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Info Wanted: Question about 1980 uncut Empire

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There was a different cut of Empire shown in Canada (Edmonton, Alberta @ The Paramount in 70mm) I saw on May.25th, 1980 & also on June.1,1980 (at 4 p.m. both times, same theatre).

Many films for some reason during the 70s & 80s shown in theatres here during their initial first runs were indeed different cuts. Some others: Logan’s Run, Star Trek:TMP, ST2:TWOK & Aliens and the Jedi cut (during first run/saw it the first day at old & gone Westmount twin in 70mm) here did have the Vader’s miff with the emperor’s guards.

I’m guessing that Canada had (we did at least until the late 80s I think) the right to cut the films as they see fit because our rating classification system was different than the U.S. during that period. I believe that they usually didn’t bother with any editing and just
rated the film as it was sent. Maybe that isn’t the reason at all. Who knows?
 

Maybe a test cut?

Sometimes these alternate cuts or a similar cut would turn up on television (I’ve heard the reason for this longer=more commercials), but not on videocassette or when the film was re-released later in theatres.

I did not imagine these parts being in the movie. My brother & some friends at the time also complained that some cuts had been made when Empire was re-released again in 1982. The speeder crashing into the walker’s head was the biggy that everyone (here) remembered that signaled some snips & re-editing had been done.

It appears that the U.S. did not see this ‘lost cut’ of Empire as it is never
mentioned by anybody. I have not found anyone else on internet by searching
that has claimed to have seen this cut like us here in Edmonton.
 

The best information I have found so far is this site:

I was looking at this website for info if these cuts could be seen again.
http://www.starwarscutscenes.com/
 

CUT SCENES:

Dead Tauntauns
Yes, this was in.

Bacta Tank
Yes, this was in & it was longer than the site describes I remember the water being red ‘before’ the cut described the med. robot doing something on the
console and then the red clears up. I remember thinking to myself I hope that
isn’t blood. My parents had to take me from the drive-in early from ALIEN which
of course they shouldn’t have taken us kids to.

Wampa Attack
I do remember rebel troops fighting the wampas and trying to hold them off. It was shorter than described on this site. Just some guys in the hall from a side view shooting at the Wampa which you couldn’t see and some brief discussion.

Wampa Trap
Yes this was in.

Bacta Mask
Yes this was in. Luke & Leia conversing more + more love triangle.

General Veers’ Death
Yes this was in & nearly exactly as it is described. Want very badly to see
this cut again!!! The cut walker attack was longer & better.

Troops Meet Wampas
Yes this was in.
 

Not listed:

Han Solo & Leia on Cloud City

conversing & kissing

Han’s Solo Torture

very brief of Han being lowered down and getting shocked/remember sparking when nodes touched his chest.

Luke’s Rescue
Don’t remember the rescue being any different. Not sure about this one.

One more - describes about Luke shooting a Wampa before the walker attack. I don’t recall this one being in the cut I saw. There were likely more very slight cuts than listed on this website. I remember a white C3PO as well inside the Hoth base.

My question is: Does a bootleg of this cut of the film exist within fan circles? How do I get a copy? I am not a collector of Star Wars products or fandom stuff. I simply just want to see my favorite film the way I originally saw it in 1980. Is it possible like with the Deleted Magic film for the original SW?

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Originally posted by: HotRod
Stay of the drugs man...they make you see shit!!

It was all in your mind..from reading comics to radio plays...all in your mind man.

But then again.....




I haven't read any SW comics/books or listened to radio plays etc. I not a collector of any SW products aside from the video cassettes/DVD, some posters I once had and a model of a X-Wing from '79. I like to watch the films and that's about it and read a little SW news on the net once or twice a year to see if any big news (aside for some research about these deleted parts).

I did see this cut I describe & I know what I saw. I happen to have a very good memory & I guess I am one of few out there that did see a possible test cut of the film or a screw-up copy that got to us. Believe it or not, it doesn't really matter to me much, just sick of waiting of these deleted cuts to be released by Lucas & would like to find out if it is possible to see this version again or some of the cuts in decent quality similar to this Deleted Magic film.

If anybody else here knows what I'm talking about please me know.

9 year old on drugs?


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Its true that Canadian theaters at that time had the right to censor films themselves, but this lost cut thing is all in your mind. For starters, the nature of canadian censorship didn't add things to the films--as if some theater in a backwater town in northern ontario, for example, could request copies of the original negatives from Lucasfilm and re-construct scenes. What they did is literally take a pair of scissors and cut out the "dirty' frames. For example, the moment of impact of Luke's hand being lopped off might have been cut--you see Darth swing and then Luke is screaming with his hand already missing. This is the type of stuff that happened. As for the Walker's exploding head, it is doubtful that it was ever filmed, since it would have required complicated special effects and a completed edit. The tauntaun subplot has never been seen, except in brief behind the scenes clips--ask Jambe Davdar, LOL.

Hate to break it to you, but you are imagining this lost cut of Empire. Many people have done similar things with Star Wars as well, and it stems from reading comics, novels, etc, the imagination of little boys living in 1980, and thiry years of time passing.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
Its true that Canadian theaters at that time had the right to censor films themselves, but this lost cut thing is all in your mind. For starters, the nature of canadian censorship didn't add things to the films--as if some theater in a backwater town in northern ontario, for example, could request copies of the original negatives from Lucasfilm and re-construct scenes. What they did is literally take a pair of scissors and cut out the "dirty' frames. For example, the moment of impact of Luke's hand being lopped off might have been cut--you see Darth swing and then Luke is screaming with his hand already missing. This is the type of stuff that happened. As for the Walker's exploding head, it is doubtful that it was ever filmed, since it would have required complicated special effects and a completed edit. The tauntaun subplot has never been seen, except in brief behind the scenes clips--ask Jambe Davdar, LOL.

Hate to break it to you, but you are imagining this lost cut of Empire. Many people have done similar things with Star Wars as well, and it stems from reading comics, novels, etc, the imagination of little boys living in 1980, and thiry years of time passing.


Thank you that was very helpful. I'm glad the SW psychologists have diagnosed my query and put my nearly 27 year old delusion to rest. I can now watch Empire without any question that I was completely mad. All those comics, radio shows etc. that I've never read and never seen a copy of have played with my mind & tormented me all this time using the dark side of the force possibly.



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Ignore these naysayers, keep digging......the truth is out there

FINISHED:
The Sith Revealed - A Scrapbook
Episode III The Video Game - The Movie
24: The Missing Day
Star Wars - The Interactive Board Game DVD
Battlefront - Journal of the 501st
The Clones Revealed

email me for details daveytod AT btinternet DOT com

 

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rancher,

no disrespect, but this sounds like you have seen these scenes in a trailer in the theater and somewhere along the way your memories had these scenes in the movie itself. the problem with the scattered claims of seeing the cut scenes in the theaters is there is no evidence of the scenes ever playing. no bootleg footage, no audio recordings, no confirmations from official sources, no soundtrack releases with extra music that can not be matched to the existing film, nada. it is regrettable, but there is no hard evidence for these scenes to have been seen in the theater.
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Originally posted by: Sluggo
rancher,

no disrespect, but this sounds like you have seen these scenes in a trailer in the theater and somewhere along the way your memories had these scenes in the movie itself. the problem with the scattered claims of seeing the cut scenes in the theaters is there is no evidence of the scenes ever playing. no bootleg footage, no audio recordings, no confirmations from official sources, no soundtrack releases with extra music that can not be matched to the existing film, nada. it is regrettable, but there is no hard evidence for these scenes to have been seen in the theater.


Nope, never saw any trailers for Empire until the DVD set was released. As for the evidence, I know there isn't any on the net that I could see. That must have been some pretty powerful LSD topping on the popcorn for me to have seen these cuts twice eh?

Could it be that the Paramount in Edmonton got a preview test copy? It's not like Edmonton is some backwater city. Why would it be impossible?
I provided the location, dates and exact times. Maybe the SW higher ups can find something out about this in the future.



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Rancher,
Pick up a copy of Jambe Davdar's Building Empire. You can download it from one of the torrent sites, but can't remember which one off the top of my head. He put in all the stuff that is currently available. He did a great job on reconstructing the lost scenes. He mostly had to use pictures, though. Little footage from these have actually been let out by Lucasfilm.
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Originally posted by: rancher
Originally posted by: Sluggo
rancher,

no disrespect, but this sounds like you have seen these scenes in a trailer in the theater and somewhere along the way your memories had these scenes in the movie itself. the problem with the scattered claims of seeing the cut scenes in the theaters is there is no evidence of the scenes ever playing. no bootleg footage, no audio recordings, no confirmations from official sources, no soundtrack releases with extra music that can not be matched to the existing film, nada. it is regrettable, but there is no hard evidence for these scenes to have been seen in the theater.


Nope, never saw any trailers for Empire until the DVD set was released. As for the evidence, I know there isn't any on the net that I could see. That must have been some pretty powerful LSD topping on the popcorn for me to have seen these cuts twice eh?

Could it be that the Paramount in Edmonton got a preview test copy? It's not like Edmonton is some backwater city. Why would it be impossible?
I provided the location, dates and exact times. Maybe the SW higher ups can find something out about this in the future.


I'm not saying impossible, just highly improbable. If any official word came out of LFL (one way or the other) then I'll change my opinion.
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First of all, General Veers' death only appear in earlier versions of the scripts, the third and foruth drafts i think. At this time, storyboarding was being done, so storyboards exist for this scene. However, it was written out of the movie at the next draft, which is why it doesn't appear in the shooting script. It was never filmed.

The wampa attack, I'm sorry to say, could not possibly be seen by--and by anyone, unfortunately--because it was never finished. During filming, the logistics were so problematic that they literally gave up and moved on. So the wampa sequences can never be seen because all that consists is literally a few b-roll shots of soliders reacting and one or two botched close-ups. The sequence can never be seen in its entirety and as a part of the film because narratively it is incomplete.

Han solo's torture and him and Leia kissing on Bespin you probably remember because these things happen in the film! The footage cut for the Leia kiss was from an alternative scene that was re-filmed and would have not appeared past the first rough cut that was assembled mid-way through production (if in fact it made any cut at all). Stuff like the bacta mask and fluid is easy to see that its just exaggerated memories, especially when these shots appeared priminently in the theatrical trailer for film.

Additionally, i believe the rough cut of Empire may still have been made on black and white workprint stock at that time, so obviously the rough cut could not possibly have been screened. Especially being 70mm, you would have to constructed a brand new Interpositive made from the original negatives. Things like this are a big deal--they dont just happen by accident, or "sneak out". There was never any preview screenings with changed footage, and certainly none in 70mm that just happened to make their way to a solitary theater in Edmonton that was only witnessed by a ten year old and his friends. As i said, the very nature of most of these cut scenes makes it impossible for them to have ever gotten out, and they haven't, which is why Lucasfilm has never released them, referenced them or confirmed them in their meticulous "what has changed" lists. To get these scenes would require going back to the original negatives from the archives. Again, I'm not saying that you are crazy or a liar or anything--these types of things are actually common amongst fans, who claim to remember all sorts of alternative versions of the films. I can't say for sure what the source is for these mis-rememberences--kids remember things in very funny ways. Theres a very amusing thread on TFN thats about 50 pages long called "Misconceptions you had about Star Wars when you were a kid" and its filled with all kinds of mis-interpretations of scenes and such.
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Originally posted by: zombie84
First of all, General Veers' death only appear in earlier versions of the scripts, the third and foruth drafts i think. At this time, storyboarding was being done, so storyboards exist for this scene. However, it was written out of the movie at the next draft, which is why it doesn't appear in the shooting script. It was never filmed.

The wampa attack, I'm sorry to say, could not possibly be seen by--and by anyone, unfortunately--because it was never finished. During filming, the logistics were so problematic that they literally gave up and moved on. So the wampa sequences can never be seen because all that consists is literally a few b-roll shots of soliders reacting and one or two botched close-ups. The sequence can never be seen in its entirety and as a part of the film because narratively it is incomplete.

Han solo's torture and him and Leia kissing on Bespin you probably remember because these things happen in the film! The footage cut for the Leia kiss was from an alternative scene that was re-filmed and would have not appeared past the first rough cut that was assembled mid-way through production (if in fact it made any cut at all). Stuff like the bacta mask and fluid is easy to see that its just exaggerated memories, especially when these shots appeared priminently in the theatrical trailer for film.

Additionally, i believe the rough cut of Empire may still have been made on black and white workprint stock at that time, so obviously the rough cut could not possibly have been screened. Especially being 70mm, you would have to constructed a brand new Interpositive made from the original negatives. Things like this are a big deal--they dont just happen by accident, or "sneak out". There was never any preview screenings with changed footage, and certainly none in 70mm that just happened to make their way to a solitary theater in Edmonton that was only witnessed by a ten year old and his friends. As i said, the very nature of most of these cut scenes makes it impossible for them to have ever gotten out, and they haven't, which is why Lucasfilm has never released them, referenced them or confirmed them in their meticulous "what has changed" lists. To get these scenes would require going back to the original negatives from the archives. Again, I'm not saying that you are crazy or a liar or anything--these types of things are actually common amongst fans, who claim to remember all sorts of alternative versions of the films. I can't say for sure what the source is for these mis-rememberences--kids remember things in very funny ways. Theres a very amusing thread on TFN thats about 50 pages long called "Misconceptions you had about Star Wars when you were a kid" and its filled with all kinds of mis-interpretations of scenes and such.


I understand what you are getting at based on the facts that are known and what has been investigated by the experts like yourself. I know the memory of a 9 year old is not very credible at all especially if I'm the only one to have claimed this. I can see why you'd think that it could not have happened. I would have a hard time buying into this claim if it were the other way around.

I truly believe I saw this cut described and nobody is going to change my mind about it. I’d even take a lie detector test regarding this claim & just maybe the doc would tell you I was crazy. Who knows? I swear I saw a very different cut of film & the walker attack, including the speeder crashing into the head of one. But whatever, it is in dispute with what has been set in stone and likely may never turn up because:

a) I’m nuts & that movie melted my brain.
b) Somebody that could possibly dig it up doesn't believe me! Boo-hoo!
c) The man doesn’t want it dug up & never will acknowledge it officially.

I was just hoping that someone out there could lead me to it, some of this missing footage or even tell me what cut was it that I believe I saw. I will look for the torrent mentioned & keep hoping some of these cuts will be raised up from the murky swamp of 1979-80.

You guys sound like a great & extremely dedicated bunch from the other posts I’ve been reading. I hope that maybe somebody could do some new investigation into a possible test cut of the film, it would be a horrifying shame that if what I believe I saw does exist it could escape so many much more hardcore & loyal SW fans than me. Be lost forever.

Thanks everyone for your consideration of my question.


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Hopefully one day we might get to see some of those scenes. I for one have fallen guilty of "creating" a different version of a film. Now don't laugh because this film doesn't even come close to Star Wars. But I rembmer watching this movie on Saturday afternoons in the late 70's. It is called Flesh Eaters and has to do with little flesh eating organisms on an island with a German scientist. I saw it maybe 3 times and not again unti the late 80's when it was released on video. When it was released I picked it up to find it was much cheezier than I remembered it and in black and white! I still have vivid memories of some of the death scenes and they are in full color. Go figure. So young minds are creative and do change things the way we may want them to really be.
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Irvin Kershner( sp) said himself that they dropped the wampa scenes and didn't film them because the suits would not work right and the effects were to expensive and complicated. The only wampa scene ever filmed was the scene involving Luke getting attacked and draged to the cave and proceeding cave scene. So it is impossible that you saw the other scenes, because they were never filmed.


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Taking a lie detector test won't help you since you obviously believe what you have seen.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
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Originally posted by: Marvolo
Irvin Kershner( sp) said himself that they dropped the wampa scenes and didn't film them because the suits would not work right and the effects were to expensive and complicated. The only wampa scene ever filmed was the scene involving Luke getting attacked and draged to the cave and proceeding cave scene. So it is impossible that you saw the other scenes, because they were never filmed.



No, it was not filmed like it was described on this other site. Just some short discussion about the bad wampas and some rebel troops in a doorway facing sideways shooting at the wampa you couldn't see. The wampa was only seen when Luke was attacked at the beginning. If I were Irvin Kershner I would likely say the same thing. It is easier to dismiss these cuts as opposed to having fans want you to account for them in the future. Some say the same type of things when they remove minor features from software that causes more problems that they are worth. I'm not too interested in what anybody that worked on the film says on these matters now as they either can't or don't care to remember accurately or have some other reason. Just produce the footage if you haven't destroyed it.

Anyways, I'm knocking on the impossible door again & there is really no point to it obviously.



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Originally posted by: rancher

c) The man doesn’t want it dug up & never will acknowledge it officially.


I can definitely see this happening. GL loves to rewrite history. (Luke and Leia being related; Luke being Vader's son; 6, 9, or 12 epiosdes, etc.)

To be fair, it is highly, HIGHLY unliky that this strange cut of TESB exists. However, it is POSSIBLE. It is also possible that there is a personal invitation to Skywalker Ranch waiting for me in my mailbox.

If this cut did exist, I'm sure GL rounded up every copy he could, and maybe even destroyed them. For this reason, I think pursuing an official response would be a waste of time.

Rancher, since you feel strongly about this, and since you live in Edmonton, maybe you should do some more research into this yourself. Have you tried contacting the theatre (if they're still open)? Have you tried to ask others in the community if they remember? Are there people in other Canadian cities who remember this?

Don't let a negative response bring you down. I'm sure we would gladly eat crow in trade for some lost secret cut of TESB.

You know of the rebellion against the Empire?

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You may want to check this out:
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=98195&page=1

But my guess is it is a combination of what happens re the article and some actual scenes that were in that print and no other.

The SW trilogies were in high demand, so when that happens typically you end up with a few different cuts running around as various edits get frantically pulled from the shelves to strike another set of prints to keep up with demand. This can happen because the current 'master' is already somewhere else and they need, say another 30 prints for Canada and there is a less than perfect but usuable edit sitting there that could be used.

So I'd guess that some of the scenes you remember are as a result of trailers/advertising/other stuff that you saw since seeing it in 1980 and some were actually there.

When I got my first copy of Star Wars I was disappointed with the scene where Luke is trying to convince Han to rescue Leia. I remembered the dialogue as something like.

Luke: "She's Beautiful"
Han: "yeah, So's life kid"
Luke changes tack: "She's Rich"

When I got my copy, the "She's beautiful" exchange was missing, much I thought to the detriment of the scene. I thought maybe Australia had a different print or something. However no-one else remembered seeing that piece of dialogue, and I couldn't find a single mention of it on the net, so I thought I was nuts.

Then when the SE DVD came out, a guy in the US posts to a board "Does anyone remember Luke trying to get Han to rescue Leia by saying "She's Beautiful" and him replying "So is life kid" before trying the "She's Rich" line.
Nobody on the board did, and in fact they ridiculed him and said it was all in his mind.

Now the chances of two people on different continents remembering the exact same exchange word for word seems beyond statistical probability. This isn't an interperatation of an image, it is actual dialogue, and would be an odd thing for two different people to invent.

So it was either in an early version, or was in a trailer or something somewhere, but I still haven't found it, or even another mention of it *anywhere*.

So you could be right, some of that stuff may have been in your print, but chances are some of it are manufactured memory. (Hiya Bugs old buddy)


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From the databank
When Luke is suspended in the bacta tank in The Empire Strikes Back, the liquid looks largely colorless due to the lighting on the set. Later, when he is recuperating in the medical center, a look at the tank in the background reveals a deep red hue.

From someone's memories on Amazon. (Is it you?)

I am cursed to have seen the BEST version of Empire!, December 9, 2005
Let me explain: I got sick of waiting for Lucas to release the original trilogy on DVD a long time ago and I actually purchased a LaserDisc player and the so-called 'Original' Star Wars trilogy on laserdisc - only it's not the original Empire Strikes Back that I saw in the theater!!

THE MISSING SCENES FROM EMPIRE STRIKES BACK:
1 - The 'Bacta' scene with Luke in the tank and the medical droid was longer. Thre was a point where Luke was floating in the tank and you see this red goo/dye injected into the tank. Then they pull him out and Leia or 21B (the droid) says something like, 'The Bacta are growing well, the scars should be gone in a day or two...'

When I saw 'Empire' in the theater back in 1980 there was another scene I will never forget that I have NEVER seen since except on the earliest of (bootleg?)VHS copies.

2 - In the battle scene on Hoth in 'The Empire Strikes Back', right before General Veers is about to destroy the power generators, Hobby 'kamikazees' the walker with his snowspeeder. He lets out a blood curdling 'Aaaaaaaaaaaaah!!' on his way in. You see the snowspeeder coming in from General Veers perspective from inside the walker then you see the General - the expression on his face is priceless. The walker's head then explodes as the snowspeeder hits it. Another walker then destroys the power gens a little later. The power gen explosion is also different, it is a more pulled-back shot with full view of a nuclear mushroom cloud superimposed over what were the generators.

Also!
CUT SCENE/AUDIO #3
When the snowtroopers enter the base immediately following the battle, there are some scenes cut out of them rushing in to the command center and the audio has been changed to eliminate a PA announcement that says, 'Imperial troops have entered the base, Imperial troops have entered the base! (then Static as it is cut off presumably by the announcer being killed).

I give up.

It turns out that my local theater may have gotten a 'prescreener' version of the film!
I have purchased the 'Special Editions', the original laserdisc releases, and a bootleg DVD set from eBay and I STILL do not have the original trilogy unaltered. Now I am looking for a VHS with everything there...

Lucas, if you were trying to make me broke and insane - good job.
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That's funny, I always thought they put Luke in the tank to restore his body temperature. I never understood it was also a Starship Troopers like tank to repair damaged tissue. The extended scene makes this perfectly clear though. So it should be in.
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Originally posted by: Laserman
From the databank
When Luke is suspended in the bacta tank in The Empire Strikes Back, the liquid looks largely colorless due to the lighting on the set. Later, when he is recuperating in the medical center, a look at the tank in the background reveals a deep red hue.

From someone's memories on Amazon. (Is it you?)

I am cursed to have seen the BEST version of Empire!, December 9, 2005
Let me explain: I got sick of waiting for Lucas to release the original trilogy on DVD a long time ago and I actually purchased a LaserDisc player and the so-called 'Original' Star Wars trilogy on laserdisc - only it's not the original Empire Strikes Back that I saw in the theater!!

THE MISSING SCENES FROM EMPIRE STRIKES BACK:
1 - The 'Bacta' scene with Luke in the tank and the medical droid was longer. Thre was a point where Luke was floating in the tank and you see this red goo/dye injected into the tank. Then they pull him out and Leia or 21B (the droid) says something like, 'The Bacta are growing well, the scars should be gone in a day or two...'

When I saw 'Empire' in the theater back in 1980 there was another scene I will never forget that I have NEVER seen since except on the earliest of (bootleg?)VHS copies.

2 - In the battle scene on Hoth in 'The Empire Strikes Back', right before General Veers is about to destroy the power generators, Hobby 'kamikazees' the walker with his snowspeeder. He lets out a blood curdling 'Aaaaaaaaaaaaah!!' on his way in. You see the snowspeeder coming in from General Veers perspective from inside the walker then you see the General - the expression on his face is priceless. The walker's head then explodes as the snowspeeder hits it. Another walker then destroys the power gens a little later. The power gen explosion is also different, it is a more pulled-back shot with full view of a nuclear mushroom cloud superimposed over what were the generators.

Also!
CUT SCENE/AUDIO #3
When the snowtroopers enter the base immediately following the battle, there are some scenes cut out of them rushing in to the command center and the audio has been changed to eliminate a PA announcement that says, 'Imperial troops have entered the base, Imperial troops have entered the base! (then Static as it is cut off presumably by the announcer being killed).

I give up.

It turns out that my local theater may have gotten a 'prescreener' version of the film!
I have purchased the 'Special Editions', the original laserdisc releases, and a bootleg DVD set from eBay and I STILL do not have the original trilogy unaltered. Now I am looking for a VHS with everything there...

Lucas, if you were trying to make me broke and insane - good job.


No, it is not me at all. I have never posted on Amazon. I have never seen any bootleg VHS tape of these cuts, just at the theatre in 1980 just like I said.

It's good to see that somebody else knows about this on the internet or has gone insane depending on what your willing to accept. I will check it out.

Anyways to stranger's post on Amazon:

#1 - Yup, that is it. That dialogue rings a bell. An impossible, imaginary one of course.

#2 - Absolutely.

#3 - For sure.

In reply to some others posts, no these aren’t invented memories. I had very limited exposure to the SW toys collectables, commercials, specials and whatnot. I was more preoccupied with Hockey than anything else back then. I was never into comics, reading novels or listening to radio plays or even believe or not watching TV very much aside for movies from time to time (usually video rentals). The only time a recall a trailer for Star Wars was on television in 1979 when it was re-released. I did see that one a few times. I just want the meat. The actual films.

The Paramount closed in 2002. But the theatre did have only one very old now owner I think. I doubt that he would remember anything he had owned & operated the theatre I guess since about 1950. Maybe worth taking to if it is possible, especailly if he stashed the reel in his closet. Now that would be farfetched. Yes, other thoughout the years other casual fans also have discussed with me about seeing the same cut as me. I don't need to hunt them down to talk to them about something we already know & agree on. I don't know if they saw it in another city or anything like that, some did see it here just like me. Anyways, I not here really to try to prove whether or not I saw it and it was out there. I know the cut does exsit and just want a copy & just maybe somebody here knew where and how to get it. This seemed like the best place to check.



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Originally posted by: Laserman
The SW trilogies were in high demand, so when that happens typically you end up with a few different cuts running around as various edits get frantically pulled from the shelves to strike another set of prints to keep up with demand. This can happen because the current 'master' is already somewhere else and they need, say another 30 prints for Canada and there is a less than perfect but usuable edit sitting there that could be used.


I'm sorry but this never happens. The studio would never, ever send out some massively-different workprint version of the film out to theaters, and for that matter the master prints would never leave. They don't go out "on loan" unless its to Delux Labs, where they would then just phone them and say "hey print us up 30 more prints for Canada." Additionally, in the unrealistic hypothetical event that the IP was destroyed or lost and a quick batch of prints needed, a slew of other versions of the master would be available--a new IP could be struck from the IN, or if it is merely for a few select Canadian cities getting the debut (ie Vancouver, Edmonton, Montreal and Toronto) they could even just strike second-generation prints from existing ones.

Its just a hard fact that the events being described are not possible. If it is some kind of earlier cut, it would have to be also minus the proper post production, since the post on ESB was literally to the last minute. It would have no music, little special effects shots and a raw on-the-set soundtrack. The soundtracks to the films have to be properly timmed up to the final edit, otherwise a one-frame difference could cause a sync drift. Making a different cut of ESB suitable for theatrical screening, in large-format 70mm no less, is a massive undertaking, and would require going back to the workprints and O-negs, striking new duplicates, splicing the scenes in, re-scoring and additonal sound design work, and then a overall re-timing of the film to make sure everything is all nice. Like i said, its a huge, huge deal, and theres no way that a project as massive as this would only be shown once or twice in Edmonton, and not noticed or talked about by anyone else related to the film as every other minute difference is.

Aside from this logistical improbability, there is also the more important points that i brought up before, which is that most of these scenes were never even filmed. Like Laserman said, its the Bugs Bunny syndrome, which is why so many fans remember weird things, and whose "false memories" even agree with one another.

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Wow, this is very interesting. I first saw ESB in 1980. (Several times) I remember the 2nd time I saw it, I was confused because I thought something was missing. For some reason I remember it being a comunnication thing betwen Han and Leia on Hoth. Thats all I remember. I saw it many, many times after that in the theatre, and it was always the same from then on. However I still remember that 2nd viewing, like it was yesterday, thinking, "this is different. Not sure how, but different".

I was 7 at the time and living in Toronto.

Hmmmm...
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Your eyes can decieve you; don't trust them.
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Originally posted by: 20th Century Mark
Wow, this is very interesting. I first saw ESB in 1980. (Several times) I remember the 2nd time I saw it, I was confused because I thought something was missing. For some reason I remember it being a comunnication thing betwen Han and Leia on Hoth. Thats all I remember. I saw it many, many times after that in the theatre, and it was always the same from then on. However I still remember that 2nd viewing, like it was yesterday, thinking, "this is different. Not sure how, but different".

I was 7 at the time and living in Toronto.

Hmmmm...


I had a nearly indentical experience when I when to see "Aliens" 2 days after the opening night show that I attended, at you guessed it the magical Paramount in Edmonton in 70mm. I couldn't put my finger on it at first and my buddy said the remote guns in the hallway are gone. Yes sir, that was it. I saw it 6 times without the guns that summer and 1 with the guns. There were other cuts that a few other people we knew noticed when they saw it again.

So Scotty in Chicago left that review. Not me. It is funny that he calls the experience of seeing the preview cut a curse. I think it's not having a copy to watch again is the true curse.

Reviews Written by
Scott Jones "Scoot" (Chicago IL)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AKXJGCWUAUESK/002-7884982-3450463?ie=UTF8&display=public&page=2