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Question about GOUT's, Opening Crawl, etc.

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are the gouts and the laserdisc exactly the same, or are their differences, I’m currently writing a huge video essay about the Special editions, Star Wars preservations, and those horrible videos by Rick Worley and Nerdonomous. in Rick’s video he claims that the gout has a different crawl from the laserdisc and that the laserdisc has the updated “a new hope crawl” so that he can label the Gout as it’s “own cut” and make the list of Pre-SE cuts bigger to make the originals seem less important. I think this is BS. But too tired to check. can someone tell me?

If anyone is interested in reading the WIP rough essay script here it is:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ipU48nABwFM9NrHiFmiJhumCmMn-WCmyXMmaAmRYqRo/edit?usp=sharing
please inform me about any factual errors.
I’ll keep updating it whenever I am finished with another section.
Cheers.

-TGWNN

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Laserdiscs had the 1981 version of the crawl, which had the ANH name added.

The GOUT appears to have a different version of the crawl and opening shot which doesn’t include this added title, but is identical to the laserdiscs (in terms of what is presented) following that. It was mastered from the same source as the 1993+ laserdiscs, save for the opening shot of ANH.

I know I’ve made some very poor decisions recently.

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Hal 9000 said:

Laserdiscs had the 1981 version of the crawl, which had the ANH name added.

The GOUT appears to have a different version of the crawl and opening shot which doesn’t include this added title, but is identical to the laserdiscs (in terms of what is presented) following that. It was mastered from the same source as the 1993+ laserdiscs, save for the opening shot of ANH.

Thanks man.

-TGWNN

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Yeah I seem to remember the GOUT version wasn’t a 1977 copy but just had the A New Hope title removed just so they could say ‘here you go idiots this is what you wanted right?’

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Mocata said:

Yeah I seem to remember the GOUT version wasn’t a 1977 copy but just had the A New Hope title removed just so they could say ‘here you go idiots this is what you wanted right?’

Ok, I’m glad you told me. He treats it’ as If it’s a separate “cut” so he can expand his list of “cuts” to make the argument that there is no definitive “original” version. the man is insane.

-TGWNN

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It felt more like he was throwing OOT fans his scraps, since it was such a low quality version and a “bonus feature” but I guess this is old news. Of course now time has passed and you have strange people that believe this laserdisc rip represents the quality of that theatrical cuts.

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Mocata said:

It felt more like he was throwing OOT fans his scraps, since it was such a low quality version and a “bonus feature” but I guess this is old news. Of course now time has passed and you have strange people that believe this laserdisc rip represents the quality of that theatrical cuts.

This might have been his intention, to confine the memory of the original cuts to that inferior quality.

-TGWNN

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The 2006 is quite a strange facsimile, as its not at all the theatrical cut. Its just the Definitive collection with worse more compressed audio of the 1993 mix, with the 1977 crawl tacked onto the beginning.

Still its pre–Special Edition if not quite the real deal.

Earlier releases did have the theatrical 35mm mix the Dolby Stereo, so they must just have been incredibly lazy. Seeing how fans could retrieve the audio off of laserdiscs. Or even VHS.

I’m getting up there in age and even I haven’t seen the pre 1981 cut on 35mm in the cinema. It hasn’t been shown in over 40 years. Nobody has seen it since 1980. Beyond an odd screening here or there, but not more wide and broad, no restored print exists.

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JadedSkywalker said:

The 2006 is quite a strange facsimile, as its not at all the theatrical cut. Its just the Definitive collection with worse more compressed audio of the 1993 mix, with the 1977 crawl tacked onto the beginning.

Still its pre–Special Edition if not quite the real deal.

Earlier releases did have the theatrical 35mm mix the Dolby Stereo, so they must just have been incredibly lazy. Seeing how fans could retrieve the audio off of laserdiscs. Or even VHS.

I’m getting up there in age and even I haven’t seen the pre 1981 cut on 35mm in the cinema. It hasn’t been shown in over 40 years. Nobody has seen it since 1980. Beyond an odd screening here or there, but not more wide and broad, no restored print exists.

Interesting, Now I understand why TN1 had such a problem with the 4k77 crawls… If I’m not mistaken they used a different source for that.

-TGWNN

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The actual state of the negative and whether or not there are sufficient good quality sources to restore the film to its original state lie within Lucasfilm itself.

Of course, we can’t leave things up to chance seeing how since 1997 the entire point of Lucas was to erase that the originals ever existed. They were a rough draft, a work in progress he was forced to release, and he was unhappy with them and so, and on.

It’s completely unconscionable to leave it up to Loc and BFI to have to rescue these movies, as is 4k77 wouldn’t even exist if George had done the right thing.

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JadedSkywalker said:

The actual state of the negative and whether or not there are sufficient good quality sources to restore the film to its original state lie within Lucasfilm itself.

Of course, we can’t leave things up to chance seeing how since 1997 the entire point of Lucas was to erase that the originals ever existed. They were a rough draft, a work in progress he was forced to release, and he was unhappy with them and so, and on.

It’s completely unconscionable to leave it up to Loc and BFI to have to rescue these movies, as is 4k77 wouldn’t even exist if George had done the right thing.

That’s exactly my thoughts. This was all George’s purposeful doing. If he had actually wanted to release them, he would’ve.

-TGWNN

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That guy with no name said:

Mocata said:

It felt more like he was throwing OOT fans his scraps, since it was such a low quality version and a “bonus feature” but I guess this is old news. Of course now time has passed and you have strange people that believe this laserdisc rip represents the quality of that theatrical cuts.

This might have been his intention, to confine the memory of the original cuts to that inferior quality.

Lucas basically ‘confirmed’ that intention during the Cannes 2024 interview:

https://youtu.be/AHXLsHOdPiw?si=sUS8sW1F_aEkUfed&t=3190

Rogue One is redundant. Just play the first mission of DARK FORCES.
The hallmark of a corrupt leader: Being surrounded by yes men.
‘The best visual effects in the world will not compensate for a story told badly.’ - V.E.S.
‘Star Wars is a buffet, enjoy the stuff you want, and leave the rest.’ - SilverWook

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Haarspalter said:

That guy with no name said:

Mocata said:

It felt more like he was throwing OOT fans his scraps, since it was such a low quality version and a “bonus feature” but I guess this is old news. Of course now time has passed and you have strange people that believe this laserdisc rip represents the quality of that theatrical cuts.

This might have been his intention, to confine the memory of the original cuts to that inferior quality.

Lucas basically ‘confirmed’ that intention during the Cannes 2024 interview:

https://youtu.be/AHXLsHOdPiw?si=sUS8sW1F_aEkUfed&t=3190

I love how he’s outright lying here. The fully restored original negative of the films existed for a short while in 1997 before they physically inserted the new material into it. and they even scanned that negative in 2K! Right now in the Lucasfilm archive, there exists a 1997 2K scan of the original restored negative, before any alteration. why didn’t they release that?

-TGWNN

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Also, there was a burgeoning underground market in Laserdisc rips prior to the GOUT. Whether this was the intent or not, after the GOUT, Joe Average wasn’t interested in Laserdisc rips anymore. It became an enthusiast-only market.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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CatBus said:

Also, there was a burgeoning underground market in Laserdisc rips prior to the GOUT. Whether this was the intent or not, after the GOUT, Joe Average wasn’t interested in Laserdisc rips anymore. It became an enthusiast-only market.

Also, is it correct that there exists a 2K scan of the original restored print made in 97? we know it was scanned unaltered after they physically resorted it. is it correct to assume that file still exists somewhere?

-TGWNN