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Raiders of the Lost Ark - 35 mm regrade — Page 4

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thorr said:

I personally think you had it right to begin with at post 12, 13, etc.

 Yes, but although it looks great as a screenshot, there is too much contrast for video, and you loose a lot of detail in dark scenes.

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thorr said:

I personally think you had it right to begin with at post 12, 13, etc.

 I actually think it's getting slightly better and better.

I can see the opening shots now looks way better than it did previously. Hats off Dr Dre. Looking much more full and yes vibrant.

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It's good! It has that sort of subtle Grindhousey feel to it.

Ol’ George has the GOUT, I see.

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 (Edited)

Here's the new video sample  for the latest color regrade (available till the 12th of October 12), and I think it's a massive improvement over the previous version. There's great detail, and the colors look spot on:

http://we.tl/iOO9eCO4Rn

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Definitely looks better than the 1st clip. Especially in the dark shots. Have you consider using Chewtobacca's Blu-ray based on Wowow broadcast and another HD broadcast to get rid of Wowow subtitle and logo instead of the official Blu-ray? Or maybe both of them, to have the best of the 2, as the official Blu-ray digitally switched on a lightbulb in the end and, if I remember correctly, zoomed in some shots in the submarine hangar. And on top of that, the official Blu-ray has a weird "waving lines" effect, maybe a side effect of optical effects, I don't know, as in the very beginning, on the mountain shot at the bottom of the frame, and on a few occasions later in the movie.

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Beber said:

Definitely looks better than the 1st clip. Especially in the dark shots. Have you consider using Chewtobacca's Blu-ray based on Wowow broadcast and another HD broadcast to get rid of Wowow subtitle and logo instead of the official Blu-ray? Or maybe both of them, to have the best of the 2, as the official Blu-ray digitally switched on a lightbulb in the end and, if I remember correctly, zoomed in some shots in the submarine hangar. And on top of that, the official Blu-ray has a weird "waving lines" effect, maybe a side effect of optical effects, I don't know, as in the very beginning, on the mountain shot at the bottom of the frame, and on a few occasions later in the movie.

 I did consider it (and tried it), but the bluray color timing, although too orange, is closer to the 35 mm references, it therfore much easier to regrade than the WOWOW. So, since the WOWOW would require a shot by shot color regrade, I decided to stick with the bluray, despite some of the changes. 

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DrDre said:

Here's the new video sample  for the color regrade v1.5 (available till the 12th of October 12), and I think it's a massive improvement over the previous version. There's great detail, and the colors look spot on:

http://we.tl/iOO9eCO4Rn

 I concur. It still maintains that Grindhousey undertone as well!

Ol’ George has the GOUT, I see.

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 (Edited)

There were still some things that bugged me about the regrade, among them the fact that I did not use an actual 35 mm reference. So, I decided to go back to the 35 mm references, more specifically this reference, which has a good white balance, and consequently does not seem to suffer from color shift:

However, it is too saturated, so I came up with a solution. By matching the gray scale image of the 35 mm frame to the gray scale image of the bluray, I can adjust the saturation and contrast of the 35 mm frame to match the saturation and contrast of the bluray, without affecting the colors. After this process it looks like this:

I then matched the bluray to this reference, and got the following result.

Bluray:

WOWOW:

Bluray matched to reference:

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Here's how the latest regrade compares to the bluray, and the WOWOW for the other two 35 mm frames, adjusted to match the bluray's saturation and contrast.

35 mm:

Bluray:

WOWOW:

Regrade:

35 mm:

Bluray:

WOWOW:

Regrade:

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 (Edited)

Here are a couple of frame comparisons for the video sample that will be posted soon of the latest regrade (bluray top, correction bottom):

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I think there's still something a bit off. It's looking too much like an old print. I think this is better.

35 mm:

Bluray:

WOWOW:

Regrade:

35 mm:

Bluray:

WOWOW:

Regrade:

35 mm:

Bluray:

WOWOW:

Regrade:

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Yes, that last one is better. 'Cause the ones before, just above, are really, really red. What happened to the blacks in the shadows, the hair, the cave, the dark areas of the forest?

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Here they are for the latest update of the regrade (bluray top, correction bottom):

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Other than possibly a very slight touch of yellow, it strikes me that each shot is nearly identical in color to its counterpart... right?  Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me here.  Are they as close as they seem?

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Flexicon9 said:

Other than possibly a very slight touch of yellow, it strikes me that each shot is nearly identical in color to its counterpart... right?  Maybe my eyes are playing tricks on me here.  Are they as close as they seem?

 The colors are actually quite different, although the difference is difficult to see if you can't compare them directly. Here are a few screenshot comparisons:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146071

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 (Edited)

The new video sample is almost done for the regrade v1.7. 

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I hate add criticism, because you are doing such wonderful work, but to me the latest regrade looks like it is losing some detail in certain things. I can't really tell whether it is something to do with the gamma or not, or again just my eyes. 

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rockin said:

I hate add criticism, because you are doing such wonderful work, but to me the latest regrade looks like it is losing some detail in certain things. I can't really tell whether it is something to do with the gamma or not, or again just my eyes. 

 I noticed some problems as well, so I went back to v1.5, and fixed a white balancing problem. Screenshots and video are on their way.

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 (Edited)

Here's the comparison against the 35 mm frames, the bluray, and the WOWOW for the last update:

35 mm:

Bluray:

WOWOW:

Regrade:

35 mm:

Bluray:

WOWOW:

Regrade:

35 mm:

Bluray:

WOWOW:

Regrade:

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 (Edited)

The colors look very good, but the image seems a tad too bright and washed out, especially in the 1st picture.

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nirbateman said:

The colors look very good, but the image seems a tad too bright and washed out, especially in the 1st picture.

 The brightness has been matched to the bluray, to make sure no detail is lost in the shadows. A previous version had higher contrast and saturation, but lost a lot of detail in the darker scenes.

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Here are the frames from the opening scenes (bluray top, regrade bottom):

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 (Edited)

DrDre, I think you're very close to having the colours and image dynamics spot on here, at least to my eyes. Contrast and brightness is perfectly fine to me, you've matched the blu-ray image dynamics there and I think thats the right call. In terms of colour though, your regrade does feel a little cold. The fleshtones are also too red IMHO.

I'd suggest that in future you post full size 1080p screencaps, it would make it a lot easier to assess the colours and image dynamics and give feedback.

Here are screencap comparisons for all your latest screencaps between your regraded shots and the same shots with adjustments I would make to remove the slightly cold feeling and make the fleshtones more natural looking, at least to me:

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146973

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146975

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146976

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146977

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146978

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146979

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146980

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146981

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146982

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146983

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kk650 said:

DrDre, I think you're very close to having the colours and image dynamics spot on here, at least to my eyes. Contrast and brightness is perfectly fine to me, you've matched the blu-ray image dynamics there and I think thats the right call. In terms of colour though, your regrade does feel a little cold. The fleshtones are also too red IMHO.

I'd suggest that in future you post full size 1080p screencaps, it would make it a lot easier to assess the colours and image dynamics and give feedback.

Here are screencap comparisons for all your latest screencaps between your regraded shots and the same shots with adjustments I would make to remove the slightly cold feeling and make the fleshtones more natural looking, at least to me:

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146973

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146975

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146976

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146977

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146978

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146979

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146980

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146981

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146982

http://www.screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/146983

 Although I like your screenshots, the desert scenes are more orange, as they are on the bluray, where the 35 mm frames show it should be more yellow.

Sadly, tinypic does not seem to support 1080p, so I will also post some screenshot comparisons. The video sample will be 1080p though.