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Raiders of the Lost Ark - 35 mm regrade (a WIP) — Page 2

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Personally, I agree with TServo. Don't get me wrong, what you've done, especially your algorithm, is beyond amazing! But I liked the dimensionality, drama and bold colors of the earlier, 35mm-sourced images. Raiders is a modern serial, and the images you originally posted look like the covers of a pulp novel come to life. They really draw me in.

Of course, at the end of the day, it is your project and if you like the publicity still versions better, than that's great too. :)

Either way, I really can't wait to see this in motion. 

What can you get a Wookiee for (Life Day) Christmas when he already owns a comb?

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All of the shots based on the publicity still look as close to perfect as I can imagine.  I would just go with it!  I don't see any reason to tweak it further.  Great job!

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Another comparison of the bluray versus WOWOW versus regrade (top bluray, middle WOWOW, bottom regrade):

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The WOWWOW looks closer as the truck is grey so I would again vote WOWWOW is the better source.

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Ronster said:

The WOWWOW looks closer as the truck is grey so I would again vote WOWWOW is the better source.

 The truck is grey in all three shots. The shade of grey very much depends on the lighting conditions, so no conclusions can be drawn from a single photo.

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I am not knocking what you are doing I am giving you an honest opinion.

It's very clear that the yellow is blown out all over the place.

The WOWWOW is much more settled and has more detail because it's not blown out, but it's still not balanced and in my honest opinion it is oversaturated in Red and Yellow slightly undersaturated in cyan. Here is a twaek to the WOWWOW, I am looking for that grittiness to the scene, which is what makes it so brilliant.

But Honestly make it what ever color you like, I am just looking for the realism you might be looking for something else. But it is a preservation thread and I remember this as being gritty and dirty and not blown out and all yellow.

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Ronster said:

I am not knocking what you are doing I am giving you an honest opinion.

It's very clear that the yellow is blown out all over the place.

The WOWWOW is much more settled and has more detail because it's not blown out, but it's still not balanced and in my honest opinion it is oversaturated in Red and Yellow slightly undersaturated in cyan. Here is a twaek to the WOWWOW, I am looking for that grittiness to the scene, which is what makes it so brilliant.

But Honestly make it what ever color you like, I am just looking for the realism you might be looking for something else. But it is a preservation thread and I remember this as being gritty and dirty and not blown out and all yellow.

 As I've stated, I like more dynamic range, and more saturated colors. You don't like it that's fine. However there are multiple sources, and they all say something different. I selected a reference that I like, which has these characteristics, and went with it. These colors are consistent with that reference. You clearly have a different idea about how the film should look, so what's stopping you from doing your own regrade? 

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Don't have the time or the tools, but I do like what you are doing none the less.

And I certainly think you are doing more good than bad, but this one feels wrong.

I think I remember this film far more desaturated when I used to watch it on TV years a go, so It's been color boosted from it's original look when it was digitized.

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Ronster said:

Don't have the time or the tools, but I do like what you are doing none the less.

And I certainly think you are doing more good than bad, but this one feels wrong.

I think I remember this film far more desaturated when I used to watch it on TV years a go, so It's been color boosted from it's original look when it was digitized.

 I remember it being much more desaturated as well, but I never saw it in the theatre, when it was released. Apparently the colors are generally more saturated in a 35 mm print. In some ways the regrade seems to better approach what little references we have, which are far more saturated, but I'm certainly not claiming it is accurate. The same is true for Star Wars. Most people remember the somewhat faded colors of the home video releases, but I've seen scans of some Technicolor prints, and the colors are much more saturated, and in some cases blown out.

In the color matching thread, I matched the Star Wars bluray to the various home releases that have appeared over the years, and to a Technicolor IB print:

GOUT/1993 Definitive Collection Laserdisc:

Japanese Special Collection Laserdisc (1986):

Technicolor IB print (1977):

What's clear from this example, is that home video colors are often not very representative of theatrical print colors. Also, the colors are clearly more saturated in the print than in the home video releases.

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I like your colors better than the blu-ray or WOWOW, actually WOWOW is my least favourate of the 3 but that is just me. I never had a problem with the blu-ray colors, but your regrade looks far better to me.

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Another frame from the truck chase sequence (top bluray, middle WOWOW, bottom regrade):

To me the regrade just looks so much better than either the bluray and the WOWOW. Again the sky just doesn't look right in the bluray and the WOWOW, unlike in the regrade. The colors in the regrade are more saturated, but the regrade also has more depth. The bluray and WOWOW are pretty flat, with the bluray clearly the worst. The guys in the truck are also better visible in the regrade, where they are most difficult to see in the WOWOW.

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I personally think your latest regraded shots look fantastic DrDre, definately the best of the three. I would definately be interested in watching your regraded Raiders of the Lost Ark release.

I agree with Kingherb that the WOWOW shots are my least favourite, the rock colours looks wrong IMHO and everything feels too cold.

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Everything in the regrade looks absolutely fantastic - the best of both the WOWOW and Blu-ray. 

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I decided that Ronster has a point that the colors are somewhat too blownout, so I adjusted the reference to an extend. Color palette is the same, and in my view consistent with the original theatrical color timing. Here's an update of the Raiders of the Lost Ark regrade (top bluray, middle WOWOW, bottom regrade):

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Both the bluray and the WOWOW have a problem, that I only noticed just now. The white in the Nazi flag is pink.  It's worst in the WOWOW. The latest 35 mm regrade fixes this issue (top bluray, middle WOWOW, bottom regrade):

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It says the images were moved or deleted - are new ones coming?

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TServo2049 said:

It says the images were moved or deleted - are new ones coming?

 Sorry, I made a mistake, the images are back online.

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It could be the flags were put through the wash with warm water and the white was pinkened by the red dye...

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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Here's another comparison for the the latest regrade versus the bluray and WOWOW (top bluray, middle WOWOW, bottom regrade):

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Here's a comparison to another interesting reference, the 35 mm 1981 trailer for Raiders of the Lost Ark:

35 mm trailer:

Bluray:

WOWOW:

Regrade:

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Here's another publicity shot, that confirms the accuracy of the 35 mm color regrade:

Publicity shot:

Regrade:

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I can't fault what you've done with the regrade, because I personally didn't find the blu-ray or the wowow perfect. What you have done is balance it out a whole lot more than the other two, and for that alone, to me, looks a big upgrade.

Would it be possible to see a small clip with the regrade in motion?

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I will try to post a clip as soon as possible.

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Now this is interesting. I noticed in the trailer still, Belloq's tie is quite blue, but so is the balance of the frame. In the other grades and regrades, the tie turns quite green. So I searched for how the tie is supposed to look, and came across this:

Here the tie is clearly gray, whereas the Nazi officer's tie remains quite green. Overall, Belloq's suit seems more balanced here. Just some more data to consider :)

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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dark_jedi said:

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't he just showing what can be done, not a final color fix? I mean I thought from what I have been seeing he is pretty much showing what can be done here with the different sources for reference.

I mean color correcting is so darn touchy, not everyone is going to like all the changes, heck we see this in some of our releases, you just have to try and please most lol, either way this program is a great little tool and thanks a ton for sharing it.

I agree with you on this.  I was merely being curious since I personally don't know as much about these things ..... I figure asking questions is far better than just jumping the gun and going ape over something trivial, LOL.

:)