ROTJ is the best Star Wars film... discuss! — Page 10

vacuum said:

i can only watch rotj on vhs. why?  because the camera is so static, the pan and scan version gives it some movement. i also like tron on vhs for this reason.

You know this is actually a good point.  Somewhat related: when I first saw Star Wars in widescreen I felt its age for the first time.  The editing on the P&S SE tapes definitely felt more dynamic and modern thanks to camera pans and sometimes quicker cuts.  Even before I was an OUT purist I preferred that 70s vibe I got out of the widescreen version.

For the record, SW is the reason I know anything about film, OAR etc.  I blame all of you guys :P

generalfrevious said:

imperialscum said:

generalfrevious said:

SilverWook said:

To believe Lucas had nothing to do with the creation of Star Wars is a whole new level of loathing and denial.

That's buying into the revisionist history of the franchise. Lucas wants to be seen as the father of SW but does not deserve that title. Gary Kurtz and Marcia Lucas are the real people behind SW.

Don't be ridiculous...

ANH was saved in editing. That is a fact. Marcia Lucas was one of the editors to the film. That is also a fact. Kurtz managed to rein in George's overindulgences during ANH and most of ESB's shooting. This yet another fact.

With ROTJ George Lucas was trying to remake ANH the way he wanted to before common sense saved the day six years earlier, before he contemplated remaking the whole trilogy in the form of the SE back in the 90s. The silver lining to Jedi is that Kazanjian, while no Kurtz, was no sock puppet like Rick McCallum would be during the making of the PT. So the movie ended up not being an unwatchable disaster like the prequels later would.

Surely editing was important (as well as other aspects) but the fact is also that Lucas pretty much had a complete creative control over all 3 films of original trilogy. Even in ANH because the studio didn't care too much and gave him free hands. I mean he probably got more feedback from producers and hired directors than in PT but in the end he had the final word over everything. So saying that he did not have creative control is ridiculous.

Hey, it's me. said:

With Empire, his overall influence was minimal. He obviously he had the treatment and gave the ok to this and that, but everything else was left in the hands of others.

So taking all of this into account how much credit does Lucas actually merit for the Original Trilogy? 

You can't take that into account because it is not true. During the ESB he helmed the pre-production and post-production. In addition to having last word on pretty much everything, he worked with art designers to define visual looks (McQuarrie, Johnston), he wrote second (actual initial) draft of screenplay, oversaw the writing of subsequent ones, and participated in editing (had final cut). I don't see how that is "minimal influence".

This sounds interesting...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5zXhLqG8q0

AntcuFaalb said:

Hey, it's me. said:

AntcuFaalb said:

I can think of many sillier films that deserve preservation as well.

I just have trouble understanding why someone would enjoy ROTJ less. It's a popcorn-flick just like TESB.

Four words.

Sy Snootles, Max Rebo.

poita said:

Four words.

Sy Snootles, Max Rebo.

True, true.

Well, at least Lapti Nek is better than Jedi Rocks. ;-)

ROTJ has many great scenes/moments that rivals/surpass things in the previous two films. I think those who complain about ROTJ usually completely ignore them and go on about irrelevant stuff (ewoks etc.)

poita said:

AntcuFaalb said:

Hey, it's me. said:

AntcuFaalb said:

I can think of many sillier films that deserve preservation as well.

I just have trouble understanding why someone would enjoy ROTJ less. It's a popcorn-flick just like TESB.

Four words.

Sy Snootles, Max Rebo.

So, you have no issues with Droopy McCool? ;)

AntcuFaalb said:

poita said:

Four words.

Sy Snootles, Max Rebo.

True, true.

Well, at least Lapti Nek is better than Jedi Rocks. ;-)

Damn straight! I could go the rest of my life without seeing those CGI nightmares they added.

The bloated frog fellow was okay, as he was a real puppet. Unfortunately, he looks like he's sitting on a giant crapper...

Bingowings said:

So many real world monsters are really just sick old men afraid of death it's a powerful scene to see that but also to see his restored humanity ...

Given his PT behavior, I think "newfound humanity" would be more accurate.

TV's Frink said:

imperialscum said:

ROTJ has many great scenes/moments that rivals/surpass things in the previous two films. I think those who complain about ROTJ usually completely ignore them and go on about irrelevant stuff (ewoks etc.)

The Ewoks are both annoying and relevant.

But way less annoying than Gungans. ;)

Ewoks throw better parties too.

TV's Frink said:

imperialscum said:

ROTJ has many great scenes/moments that rivals/surpass things in the previous two films. I think those who complain about ROTJ usually completely ignore them and go on about irrelevant stuff (ewoks etc.)

The Ewoks are both annoying and relevant.

They are as relevant as Jawas in SW. Plus Jawas are just as cute/pathetic (or whatever) as Ewoks. Yet I haven't seen anyone complaining or calling it a toy sale.

And yes while I agree that some of the "comedy" stuff involved with them is annoying, I just don't see how this would be any major factor on making one's overall opinion of the film. The little pigmen and their playing with 3PO's head in ESB are just as annoying, yet I haven't seen anyone complaining about that either.

The way I see it is that some people just need to find an outcast in anything so they can pick on it and complain about. In case of OT, ROTJ came the last and seems the most convenient candidate.

Ugnaughts cry when you call them that.

DominicCobb said:

Yes but the Ewoks have a large amount of screen time.

So do Jawas.

DominicCobb said:

imperialscum said:

DominicCobb said:

Yes but the Ewoks have a large amount of screen time.

So do Jawas.

Not even remotely close to the same amount of screen time. And the only time the Jawas are involved in any sort of bad "comedy" is in the SE changes. Also, while pivotal to the plot, they are not behind the defeat of some of, what are supposed to be, the Empire's best forces.

And this is coming from someone who's never really minded Ewoks and who generally loves ROTJ.

Now Jawas may not have as much screen time as Ewoks but to say "not even remotely close" is just wrong. Almost in entire Tatooine sequence you see Jawas.

Also saying that Ewoks were pivotal in defeat of Empire is over-exaggeration again. They were basically just a distraction which allowed rebels to defeat a company-sized unit of stormtroopers. It was Chewie who did most of the job btw. You might want to watch the film again. If you compare, they are just as pivotal to destruction of DS2 as Jawas were in destruction of DS1. If Jawas didn't pick the droids up, they would have been easily spotted and captured by the imps and the plans would have never reached the rebels, in that sense.

And anyway the crucial point of Empire's defeat was not destruction of DS2 but the death of Emperor (which is entirely credited to Vader and Luke's influence on him). If he didn't kill him he would probably have escaped (even if DS2 was destroyed). Note that Emperor was not a proud guy like Tarkin, that he would stay on DS2 when there was a clear danger.