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Question about PT to OT continuity

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Forgive me if this has been discussed before on the boards. I was thinking about it the other night and looked briefly but couldnt find anything.

In the PT we are given an explanation about the Force, midiclorians? (or whatever). But in the OT we have a conversation between Ben and Luke, where the force is explained quite differently, at least I think so. (And also, there are numerous reference to the Force as a sort of "religion" which I think implies it relies less on the science of particular micro-thingies, and more on faith, etc).

Are we to understand that everyone can manipulate the force, which is the understanding I fostered from the OT? Or are there only certain people, those with high counts of the "midi..."whatever?

Like I said, this may have been discussed before, sorry if it has.

I personally like to think of the OT version, it seems more Taoist. It makes the force a little more mystical and awe inspiring. Why the need to get all technical?
"You don't own space, so stop actin' like you do."
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Try not to think about all of the non-continuity of the films... It will make you head hurt. (not to mention all the needless parallels)

as for this little subject.

It is my understanding that all beings have a relationship with the force, but only certain beings are born force sensative, this seems to be genetic. As for how the midis work, i realy dont know, but would assume the higher your count is the great probablity you would be force sensative.


I hate the PT version myself. Yoda speech about the nature of the force is wonderful, where as qui gons musings over medicalorian counts is terrible. sad sad sad it is...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/Kingsama/samasig.jpg
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I've heard that in the EU (expanded universe) there are two schools of jedi. The more Buddhist Jedis and the more Western (will of the force, midoclorian) Jedi.
Any truth to this?
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wish i could help, but i stopped reading EU after Ep 1 came out and after trying to read the crystal star what a bad book. But that sounds like a resonable way to explain the inconsitency...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/Kingsama/samasig.jpg
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Thanks for the input. Kingsama you are right, it will make a person's head hurt if they try to make sense of the relationship between the PT and OT.

I havent read anything from the EU, but that would seem to be applicable.

The way that Yoda and Ben conceptualized the force in the OT was one of the most compelling points in the trilogy for me. I have a lot of predisposition towards philosophy, etc. So they "Eastern" Concept of the Force seems more fitting for my preference...perhaps thats all that matters in determination - whatever you feel most comfortable with for explaining the force...lots of things in life are like that.
"You don't own space, so stop actin' like you do."
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Originally posted by: Lethe
Forgive me if this has been discussed before on the boards. I was thinking about it the other night and looked briefly but couldnt find anything.

In the PT we are given an explanation about the Force, midiclorians? (or whatever). But in the OT we have a conversation between Ben and Luke, where the force is explained quite differently, at least I think so. (And also, there are numerous reference to the Force as a sort of "religion" which I think implies it relies less on the science of particular micro-thingies, and more on faith, etc).

Are we to understand that everyone can manipulate the force, which is the understanding I fostered from the OT? Or are there only certain people, those with high counts of the "midi..."whatever?

Like I said, this may have been discussed before, sorry if it has.

I personally like to think of the OT version, it seems more Taoist. It makes the force a little more mystical and awe inspiring. Why the need to get all technical?


Talking to the force requires great degree of training and concentration. However some individuels appear to have an easier time of this training then others. Luke was able to do in a matter of months what takes most Jedi years to accomplish. This is because both his parents have high midichlorian account. Throughout the original trilogy this is never explained. I think the midichlorians are a good explaination. It also explains why droids can't use the force. Also the midicholorians are not the force. They are simply how living creatures communicate with the force. The force is still a mysterious energy field not a collection of microorganisms.
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I have also always thought that midichlorians were a good explaination of why droids can't use the Force. In fact, I am surprised that it hasn't come up in an explanation of why the Yuzzhan Vong arent in the Force.

And it is obvious that there is more than one view of the Force. Some Jedi, like Vergere, don't even believe in the Dark Side.

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Droids cant use the Force because they are not human, they are things! And to me, the Force is simply the Force, and that's it, there is no midchlorian crap into it.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: ricarleite
Droids cant use the Force because they are not human, they are things! And to me, the Force is simply the Force, and that's it, there is no midchlorian crap into it.


agreed, droids cant use the force because they are not alive. The force is still all around and in them, and has an effect of there existance, but they can not wield it. I am not a big fan of the midi idea either the force was better as a mystic thing, and not a science thing...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v170/Kingsama/samasig.jpg
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I hate the word "mystical" I have an aversion to mysticicsm....



But what I'm saying is that the midichlorians don't make the Force any less mysterious. It still has it's own will,
,and things without cells, such as rocks and droids exist in it. Qui-gon Jinn was obvioulsy mistaken when he asserted that life coluld not exist without midichlorians, as we exist, and The Yuzzhan Vong exist with out them. (Which Ultimately serves to make the Force more mysterious.)

I think it is more like that midichlorians channel the Force into a person, not that they make-up the Force.

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Good and complicated subject, Lethe! Here goes: as Kenobi and Yoda explained in the OT, the Force is a flux that surrounds and binds all things, and was created by life itself. Since we know, us, that there are unseen and unavoidable "forces" (gravitational, nuclear, electro-magnetic) in the world, the idea of harnessing a similar yet life-originated force is one of GL's most memorable and inspiring ones. Midish*t would seem to be a rather useless scientific identification of the physical presence of the Force. Not a bad idea, just, like the whole PT, a disappointing attempt at explanation. Being atheist, I don't want to start an uproar, but I would dare say that the Force as a religion makes more sense than most: natural, universal, proved by concrete manifestations of special powers by gifted and serious beings.... good and complicated subject indeed!
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
I hate the word "mystical" I have an aversion to mysticicsm....



But what I'm saying is that the midichlorians don't make the Force any less mysterious. It still has it's own will,
,and things without cells, such as rocks and droids exist in it. Qui-gon Jinn was obvioulsy mistaken when he asserted that life coluld not exist without midichlorians, as we exist, and The Yuzzhan Vong exist with out them. (Which Ultimately serves to make the Force more mysterious.)

I think it is more like that midichlorians channel the Force into a person, not that they make-up the Force.


Exactly.
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Originally posted by: jimbo
I think the midichlorians are a good explaination. It also explains why droids can't use the force. Also the midicholorians are not the force.


Obi-Wan Kenobi:
* "The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy  field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."

Yoda:
* "Concentrate. Feel the Force flow. Not outside or inside, but part of all it is. Through the Force, things you will see. Reaches across time and space it does. Other places. The future... the past. Old friends long gone. Always in motion is the future."

* "Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? And well you should not. For my ally is the Force. And a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we... not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you. Here, between you... me... the tree... the rock... everywhere!"

* "In balance is the Force. The Dark and the Light. With out one, there is no other. The Dark Side, tempting it is. Quick, easy at first, but a trap is the Dark Side. Corrupting, evil. Once you start down  the Dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. For the Light Side, patience you need. Control. Peace and harmony it is."


These were not good enough explanations for you?

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They are simply how living creatures communicate with the force. The force is still a mysterious energy field not a collection of microorganisms.


And on this we agree.

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
I hate the word "mystical" I have an aversion to mysticicsm....


You have 'an aversion to mysticism' and yet you believe there is a God?
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Goering.

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." - Goebbels.

"In times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - Orwell.
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you could think about it this way: the jedi know about the midichlorians, and thats it. if everybody else knew about them, then they would try and steal one of those gadgets just to see if they had shitloads of midichlorians or not. some time passed between ep3 and ep4, so a lot of people even doubt the existance of that "religion"...
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Originally posted by: motti_soL
you could think about it this way: the jedi know about the midichlorians, and thats it. if everybody else knew about them, then they would try and steal one of those gadgets just to see if they had shitloads of midichlorians or not. some time passed between ep3 and ep4, so a lot of people even doubt the existance of that "religion"...


OK, here's to anyone who prefer the PTs: try watching all the Yoda scenes on TESB keeping in mind all the midchhlorian thing. While Yoda is giving his speach about how "luminous beings we are", and lifting the x-wing with that brillant John Williams score on the background, repeat to yourself: "the Force is measured by midichlorians, only midichlorians" . The whole Yoda thing gets RUINED.
“Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” — Nazi Reich Marshal Hermann Goering
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Originally posted by: Look Sir. Droids!
I've heard that in the EU (expanded universe) there are two schools of jedi. The more Buddhist Jedis and the more Western (will of the force, midoclorian) Jedi.
Any truth to this?




THIS IS IN THE NEW JEDI ORDER BOOKS. IT'S THE MAIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HOW ANAKIN SOLO AND JACEN SOLO VIEW AND USE/SERVE THE FORCE.

"I'VE GROWN TIRED OF ASKING, SO THIS WILL BE THE LAST TIME..."
The Mangler Bros. Psycho Dayv Armchaireviews Notes on Suicide

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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
I have also always thought that midichlorians were a good explaination of why droids can't use the Force. In fact, I am surprised that it hasn't come up in an explanation of why the Yuzzhan Vong arent in the Force.

And it is obvious that there is more than one view of the Force. Some Jedi, like Vergere, don't even believe in the Dark Side.




YOU'L GET YOUR VONG EXPLAINATION IN THE LAST NJO BOOK.

"I'VE GROWN TIRED OF ASKING, SO THIS WILL BE THE LAST TIME..."
The Mangler Bros. Psycho Dayv Armchaireviews Notes on Suicide

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I think a certain testament to the strength of the midiclorian explanation is evident in EP2.

But there is no talk about midiclorians in EP2!

My point exactly.

People showed a general distaste for the midiclorian talk in EP1. So, it was completely absent in EP2. It will likely not be discussed any in EP3.
Likewise, I don't think people liked the sappy Anakin/Padme scenes. As a result, we haven't heard about there being anything like it in EP3.
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Thing about it is in the original trilogy it is never explained why some individuels can use the force better then others. Since the mystic force is all around us why some individuels can use it better has to be something biological. Which is why I like the midichlorian idea.
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Originally posted by: jimbo
Thing about it is in the original trilogy it is never explained why some individuels can use the force better then others. Since the mystic force is all around us why some individuels can use it better has to be something biological. Which is why I like the midichlorian idea.


So, by this explanation, I'm not a professional football player not because I didn't practice, work out, or do drills, it's because I don't have enough hormones in my bloodstream?

Um... okay.
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Originally posted by: ThatArtGuy
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Originally posted by: jimbo
Thing about it is in the original trilogy it is never explained why some individuels can use the force better then others. Since the mystic force is all around us why some individuels can use it better has to be something biological. Which is why I like the midichlorian idea.


So, by this explanation, I'm not a professional football player not because I didn't practice, work out, or do drills, it's because I don't have enough hormones in my bloodstream?

Um... okay.


What about Yodas "The force is strong in your family" That definutly suggests a genetic connection with the force.
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somewhat of a point there.
"The ability to speak does not make you intelligent."
Qui-Gon Jinn (R.I.P.)
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Yeah. The Force has had something to do with genetics since... well... 1983, at least.

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Im glad this thread got a breath of fresh air. Im trying to sort my thoughts on how the force and genetics might work. I mean, if you dont like the midiclorian thing that is.

Its funny that it was brought up about ep2 not having any mention of midiclorians.

P.S. If im spelling that wrong, I dont really care.
"You don't own space, so stop actin' like you do."
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Originally posted by: Lethe
Im glad this thread got a breath of fresh air. Im trying to sort my thoughts on how the force and genetics might work. I mean, if you dont like the midiclorian thing that is.

Its funny that it was brought up about ep2 not having any mention of midiclorians.

P.S. If im spelling that wrong, I dont really care.


Midiclorians are a fine explaination of how the force and genetics relate and why droids can't use the force.