Sorry I should have said relies on rather than trusting.
His 'improvisation' hinges on Artoo being up on that barge balcony and is made more convenient by all the other characters being where they are.
If that didn't happen The Empire would have won the war.
See bonkers insane luck all round.
You might as well said invisible wizards did it.
Okay, here's a challenge guys n gals!
Can you think of a better plan than the one from ROTJ (That I elaborated on above) to rescue Han. Without using the words "Let's just go in there and kill everyone in the palace with blasters, thermal detonators and my swish new green Lightsaber"?
Would love to see them!
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Bingowings said:
Clearly Jabba is more keen on making an example of Solo than getting his money back so it's one of the few plot points of ROTJ that make sense.
Well but it doesn't make sense in ESB. He promised to get right back with the payment in front of his men in ANH. He made a fool of him in front of his men. So deciding to pay him after 3 years (in ESB) is ridiculous and useless because Jabba wouldn't let him go. That is like deciding to commit a suicide.
Not to mention he already had bounty on his head and I don't think he would even reach Jabba before someone would collect it (even if it was in front of his Palace). Just like Greedo would have killed him and collected the bounty, despite Solo trying to convince him he is going to pay Jabba. I mean bounty hunters aren't stupid. On top of that the bounty hunter would just take his pay-off money too.
真実
Bingowings said:
Sorry I should have said relies on rather than trusting.
His 'improvisation' hinges on Artoo being up on that barge balcony and is made more convenient by all the other characters being where they are.
If that didn't happen The Empire would have won the war.
See bonkers insane luck all round.
You might as well said invisible wizards did it.
You don't think luck plays any part in...
- ANH - garbage masher sequence.
- ESB - Luke just happening to fall out the bottom of Bespin so Leia could rescue him?
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Ryan McAvoy said:
Hey, it's me. said:
I admit I have tried to defend the whole Han rescue making sense before but truthfully, it just doesn't. It's a contrived mess just thought up in 5 mins so as to get all the main protagonists back on screen. As if Lucas was thinking that's what the audience would want to see. One thing that hasn't been pointed out (I assume) is how comes Fett didnt recognise Lando? Now I know he had his guards uniform on but the majority of his face was still discernable? Hadn't he clocked him at various points and thought, 'hang on, he looks kinda familiar? ESB Fett was portrayed as a cunning, intelligent bounty hunter. If I was Fett, when it all kicked off I would've just said see ya. I got paid for Solo and this ain't my beef. Pretty sure there are other gangsters out there to work for. It's like if you work in a bank and it gets robbed, what do you do? Try to be a hero? No, if your smart you do f*** all and try to get out of there if the opportunity presents itself. No rather than that we're led to believe that instead of just being out for himself, through some kind of blind loyalty to his gangster sub contractor that's never been established, he gets involved. And so we get the premature, comical death of one of the best parts of ESB.
You don't think Boba Fett would see any benefit in saving the life of the HUGELY WEALTHY AND POWERFULL Jabba?????
No not really. Bounty hunters are out for number one. What so I'm supposed to believe that the Hutts are the ONLY gangsters in the galaxy worth working for? The Hutts controlled Tatooine, that's one planet out of a whole galaxy. And if its said elsewhere that they controlled more I don't care because it isn't established in the film.
I have no problem with Yoda expiring when he did. It's a dramatic device as old as most of the mythology Lucas draws from. He looked more frail than when we last saw him in ESB, and was probably using the last of his force abilities to hang on as long as he did. Dagobah isn't exactly the best climate for a 900+ year old guy to be living on alone for twenty years.
One of the puppet's eyes actually went askew on the set, but they decided not to fix it, as it helped with making Yoda look ill.
I'm still amazed Frank Oz and company pulled off the shot of Yoda climbing into bed. Who needs CGI? ;)
Where were you in '77?
I did suggest on the edits idea page that Luke went straight to Dagobah after ESB and finished his training (Yoda died with his role complete) so he would be a skilled up to take on well planned rescue but Leia having the Skywalker impatience doesn't wait for him.
She causes a big scene. gets demoted in the Rebel ranks and presses Chewie and Lando to pay certain people to get them into the palace without Luke or the droids.
Luke sensing Leia in peril also gets captured trying to rescue the rescue party (in the ANH mode) using the droids as Trojan horses to get his new saber into the palace.
Artoo uses his hacking skills to get himself onto the barge.
That way everything can play out the same but it's tweaked enough to feel plausible and add character development.
Fett need not even be there or he could be taken out by Han using blind instinct to deliberately hit him not blind luck (which would play on an ironic reference to the training scene in ANH where he mocks Luke for trying to hit a target blind).
It's a cockup up there with little Annie blowing up the droid control ship by accident.
The sequence (the whole first act) is so 'almost there' that it annoys me that instead of making the sequence make sense Lucas does stupid things in his SEs like adding Vader going "Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!".
Ryan McAvoy said:
Bingowings said:
Sorry I should have said relies on rather than trusting.
His 'improvisation' hinges on Artoo being up on that barge balcony and is made more convenient by all the other characters being where they are.
If that didn't happen The Empire would have won the war.
See bonkers insane luck all round.
You might as well said invisible wizards did it.
You don't think luck plays any part in...
- ANH - garbage masher sequence.
- ESB - Luke just happening to fall out the bottom of Bespin so Leia could rescue him?
There is luck in Threepio turning his phone on in time (well within the realms of plausible luck and excusable dramatic license) but the rest is Artoo's skill and the Bespin thing is down to Luke communicating via the Force to someome we later learn is Force sensitive herself.
So the layers of luck are much less than in that sequence.
I agree SilverWook,
Hopefully the era of unbridled needless use of inferior CGI is slowly ending. With Directors like Peter Jackson and Chris Nolan restricting the use of CGI to the best way to seemlessly integrate live-action-actors, live-action-footage and old-skool model effects. Plus of course employing CGI when you can't accomplish the shot any-other way (And you've tried to!).
Also you've got young directors like Duncan Jones using practical models to achieve stunning scenes on a micro-budget in 'Moon'. And new box office mega-smah 'Evil Dead' using te minimum CGI also in favour of eye-wincing makeup effects and chucking buckets of good old corn syrup at the camera.
Best special effects ever achieved would have to be nearly a quarter century ago in 'Blade Runner' just before the advent of CGI. Sadly ILM try to reference BR in the AOTC chase with disastrous results!
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Bingowings said:
Ryan McAvoy said:
Bingowings said:
Sorry I should have said relies on rather than trusting.
His 'improvisation' hinges on Artoo being up on that barge balcony and is made more convenient by all the other characters being where they are.
If that didn't happen The Empire would have won the war.
See bonkers insane luck all round.
You might as well said invisible wizards did it.
You don't think luck plays any part in...
- ANH - garbage masher sequence.
- ESB - Luke just happening to fall out the bottom of Bespin so Leia could rescue him?
There is luck in Threepio turning his phone on in time (well within the realms of plausible luck and excusable dramatic license) but the rest is Artoo's skill and the Bespin thing is down to Luke communicating via the Force to someome we later learn is Force sensitive herself.
So the layers of luck are much less than in that sequence.
Agreed, I've no problem with a bit of luck and winging it, which is what goes on in ROTJ.
Yes Leia uses the force to rescue luke from that pylon. But the force had nothing to do with getting him to that pylon. If he had somehow surved that massive fall and landed ANYWHERE else in Bespin. Leia would've had to abandon Luke because her, Lando and Chewie caouldn't have fought backinto Bespin against the whole Empire.
Plus how come Vader just leaves Bespin anyway?!? Why doesn't he at least attempt to get some of his troopers to go find where Luke landed and arrest him?!?
SOOOO many plot holes in all 6 SW films. But in the OT I'm having SOOOO much fun I don't care for a second!
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The chase in AOTC is one of the best bits of the PT and has lots of practical models in it.
The destruction of the Executor in ROTJ is awful beyond words and the shot of the skiff escaping the sailbarge explosion looks like it belongs in an episode of Blakes 7.
My bag with the Yoda scene is Luke is declared sufficiently trained after weeks with Yoda if that and Yoda hangs onto life just long enough for Luke to come back and then weakens and dies in a conversation.
It would have been more dramatic if Luke turned up and found Yoda's corpse and then had a conversation with his ghost about how Yoda can't help him now because he is dead.
The idea of moving the Dagobah scenes to the beginning at least give Luke a chance of taking on Vader.
What get's Luke on the pylon in ESB is 'the Force' of gravity coupled with superhuman reflexes of a Jedi not luck.
The vents are clearly designed to take debris away and dump it.
Luke just grabbed the mast on the way down.
Bingowings said:
The destruction of the Executor in ROTJ is awful beyond words and the shot of the skiff escaping the sailbarge explosion looks like it belongs in an episode of Blakes 7.
Yes, executor crash in ROTJ is just terrible. I've had paper aeroplanes crash into the dirt that looked better than that.
But Skiff explosion is astounding work.
For example, which looks more convincing?.....
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How do you know Vader didnt send troops to investigate? He obviously sensed Luke was still alive. Maybe the TIEs that intercept the Falcon were there to search for Luke and stumbled upon it rescuing him. That's the way I see it.
Hey, it's me. said:
How do you know Vader didnt send troops to investigate? He obviously sensed Luke was still alive. Maybe the TIEs that intercept the Falcon were there to search for Luke and stumbled upon it rescuing him. That's the way I see it.
Oh I totally agree, I was just making a point about things not being explained in all 6 of the SW films. But as I said I don't care that things aren't explained on screen. Exposition is can be a curse on cinema if over used.
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Ryan McAvoy said:
Hey, it's me. said:
How do you know Vader didnt send troops to investigate? He obviously sensed Luke was still alive. Maybe the TIEs that intercept the Falcon were there to search for Luke and stumbled upon it rescuing him. That's the way I see it.
Oh I totally agree, I was just making a point about things not being explained in all 6 of the SW films. But as I said I don't care that things aren't explained on screen. Exposition is can be a curse on cinema if over used.
The problem is that certain people only see them in ROTJ. If you listen to Bingo everything in ANH and ESB is perfect while ROTJ has all the "flaws".
真実
Bingowings said:
It would have been more dramatic if Luke turned up and found Yoda's corpse and then had a conversation with his ghost about how Yoda can't help him now because he is dead.
A dead body in that climate would be far too gruesome for a SW movie. ;)
Where were you in '77?
That Yoda comic is v funny. Thanks for that
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^ funnyjunk link fail.
There are flaws unique to ROTJ some of them are down to attempting things technically that just don't work.
The little motorised puppet pilots in the snowspeeders would look just as crap as the stop motion puppets on the sail barge if they weren't covered by the cockpit hatch.
And the barge explosion (even after being tinkered with for the various SEs still looks awful).
The AOTC speeder is a real prop on fire on a set so it looks more real than stop motion puppets on a model matted onto an exploding model shot (especially with the original matte lines).
But a lot of it is down to Lucas just losing his mojo.
Just compare the amount of attention ILM put into making Raiders the amazing natural feeling piece of escapism it was and compare it TOD and TLC.
He went into Star Wars hoping to rebel against the studio system and have fun.
His marriage broke down and he ended up ruling an Empire of his own.
It's no surprise that after the lackluster 'finish everything quick' ROTJ the only kind of Star Wars Lucas had left in him was a boring tale about a kid who screws up his marriage and ends up being the evil he swore to fight against.
Willow is a better Star Wars film than Jedi and that too is not without major flaws.
"The AOTC speeder is a real prop on fire"
WHAT!?!??!?!
It can't be!! It's the worst CGI in the film! Where is the evidence you've seen that this was a real shot? (The evidence of my own eyes says different) I can't remember seeing it in any behind-the-scenes featurettes. I know a physical prop was used for most of the sequence but not the actual crash!
If you are right, I would eat my hat (If I owned a hat)! Then get my eyes tested and have a CT scan on my brain!
Plus that is not fire, mankind has had the invention of fire for quite a while and it has never looked like that!
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I'm struggling to remember what speeder scene your relating to in AOTC?
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/04zJeHIBBfM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Might be useful
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Bingowings said:
Willow is a better Star Wars film than Jedi
I don't think I will be taking you seriously any more. :)
真実
Hey, it's me. said:
Yeah it was a little too convenient wasnt it. Hobbling around, gets in to bed, says yeah Vaders your father and by the way you've got a sibling, dead.
This kind of thing happens - people near death can hang on until that final bit of closure they've been waiting for. A similar instance happened between my own father and his mother.
"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars
SilverWook said:
I thought this guy was kind of scary close up...
What about this one?
;)
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
Even scarier! He's gouged out a human's eye and is wearing it as a sick voodoo eyepatch!
(Or it could be a wardrobe balls up)
lol
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