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RELEASED: Raiders of the Lost Ark 35mm LPP Theatrical Experience - v1.0 — Page 6

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RayRogers said:

anibalcris said:

Does any of you know where can i get this version? Thank you!!!

The Spleen. I already have it. Of course I don’t own the Indiana Jones movies on DVD anymore. Just the Blu-rays as everyone should. Except there are some bonus features which weren’t fully carried over to the BDs.

It’s also on Usenet.

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RayRogers said:

Of course I don’t own the Indiana Jones movies on DVD anymore. Just the Blu-rays as everyone should.

You’re not a true fan until you own every home video release of Indiana Jones ever put out. That includes CEDs.

“After a time, you may find that having, is not so pleasing a thing after all, as wanting. It is not logical, but it is often true.” - Spock

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Handman said:

RayRogers said:

Of course I don’t own the Indiana Jones movies on DVD anymore. Just the Blu-rays as everyone should.

You’re not a true fan until you own every home video release of Indiana Jones ever put out. That includes CEDs.

That is the one version I never had. It’s the same transfer as the VHS. Did CED have better resolution than VHS? I know they were less than LD, but not sure how they compared to VHS.

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 (Edited)

…and the majority of the films are presented in full screen/pan and scan.

Edit:
As a previous collectior of the CED format, I can testify that this edition of Raiders was in pan and scan.

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 (Edited)

Wazzles said:

JayArgonaut said:

CED was superior to VHS (which was never that difficult) but inferior to LD.

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/cedfaq.html#onetwelve

Only in terms of quality, since the discs could only be used so many times before they were useless.

RCA gave the discs a life expectancy for optimum performance of 500 plays. Most VHS tapes would be in pretty poor shape by that stage. 😄

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/cedfaq.html#threetwelve

alexp120 said:

…and the majority of the films are presented in full screen/pan and scan.

Edit:
As a previous collectior of the CED format, I can testify that this edition of Raiders was in pan and scan.

As were 99% of home video releases across all formats during that era. The only films I remember watching at home in widescreen during the 80s were the TV broadcasts of Manhattan (because of Allen’s insistence) and 2001.

Out of curiosity, was Raiders ever shown in 2.35:1 by pay movie channels in the US during the 80s/90s?

Edit: interesting article from 1990 on Spielberg’s fight to get his films shown in their OAR on home video.

http://www.rogerebert.com/interviews/spielberg-turns-letterboxing-into-crusade-with-new-tape

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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 (Edited)

JayArgonaut said:

Wazzles said:

JayArgonaut said:

CED was superior to VHS (which was never that difficult) but inferior to LD.

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/cedfaq.html#onetwelve

Only in terms of quality, since the discs could only be used so many times before they were useless.

RCA gave the discs a life expectancy for optimum performance of 500 plays. Most VHS tapes would be in pretty poor shape by that stage. 😄

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/cedfaq.html#threetwelve

alexp120 said:

…and the majority of the films are presented in full screen/pan and scan.

Edit:
As a previous collectior of the CED format, I can testify that this edition of Raiders was in pan and scan.

As were 99% of home video releases across all formats during that era. The only films I remember watching at home in widescreen during the 80s were the TV broadcasts of Manhattan (because of Allen’s insistence) and 2001.

Out of curiosity, was Raiders ever shown in 2.35:1 by pay movie channels in the US during the 80s/90s?

Edit: interesting article from 1990 on Spielberg’s fight to get his films shown in their OAR on home video.

http://www.rogerebert.com/interviews/spielberg-turns-letterboxing-into-crusade-with-new-tape

That was the only transfer of Raiders available until the 1992 WS LD. Does anyone have the first edition laserdisc? It might be worth preserving that version in the highest resolution available and LD would be better than the VHS. In fact a good preservation of the WS LD is a good idea. I have it, but not a good way to capture it.

I don’t remember Raiders ever being shown in WS on television until the 2003 DVD transfer. They used the pan and scan of the 1992 transfer.

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litemakr said:

JayArgonaut said:

Wazzles said:

JayArgonaut said:

CED was superior to VHS (which was never that difficult) but inferior to LD.

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/cedfaq.html#onetwelve

Only in terms of quality, since the discs could only be used so many times before they were useless.

RCA gave the discs a life expectancy for optimum performance of 500 plays. Most VHS tapes would be in pretty poor shape by that stage. 😄

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/cedfaq.html#threetwelve

alexp120 said:

…and the majority of the films are presented in full screen/pan and scan.

Edit:
As a previous collectior of the CED format, I can testify that this edition of Raiders was in pan and scan.

As were 99% of home video releases across all formats during that era. The only films I remember watching at home in widescreen during the 80s were the TV broadcasts of Manhattan (because of Allen’s insistence) and 2001.

Out of curiosity, was Raiders ever shown in 2.35:1 by pay movie channels in the US during the 80s/90s?

Edit: interesting article from 1990 on Spielberg’s fight to get his films shown in their OAR on home video.

http://www.rogerebert.com/interviews/spielberg-turns-letterboxing-into-crusade-with-new-tape

That was the only transfer of Raiders available until the 1992 WS LD. Does anyone have the first edition laserdisc? It might be worth preserving that version in the highest resolution available and LD would be better than the VHS. In fact a good preservation of the WS LD is a good idea. I have it, but not a good way to capture it.

I don’t remember Raiders ever being shown in WS on television until the 2003 DVD transfer. They used the pan and scan of the 1992 transfer.

I have the 1984 LD version. I’m still planning to have it digitized, but haven’t gotten around to it.

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litemakr said:
That was the only transfer of Raiders available until the 1992 WS LD. Does anyone have the first edition laserdisc? It might be worth preserving that version in the highest resolution available and LD would be better than the VHS. In fact a good preservation of the WS LD is a good idea. I have it, but not a good way to capture it.

I don’t remember Raiders ever being shown in WS on television until the 2003 DVD transfer. They used the pan and scan of the 1992 transfer.

Thanks. Curious that a film-maker of Spielberg’s clout was unable to get his work shown in WS on TV for so long whilst Allen succeeded years beforehand. Speaking of the Raiders '84 LD, there appears to have been two US releases, the CLV single disc and the double disc CAV. Would a preservation involve both for historical comparison?

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
Author
Time

JayArgonaut said:

litemakr said:
That was the only transfer of Raiders available until the 1992 WS LD. Does anyone have the first edition laserdisc? It might be worth preserving that version in the highest resolution available and LD would be better than the VHS. In fact a good preservation of the WS LD is a good idea. I have it, but not a good way to capture it.

I don’t remember Raiders ever being shown in WS on television until the 2003 DVD transfer. They used the pan and scan of the 1992 transfer.

Thanks. Curious that a film-maker of Spielberg’s clout was unable to get his work shown in WS on TV for so long whilst Allen succeeded years beforehand. Speaking of the Raiders '84 LD, there appears to have been two US releases, the CLV single disc and the double disc CAV. Would a preservation involve both for historical comparison?

The CAV should have slightly better picture quality, but I doubt there is a need to digitize both.

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 (Edited)

I think the fact that Manhattan was a less mass-consumption movie might have contributed (and I don’t believe it was fully letterboxed to 2.35:1 anyways?). Spielberg was able to get a few of his/Amblin’s movies released in widescreen, even on VHS, though they were only 1.85:1 movies - first, Warner Bros. released The Color Purple, Empire of the Sun (on LD only, IIRC) and Joe Dante’s Innerspace exclusively in letterbox, then Universal used letterbox for E.T. (on LD only) and Always. I believe the first 2.35:1 Spielberg movie released in widescreen on video was indeed Last Crusade, and even then he wasn’t able to convince Paramount to release a letterbox VHS (though it was LBX on S-VHS).

I have no idea of the history of letterbox releases in Japan, but using LDDB’s dates, the next North American letterbox home video release of a scope film after Manhattan was the Criterion LD of The Hidden Fortress in 1987 (it has the earliest volume number of the three scope LBX CC releases that year, the other two in '87 were The Graduate and Blade Runner). In 1988, three non-Criterion scope LBX LDs came out - Ben-Hur and Doctor Zhivago from MGM, and Otto Preminger’s The Cardinal from Image. LBX in general, and scope LBX in particular, became a bigger thing in 1989 (Fox, Columbia, and more from MGM), and I believe all the studios were on board by 1990. (I have no idea what the next scope LBX VHS was after Manhattan - I do know there was a widescreen VHS of the 1989 restoration of Lawrence of Arabia, maybe it was that?)

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Handman said:

RayRogers said:

Of course I don’t own the Indiana Jones movies on DVD anymore. Just the Blu-rays as everyone should.

You’re not a true fan until you own every home video release of Indiana Jones ever put out. That includes CEDs.

VHD or nothing

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Thanks for your thorough reply, you’ve jogged my memory about a few releases over the years. 😃

TServo2049 said:

I think the fact that Manhattan was a less mass-consumption movie might have contributed (and I don’t believe it was fully letterboxed to 2.35:1 anyways?).

It almost certainly appears to have received the full OAR, judging by the opening to the 1984 Betamax release:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLXUy7XZPPA

TServo2049 said:

Spielberg was able to get a few of his/Amblin’s movies released in widescreen, even on VHS, though they were only 1.85:1 movies - first, Warner Bros. released The Color Purple, Empire of the Sun (on LD only, IIRC) and Joe Dante’s Innerspace exclusively in letterbox, then Universal used letterbox for E.T. (on LD only) and Always.

I’d completely forgotten about InnerSpace! It begins with a comparison of the night club sequence in P&S vs WS so that viewers understand that they’re gaining, not losing with the black bars. I really ought to have a go at preserving that at some point, unless other members have already done it. 😃

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y7YyTZCO8Q

TServo2049 said:

I believe the first 2.35:1 Spielberg movie released in widescreen on video was indeed Last Crusade, and even then he wasn’t able to convince Paramount to release a letterbox VHS (though it was LBX on S-VHS).

I don’t follow here, Paramount agreed to an S-VHS LBX but not a VHS LBX release? According to this interview, Spielberg states that Paramount were convinced to release Last Crusade in LBX on VHS alongside the P&S version.

http://www.rogerebert.com/interviews/spielberg-turns-letterboxing-into-crusade-with-new-tape

TServo2049 said:

I have no idea of the history of letterbox releases in Japan, but using LDDB’s dates, the next North American letterbox home video release of a scope film after Manhattan was the Criterion LD of The Hidden Fortress in 1987 (it has the earliest volume number of the three scope LBX CC releases that year, the other two in '87 were The Graduate and Blade Runner). In 1988, three non-Criterion scope LBX LDs came out - Ben-Hur and Doctor Zhivago from MGM, and Otto Preminger’s The Cardinal from Image. LBX in general, and scope LBX in particular, became a bigger thing in 1989 (Fox, Columbia, and more from MGM), and I believe all the studios were on board by 1990. (I have no idea what the next scope LBX VHS was after Manhattan - I do know there was a widescreen VHS of the 1989 restoration of Lawrence of Arabia, maybe it was that?)

Again, thanks for the information. The OT received an LBX Japanese LD release in 1986 that still remains highly regarded, all these decades on.

litemakr said:

The CAV should have slightly better picture quality, but I doubt there is a need to digitize both.

Here’s the opening to the 84’ CLV, they adjusted the credits for the constraints of P&S…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpCSFKF_9as

dvdmike said:

VHD or nothing

😃 The Raiders VHD can be briefly viewed in action here, Fast FWD to 26:19.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCWLaAwr3sM

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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 (Edited)

JayArgonaut said:

I don’t follow here, Paramount agreed to an S-VHS LBX but not a VHS LBX release? According to this interview, Spielberg states that Paramount were convinced to release Last Crusade in LBX on VHS alongside the P&S version.

http://www.rogerebert.com/interviews/spielberg-turns-letterboxing-into-crusade-with-new-tape

It doesn’t look like that actually ended up happening. A Los Angeles Times article a month later mentions seven different versions: VHS, Beta, P&S LD, LBX LD, Video-8, S-VHS, and VHS subtitled in Spanish. It specifically mentions the S-VHS being LBX, but nothing about a regular VHS in that format: http://articles.latimes.com/1990-02-02/entertainment/ca-1301_1_indiana-jones

I can find no evidence of a LBX regular VHS release until the 1999 THX remasters, so if there was supposed to be an LBX version originally, it looks like Paramount backed out at the last minute.

Again, thanks for the information. The OT received an LBX Japanese LD release in 1986 that still remains highly regarded, all these decades on.

Yes, I thought maybe that was one of the earliest post-Manhattan scope LBX releases anywhere in the world, but searching LDDB shows evidence of other letterbox LDs (including 1.85 films) going back to 1982. I cannot determine how many of them actually were letterbox, or whether their given release dates are accurate. I did find a Japanese site with some release history for the 50s/60s Godzilla movies on LD, and translated it in Chrome; going by the Google translation, the 1986 LDs of the scope entries indeed letterboxed, but were zoomed “midway between Cinemascope and Vista” (so probably around 2:1?) As I said before, the history of widescreen releases in Japan is unclear.

This is all a digression from Raiders/Indy anyway.

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JayArgonaut said:

@Lite: what’s your thoughts, if any, on the ROTLA 1999 LBX THX LD vs the 1992 release?

AFAIK, there was no 1999 THX LD, only VHS. There were supposed to be remastered LD releases with AC-3, but they were canceled. I assume those were supposed to come out concurrent with the VHS remasters, but LDDB does not list them as THX (though old alt.video.laserdisc posts seem to indicate they were going to be THX).

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Ah, thanks for the clarification. Perhaps Paramount nixed it with a view to focusing on a future DVD release?

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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 (Edited)

TServo2049 said:

JayArgonaut said:

@Lite: what’s your thoughts, if any, on the ROTLA 1999 LBX THX LD vs the 1992 release?

AFAIK, there was no 1999 THX LD, only VHS. There were supposed to be remastered LD releases with AC-3, but they were canceled. I assume those were supposed to come out concurrent with the VHS remasters, but LDDB does not list them as THX (though old alt.video.laserdisc posts seem to indicate they were going to be THX).

I’m not aware of any LD release beyond the 1992 version, I would have definitely bought it. I did get the letterboxed VHS released around 2003 because it said on the back that the effects were “newly enhanced”. Of course it was the same transfer with no enhancements. I think their marketing people got confused because Raiders WAS supposed to be re-released theatrically in a Special Edition and I believe some preliminary work was done. The rumor was that the submarine scene would be finished and added. However, they cancelled it when special editions fell out of favor with fans after the 2002 E.T. special edition.

Personally I would have loved to see an updated edition of Raiders with added deleted scenes and updated effects, as long as the original was also available.

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litemakr said:

I’m not aware of any LD release beyond the 1992 version, I would have definitely bought it. I did get the letterboxed VHS released around 2003 because it said on the back that the effects were “newly enhanced”. Of course it was the same transfer with no enhancements. I think their marketing people got confused because Raiders WAS supposed to be re-released theatrically in a Special Edition and I believe some preliminary work was done. The rumor was that the submarine scene would be finished and added. However, they cancelled it when special editions fell out of favor with fans after the 2002 E.T. special edition.

Personally I would have loved to see an updated edition of Raiders with added deleted scenes and updated effects, as long as the original was also available.

I suppose the 2008 HDTV master with the CGI cliff scene, contains the remnants of what was supposed to have been the Special Edition.

Can you elaborate about the submarine scene please? What would it have entailed?

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
Author
Time
 (Edited)

JayArgonaut said:

litemakr said:

I’m not aware of any LD release beyond the 1992 version, I would have definitely bought it. I did get the letterboxed VHS released around 2003 because it said on the back that the effects were “newly enhanced”. Of course it was the same transfer with no enhancements. I think their marketing people got confused because Raiders WAS supposed to be re-released theatrically in a Special Edition and I believe some preliminary work was done. The rumor was that the submarine scene would be finished and added. However, they cancelled it when special editions fell out of favor with fans after the 2002 E.T. special edition.

Personally I would have loved to see an updated edition of Raiders with added deleted scenes and updated effects, as long as the original was also available.

I suppose the 2008 HDTV master with the CGI cliff scene, contains the remnants of what was supposed to have been the Special Edition.

Can you elaborate about the submarine scene please? What would it have entailed?

I don’t have any details, I remember reading it somewhere but it was speculation. Seems like it would be a good scene to be finished with CG. The CG cliff scene makes sense as a remnant. And probably the re-comped matte paintings, snake reflections, etc. I always wondered if they finished other shots (like the ark opening effects) but just never released them due to perceived hostility towards special editions. This was after the admittedly stupid changes to E.T. (guns to walkie talkies). After the Raiders special edition was announced, the South Park episode Free Hat came out, which I think probably persuaded Spielberg not to go through with it.

Of course the irony to this is that every shot in the blu-ray is changed and the sound is remixed.

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While working on the WOWOW regrade, it seemed to me, that there’s a slight but consistent color imbalance in the scan, turning every shot slightly magenta. Do you agree?

LPP:

LPP balanced:

LPP:

LPP balanced:

LPP:

LPP balanced:

LPP:

LPP balanced:

LPP:

LPP balanced:

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 (Edited)

To be fair, the color seen here does not necessarily reflect the scan raw, it uses an LUT based on litemakr’s input on how the color should look going off of projecting his unfaded(?) Super 8(?) print.

Perhaps litemakr can weigh in?

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TServo2049 said:

To be fair, the color seen here does not necessarily reflect the scan raw, it uses an LUT based on litemakr’s input on how the color should look going off of projecting his unfaded(?) Super 8(?) print.

Perhaps litemakr can weigh in?

The print is an unfaded 35mm LPP. I’m not sure where Super 8 came up. But yeah, you are correct in that litemakr adjusted the raw scan’s color to approximate the projected print, as he said that in the original post.

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