Looks to have the same low contrast and boosted gamma as a lot of transfers of that vintage. It’s a major shock seeing 80s video transfers again now, especially knowing that at one time, this is what these movies “looked like” to kids born in the 80s (of which I was on the tail end).
Here’s what that same comparison looks like if we keep the laserdisc colors, but match the contrast and gamma of the WOWOW.
Bluray:
WOWOW:
Laserdisc:
WOWOW matched to laserdisc colors with WOWOW gamma and contrast (with color matching software):
Here’s a comparison for another frame.
Bluray:
WOWOW:
Laserdisc:
WOWOW matched to laserdisc (with color matching software):
WOWOW matched to laserdisc colors with WOWOW gamma and contrast (with color matching software):
This strikingly matches the Blu-ray colors.
Here’s what seems to be an unfaded re release trailer for Raiders of the Lost Ark:
Seeing the trailer has convinced me, that Raiders really needs a shot by shot regrading. However, to do this I need a reference. Since there are no prints available, the early laserdisc releases seem like a reasonable starting point, using the WOWOW as the source, since it has the most detail, and the least issues.
The process will be to first match the WOWOW to the laserdisc, and then correct the gamma, and contrast. The first tests indicate the colors will be quite different from both the bluray, and the WOWOW.
Bluray:
WOWOW:
Laserdisc:
WOWOW matched to laserdisc:
WOWOW matched to laserdisc with adjusted gamma and contrast:
I will run a test first creating a video based on a clip I found of the early shots of the 1984 laserdisc, and if that looks good, figure out how to obtain a digital copy of the entire film on laserdisc.
Here’s some more evidence that the bar fight scene originally was not red shifted, even in early home video releases. Here’s part of the scene from a vhs rip, that clearly shows no red, but a pretty neutral gray:
Okay, I’ve ordered a Raiders laserdisc, and found a company that will transfer it to dvd. So I guess this is really happening.
It’s no longer going to be a 35 mm regrade per se, since I would need a 35 mm print for that, but at least it won’t be revisionist either, like the bluray and to a lesser extend to WOWOW.
Okay, I’ve ordered a Raiders laserdisc, and found a company that will transfer it to dvd.
What company is this? I might want to do the same in the future.
Seeking only the most natural looking colors for Star Wars '77
It’s a company in the Netherlands, where I live, but there’s also one in Canada that I found using google.
The difference between the bluray/WOWOW and the VHS colors for the bar fight scene is stunning.
VHS:
WOWOW:
WOWOW matched to VHS:
VHS:
WOWOW:
WOWOW matched to VHS:
So, I’m new to this particular discussion, but since you’ve got the Laserdisc… and chance of trying to work in a snake reflection?
I think this is purely a regrade.
Yeah, I figured it was a longshot.
Regarding the WOWOW adjusted to match the VHS, I just wanted to mention that I ran that image through Photoshop’s auto color filter (to remove the blue) plus a saturation boost and then it looked like it fit right in with those WOWOW shots that didn’t have the red tint you posted on the previous page.
The VHS clip does look too blue, but if that is compensated for, it looks very much like what I saw on the old print.
I wonder when the red tint was introduced, and for what reason. Most new versions seem to consistently have it (it’s only a matter of degree), so it must have been a deliberate change. But why? Is it to give the scene a feeling of heat, due to the presence of fire? That’s the only thing I can really think of.
The VHS clip does look too blue, but if that is compensated for, it looks very much like what I saw on the old print.
I wonder when the red tint was introduced, and for what reason. Most new versions seem to consistently have it (it’s only a matter of degree), so it must have been a deliberate change. But why? Is it to give the scene a feeling of heat, due to the presence of fire? That’s the only thing I can really think of.
Agreed it was likely to draw attention to the fire, maybe for the sense of warmth, but maybe also for a better time of day cue. Cool interior lighting could be any time, warm lighting is usually more of a late night cue. You never know, maybe it was a filter that they had intended for the scene and forgot for some reason. Either way, it’s good to have some examples of what it looked like before.
Yeah, I figured it was a longshot.
Regarding the WOWOW adjusted to match the VHS, I just wanted to mention that I ran that image through Photoshop’s auto color filter (to remove the blue) plus a saturation boost and then it looked like it fit right in with those WOWOW shots that didn’t have the red tint you posted on the previous page.
Even those shots have been red shifted to some extend if you compare it to the unfaded re release trailer I posted a few days ago, although not as much as the bluray.
35 mm trailer:
WOWOW:
WOWOW matched to trailer:
Can you show a comparison with the VHS for the above shot?
Can you show a comparison with the VHS for the above shot?
The VHS clip sadly does not include this frame.
Didn’t the Bluray restore certain elements that were “fixed” in earlier releases such as the WOWOW? I’m talking about things like the matte lines around the sea-plane. If so then it would be better to use the Bluray as the source for a regrade.
George creates Star Wars.
Star Wars creates fans.
George destroys Star Wars.
Fans destroy George.
Fans create Star Wars.
Both Jurassic Park 3D and Raiders BD has the same colour grading with a red tint. This is because they wanted to match the projected image of a 35mm release print and the original warm photochemical timing. However, I think they went overboard with the red tone. The HDTV source if it’s warmed slightly and shifted a bit to the green side will perhaps closely match the print colours, based on the 35mm stills I saw here. Again, the colours on a print look different when projected with the proper bulb brightness. So, I don’t think it’d have looked as red as the BD has it.
Didn’t the Bluray restore certain elements that were “fixed” in earlier releases such as the WOWOW? I’m talking about things like the matte lines around the sea-plane. If so then it would be better to use the Bluray as the source for a regrade.
Yes, certain changes were reversed for the bluray, but other things were changed in stead, like adding a light above Indy and Marion when the arc was opened. On the whole the WOWOW has more detail, and less black crush, and blown out whites, so the WOWOW is the better candidate for a regrade. However, since we have both available, I will go for the best of both worlds. In principle the WOWOW will be the main source, but I will use the bluray for those scenes that had been digitally altered to create the master used for the WOWOW.
Both Jurassic Park 3D and Raiders BD has the same colour grading with a red tint. This is because they wanted to match the projected image of a 35mm release print and the original warm photochemical timing. However, I think they went overboard with the red tone. The HDTV source if it’s warmed slightly and shifted a bit to the green side will perhaps closely match the print colours, based on the 35mm stills I saw here. Again, the colours on a print look different when projected with the proper bulb brightness. So, I don’t think it’d have looked as red as the BD has it.
The thing is that the bluray is shifted towards orange on the whole, but the bar fight scenes take the red shift to a whole other level, that cannot be explained by a slightly warmer tone. This probably is a delibirate artistic choice, and it clearly contradicts the statements by Paramount, that claim the bluray has the theatrical color timing, which in fact has more of a red shift in this scene than the WOWOW.
Just to clarify, that VHS clip is actually a recording from a TV airing on German network SAT.1, it’s not a commercial VHS release. More precisely, it’s a bootleg Polish dub (“rychlodabing” is apparently the term) done on top of a recording of a SAT.1 airing (in the Polish “lektor” method of a single male voice reading over the original audio). The video quality does look like the tape has been copied a few generations - at least one to get the Polish dialogue on top of the German recording, possibly a generation between the SAT.1 off-air recording and the tape that got to the Polish dubbers, probably more after the Polish dub because these were (I assume) distributed by people giving a copy of their copy to someone else.
Both Jurassic Park 3D and Raiders BD has the same colour grading with a red tint. This is because they wanted to match the projected image of a 35mm release print and the original warm photochemical timing. However, I think they went overboard with the red tone. The HDTV source if it’s warmed slightly and shifted a bit to the green side will perhaps closely match the print colours, based on the 35mm stills I saw here. Again, the colours on a print look different when projected with the proper bulb brightness. So, I don’t think it’d have looked as red as the BD has it.
The thing is that the bluray is shifted towards orange on the whole, but the bar fight scenes take the red shift to a whole other level, that cannot be explained by a slightly warmer tone. This probably is a delibirate artistic choice, and it clearly contradicts the statements by Paramount, that claim the bluray has the theatrical color timing, which in fact has more of a red shift in this scene than the WOWOW.
HDTV sources are not reliable for colour timing from what I have seen. Look at Jurassic Park’s HDTV colours, it’s shifted towards blue, so is the 2D BD, and both of them have been sourced from the same master file. The original film cells available in the internet clearly show the original timing was warmer (green-yellow-orange). Not as warm as the 3D BD, but not as awfully blue as the HDTV or the 2D BD. So, I guess something less reddish than the current BDs would be the ideal colouring.