgur.com/IMdgK6t

http://imgur.com/ivghYoc

http://imgur.com/2ZbIGXf

As you can see the pictures suggest a somewhat warm picture. Due to the quality we can draw no 100% right conclusion. I stil think however that the bluray was meant to mimmick the 35mm with a warmer (as in an 80's) bulb used to project it.

Edit: pictures provided by Harmy, had to check if he was ok with me mentioning that.