Show me some revisionist history written prior to summer 1977 then. There was plenty of credit given to everyone who made the first movie the hit it was at the time. Whatever has been distorted since then doesn't change that. Us old geezers that were around back then remember, because we eagerly read every little scrap of info we could get our hands on.
If you can prove Star Wars could have been made without George being involved in any way, you are more then welcome to. The old George used to listen to the people around him, even if it was grudgingly.
Where were you in '77?
The "old" George had no money anyway; once you have a billion dollars, you can ignore anyone.
And I don't even hate ROTJ, I just have to bash it because it is the popular thing to do (Dark Knight Rises for example), and doesn't have enough redeeming qualities to not be bashed by people who love ANH/ESB.
generalfrevious said:
The "old" George had no money anyway; once you have a billion dollars, you can ignore anyone.
And I don't even hate ROTJ, I just have to bash it because it is the popular thing to do (Dark Knight Rises for example), and doesn't have enough redeeming qualities to not be bashed by people who love ANH/ESB.
Your posts just get better and better.
A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em
I've been known to Lucas bash, as plenty of bashing is deserved. But the whole idea that Star Wars could have existed without him is truly a silly claim to make. The man makes shit up and constantly changes his own history, but there was a time when he was a promising young director/story teller with some really great ideas.
THX-1138, American Graffiti, and Star Wars were all pretty good films. I've often felt it is a shame that after this point he got caught in a SW rut. I feel like the popularity of Star Wars and the commercial possibilities of it took over and smothered out the man who could have gone on to be one of the better directors of the 80's and 90's. From there is was all Star Wars and a few poorly done flops on the side.
Sometimes I still wish Star Wars had been far less successful, becoming an eventual cult classic, with George going on to make more films on par with THX and Graffiti.
No matter what you want to say about him, the man had creative talent. Maybe those three good movies he made did have other creative talents and influences propping them up and making them work, but George did play a large role in all three of those films. And Star Wars, from the first film in '77, to the two sequels, along with all the baggage, good and atrocious, that followed, wouldn't exist without him. That isn't revisionist history, that is a solid fact.
Alright. I'm still mad at him for not letting us see the originals, and I doubt disney will do anything to rectify that situation.
Ryan McAvoy said:
Hey, it's me. said:
generalfrevious said:
SilverWook said:
If he had, what the heck would would we have done with our free time and disposable income the past 36 years?
A world without Star Wars is not a pleasant concept.
I am of the opinion that Lucas had nothing to do with SW; he might have been nothing more than just a hired hand for the first film and later revised history to make it look like he was the mastermind of the whole franchise. It's like saying Star Trek would not have existed without Rick Berman.
What is it with Ricks?
I kinda thought Star Trek "Nuked the fridge" when they introduced speed limits into TNG.
Instead of lines like...
"Warp 9.7 now ensign!!!" "But Captain, she'll fly apart sir!" "Dammit, fly her apart then!"
We got:
"Warp 2.5 Mr Data, and no faster mind you. We don't want to break any Starfleet Health and Safety regulations now do we. Afterall I'm sure the Aliens we are pursuing will have adopted a similar code of practice"
You must not be aware that the reason why Voyager has tilting nacelles and why the Enterprise-E is narrow and long (compared to Enterprise-D) is because creating an elongated warp field keeps it from causing damage to subspace.
chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.
Hey I am as mad at George for not releasing the originals in decent form as anyone here. But he deserves credit for the vision and energy that made the original SW happen. It's a miracle that movie was made and also a miracle that it was so good. Credit where credit is due.
As far as Ep.7... I can't see George really doing much. This is going to be other folks' creation this time -- George will be perfectly happy to step in now and then to take credit, but surely he is tired of actually working on these movies. At least I hope he is. We just have to hope that someone with some clout actually has some artistic standards, otherwise it's going to be another f-fest. Because if you think about it, the movies have royally been f-ed up for about 15 years now... young movie-makers have every reason to believe that the current state of affairs is how things are supposed to be in SW-land. In another 3 or 4 years, it will have been f-ed up for as long as it was great. (this forum excepted)
Readers of the off-topic thread know that I am very anti-religious. But I am tempted to pray that Ep.7 turn out decent. It just seems like the appropriate thing to do.
"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars
chyron8472 said:
Ryan McAvoy said:
Hey, it's me. said:
generalfrevious said:
SilverWook said:
If he had, what the heck would would we have done with our free time and disposable income the past 36 years?
A world without Star Wars is not a pleasant concept.
I am of the opinion that Lucas had nothing to do with SW; he might have been nothing more than just a hired hand for the first film and later revised history to make it look like he was the mastermind of the whole franchise. It's like saying Star Trek would not have existed without Rick Berman.
What is it with Ricks?
I kinda thought Star Trek "Nuked the fridge" when they introduced speed limits into TNG.
Instead of lines like...
"Warp 9.7 now ensign!!!" "But Captain, she'll fly apart sir!" "Dammit, fly her apart then!"
We got:
"Warp 2.5 Mr Data, and no faster mind you. We don't want to break any Starfleet Health and Safety regulations now do we. Afterall I'm sure the Aliens we are pursuing will have adopted a similar code of practice"
You must not be aware that the reason why Voyager has tilting nacelles and why the Enterprise-E is narrow and long (compared to Enterprise-D) is because creating an elongated warp field keeps it from causing damage to subspace.
I presumed the designers thought it looked cool. If it's not said on screen, I don't lose sleep over it. And that doesn't get the Defiant off the hook. ;)
Where were you in '77?
SilverWook said:
chyron8472 said:
Ryan McAvoy said:
Hey, it's me. said:
generalfrevious said:
SilverWook said:
If he had, what the heck would would we have done with our free time and disposable income the past 36 years?
A world without Star Wars is not a pleasant concept.
I am of the opinion that Lucas had nothing to do with SW; he might have been nothing more than just a hired hand for the first film and later revised history to make it look like he was the mastermind of the whole franchise. It's like saying Star Trek would not have existed without Rick Berman.
What is it with Ricks?
I kinda thought Star Trek "Nuked the fridge" when they introduced speed limits into TNG.
Instead of lines like...
"Warp 9.7 now ensign!!!" "But Captain, she'll fly apart sir!" "Dammit, fly her apart then!"
We got:
"Warp 2.5 Mr Data, and no faster mind you. We don't want to break any Starfleet Health and Safety regulations now do we. Afterall I'm sure the Aliens we are pursuing will have adopted a similar code of practice"
You must not be aware that the reason why Voyager has tilting nacelles and why the Enterprise-E is narrow and long (compared to Enterprise-D) is because creating an elongated warp field keeps it from causing damage to subspace.
I presumed the designers thought it looked cool. If it's not said on screen, I don't lose sleep over it. And that doesn't get the Defiant off the hook. ;)
Sure. If it's not in the shows or movies, it's not canon.
I didn't think the TNG episode "Force of Nature" was made to give some convoluted reason for Trek having a speed limit. To me, the episode was a sort of commentary on how (our) current transportation methods are destroying the environment.
And besides, it's Trek. All they have to do is manufacture a variable-geometry warp field manipulator of some sort to fix the problem (which I assume is what the Defiant has).
But anyway, Star Trek, as a franchise, has a number of shows which are a commentary about certain aspects of our society. "Force of Nature" is one of them. Simple as that. It's not "nuking the fridge."
chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.
generalfrevious said:
Alright. I'm still mad at him for not letting us see the originals, and I doubt disney will do anything to rectify that situation.
DuracellEnergizer said:
generalfrevious said:
Alright. I'm still mad at him for not letting us see the originals, and I doubt disney will do anything to rectify that situation.
I'm a borderline nihilist, yet even I think you're being too pessimistic in this regard.
Yes Disneyhaving the franchise makes me very hopeful restoration wise. Disney always spend time, money and love on meticulous restorations. Some of their restorations of the Disney classics on Blu-Ray are so beautiful yu wanna cry. Finger prints and brushstrokes of the artists can be seen in the detail. Plus releasing more boxsets is free money for Disney!
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
Ryan McAvoy said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
generalfrevious said:
Alright. I'm still mad at him for not letting us see the originals, and I doubt disney will do anything to rectify that situation.
I'm a borderline nihilist, yet even I think you're being too pessimistic in this regard.
Yes Disneyhaving the franchise makes me very hopeful restoration wise. Disney always spend time, money and love on meticulous restorations. Some of their restorations of the Disney classics on Blu-Ray are so beautiful yu wanna cry. Finger prints and brushstrokes of the artists can be seen in the detail. Plus releasing more boxsets is free money for Disney!
For arguments sake, COULD Disney undo anything Lucas has done to the OT? Could they say, release a fully restored OT in original form with only the extra bits from all the other versions that made any sense? (I mean come on. Some of the added stuff was good) These would be few and far between obviously and were mainly aesthetical. A Revised Definitive Original Trilogy if you will? And have a true, restored, unaltered Classic version on there aswell. Everyone's happy!
Ryan McAvoy said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
generalfrevious said:
Alright. I'm still mad at him for not letting us see the originals, and I doubt disney will do anything to rectify that situation.
I'm a borderline nihilist, yet even I think you're being too pessimistic in this regard.
Yes Disneyhaving the franchise makes me very hopeful restoration wise. Disney always spend time, money and love on meticulous restorations. Some of their restorations of the Disney classics on Blu-Ray are so beautiful yu wanna cry. Finger prints and brushstrokes of the artists can be seen in the detail. Plus releasing more boxsets is free money for Disney!
Bullshit. Disney's Blu-ray releases of their theatrical animated titles are terrible, at best.
Most suffer from issues related to revisionist "modern" colortiming and all have been degrained to hell.
The Blu-ray release of Cinderella was degrained so much that the 1997 NTSC VHS release shows more fine detail than it.
Don't believe me? See for yourself: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=6402859&postcount=2
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
Hey, it's me. said:
Ryan McAvoy said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
generalfrevious said:
Alright. I'm still mad at him for not letting us see the originals, and I doubt disney will do anything to rectify that situation.
I'm a borderline nihilist, yet even I think you're being too pessimistic in this regard.
Yes Disneyhaving the franchise makes me very hopeful restoration wise. Disney always spend time, money and love on meticulous restorations. Some of their restorations of the Disney classics on Blu-Ray are so beautiful yu wanna cry. Finger prints and brushstrokes of the artists can be seen in the detail. Plus releasing more boxsets is free money for Disney!
For arguments sake, COULD Disney undo anything Lucas has done to the OT? Could they say, release a fully restored OT in original form with only the extra bits from all the other versions that made any sense? (I mean come on. Some of the added stuff was good) These would be few and far between obviously and were mainly aesthetical. A Revised Definitive Original Trilogy if you will? And have a true, restored, unaltered Classic version on there aswell. Everyone's happy!
Why would they have to undo anything?
All they need to do is scan and restore the '77, '80, and '83 interpositive prints.
It would be ridiculously-stupid to go back to the original negatives and try pro-Harmy it or something.
If Disney's restoration team can't tackle restoring the films from the IPs, then they aren't worth one red cent.
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
By way of comparison, how has Disney been treating their live action films on Blu Ray? I haven't read anything negative about Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
Where were you in '77?
Hmm maybe what I meant was this. Considering all the extras and tweaking that have happened to the OT over the years, couldn't they produce a version where all the decent bits remained and all the unnecessary crap was removed from the different versions that have been released all into one definitive revised edit.
So no Jabba scene in ANH. Han does shoot 1st. The improved Falcon Fx when escaping Mos Eisley. The final revamp of the Emperor hologram in ESB. Improved Bespin fx. No Vader voice over at the end of Jedi and the return of Seb Shaw as Anakins ghost. There's loads more but you get my meaning.
AntcuFaalb said:
Ryan McAvoy said:
DuracellEnergizer said:
generalfrevious said:
Alright. I'm still mad at him for not letting us see the originals, and I doubt disney will do anything to rectify that situation.
I'm a borderline nihilist, yet even I think you're being too pessimistic in this regard.
Yes Disneyhaving the franchise makes me very hopeful restoration wise. Disney always spend time, money and love on meticulous restorations. Some of their restorations of the Disney classics on Blu-Ray are so beautiful yu wanna cry. Finger prints and brushstrokes of the artists can be seen in the detail. Plus releasing more boxsets is free money for Disney!
Bullshit. Disney's Blu-ray releases of their theatrical animated titles are terrible, at best.
Most suffer from issues related to revisionist "modern" colortiming and all have been degrained to hell.
The Blu-ray release of Cinderella was degrained so much that the 1997 NTSC VHS release shows more fine detail than it.
Don't believe me? See for yourself: http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p=6402859&postcount=2
This is getting off topic, but why bother responding to my statement by typing something that is OBVIOUSLY untrue like "Bullshit. Disney's Blu-ray releases of their theatrical animated titles are terrible, at best"??????
"Terrible, at best"!!!! What is a good release then????
The links to comparisons you provided show that the Blu-Ray images are of a vastly higher resolution and quality with every detail perfectly reproduced. As to the colour timing, they are comparing less colourful Laserdiscs, VHS and DVD copies. Just beacuse the colour is more lustrous on the BR doesn't mean it is an inferior record of the original image.
Also your link is from the superb and authorative http://www.blu-ray.com/ which gives the image quality of the BR of Beauty and the beast a perfect 5 out of 5 score!!!! They desribe it as:
"The fine textures and brush strokes that lend the film's hand-painted backgrounds such personality are intact, the tiniest imperfections in the animators' lineart have been preserved and rendered with care, and every nuance and subtlety is sharper, more refined and ultimately more satisfying than ever before."
To show that I'm not just depending on other's opinions I've taken a capture of my own PAL 2D Blu-Ray of Beauty and the beast. Click the image below to see a larger version...
(Unfortunately the capture is a compressed *.jpg and does not reflect any where near the full colour range and detail, but still...) The image is gorgeous and richly detailed. Notice how the hair and cloak are inked in two different greys. Notice how even the grain of the background artwork's paper is preserved. Notice that even a loose bristle from the artists brush has been left un-smoothed in the lower right corner.
The BR also includes a hours of features including a feature length doc, a commentary from the creators, deleted scenes, multiple seemlessly branched cuts of the film and even a picture-in-picture comparison where you can watch the film as a pencil sketch animatic! The bonus content is also included on a seperate BR disc to maximise the quality of the first movie disc.
SO
as I already said !!!"Disney always spend time, money and love on meticulous restorations."!!!
Don't know why I've taken the time to type this but it's annoying when somebody throws words like "Bullshit" around, when they are demonstrably wrong.
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
SilverWook said:
By way of comparison, how has Disney been treating their live action films on Blu Ray? I haven't read anything negative about Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
There's a thread about Roger Rabbit in the other preservations forum here. It has been censored, but that's mostly for the animated parts. Don't know about other live action films.
And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.
SilverWook said:
By way of comparison, how has Disney been treating their live action films on Blu Ray? I haven't read anything negative about Who Framed Roger Rabbit?
I just got it. Once again it's FANTASTIC!!! Though obviously Disney have censored the infamous Jessica rabbit dress moment lol
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
Ryan McAvoy said:
Don't know why I've taken the time to type this but it's annoying when somebody throws words like "Bullshit" around, when they are demonstrably wrong.
Did you even take the time to look at Cinderella?
I admit that I shouldn't have chosen to speak in absolutes, but it seems like you are as well.
I'll revise my statement:
AntcuFaalb said:
Too many of Disney's Blu-ray releases of their theatrical animated titles are terrible, where "too many" is defined as "greater than a few".
Take a look at the Cinderella comparisons at least and, if you have time, take a look at some of the others.
Also, pro-tip: long diatribes filled with a lot of "!!!!" and "????" don't carry more weight around here than a concise, calmly-written rebuttal. My pithy use of the word "bullshit" made me seem like a dick, but your entire post made you seem like an unreasonable loon.
A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.
I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!
—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3
i can only watch rotj on vhs. why? because the camera is so static, the pan and scan version gives it some movement. i also like tron on vhs for this reason.
vacuum said:
i can only watch rotj on vhs. why? because the camera is so static, the pan and scan version gives it some movement. i also like tron on vhs for this reason.
I know, as a kid I had a well worn VHS copy of ROTJ taped from ITV in the UK. My brain still half expects the camera to pan from left to right slowly when Jabba is speaking. My VHS did this to read the hard subs lol
I also remember a lot of my 80s home VHS favourites having the swearing dubbed out (Terminator, Aliens, Robocop, Predator etc). When they re-released 'Back To The Future' at the cinema a while back, I almost spilled my popcorn when Doc Brown says "Your gonna see some serious shit!" (I always assumed he was supposed to say "...serious stuff"
VIZ TOP TIPS! - PARENTS. Impress your children by showing them a floppy disk and telling them it’s a 3D model of a save icon.
Ryan McAvoy said:
vacuum said:
i can only watch rotj on vhs. why? because the camera is so static, the pan and scan version gives it some movement. i also like tron on vhs for this reason.
I know, as a kid I had a well worn VHS copy of ROTJ taped from ITV in the UK. My brain still half expects the camera to pan from left to right slowly when Jabba is speaking. My VHS did this to read the hard subs lol
I also remember a lot of my 80s home VHS favourites having the swearing dubbed out (Terminator, Aliens, Robocop, Predator etc). When they re-released 'Back To The Future' at the cinema a while back, I almost spilled my popcorn when Doc Brown says "Your gonna see some serious shit!" (I always assumed he was supposed to say "...serious stuff"
Yeah this reminds me of my childhood back in the day. Except where I used to live, once a week on a Sunday a bloke used travel around the streets in his estate car laden with pirate videos. The 'Video man' we used to call him. Remember getting Jedi off him. Also E.T and various others.
generalfrevious said:
SilverWook said:
To believe Lucas had nothing to do with the creation of Star Wars is a whole new level of loathing and denial.
That's buying into the revisionist history of the franchise. Lucas wants to be seen as the father of SW but does not deserve that title. Gary Kurtz and Marcia Lucas are the real people behind SW.
Don't be ridiculous...
真実
imperialscum said:
generalfrevious said:
SilverWook said:
To believe Lucas had nothing to do with the creation of Star Wars is a whole new level of loathing and denial.
That's buying into the revisionist history of the franchise. Lucas wants to be seen as the father of SW but does not deserve that title. Gary Kurtz and Marcia Lucas are the real people behind SW.
Don't be ridiculous...
ANH was saved in editing. That is a fact. Marcia Lucas was one of the editors to the film. That is also a fact. Kurtz managed to rein in George's overindulgences during ANH and most of ESB's shooting. This yet another fact.
With ROTJ George Lucas was trying to remake ANH the way he wanted to before common sense saved the day six years earlier, before he contemplated remaking the whole trilogy in the form of the SE back in the 90s. The silver lining to Jedi is that Kazanjian, while no Kurtz, was no sock puppet like Rick McCallum would be during the making of the PT. So the movie ended up not being an unwatchable disaster like the prequels later would.