Puggo Strikes Back! (Released) — Page 25

I *think* HH converted his 5.1 projects into dedicated stereo but he'd have to chime in here.

EDIT: nevermind, according to his topic

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-1977-70mm-sound-mix-recreation-stereo-and-51-versions-now-available/topic/11348/

He only did stereo conversions for A New Hope.

But hey, I totally understand not wanting to do 5.1. Good luck! I can't wait to see it!

Hairy Hen did/does all his work in 2.1; they were then expanded into 5.1 with a DPL2 compatible plugin. (The original '93 soundtracks were DPL/DPL2 encoded? I forget.)

Ok, it looks like Mallwalkers were bit accurate digital rips from the 1989 CLV disks.  The ones Silverwook sent me were, I think, from slightly earlier CAV disks (and I don't know if they were captures or digital rips).  CAV is supposed to be slightly higher quality, right?  If the above is all correct, then what would be better, a digital rip of a CLV, or an analog capture of a CAV ?

It's analog with CX noise reduction of the earliest U.S. CAV edition recorded off my oldest player, which generally has better analog reproduction than my other machines. The SW and Empire CAV's do not have digital tracks.

I am not familiar with the specs for Mallwalker's capture.

Ok, I'll give them both a listen.

After listening to segments of both, I think I'll go with Mallwalker's... to my ears it sounds like it has is a little bit more detail.

Do we know for sure Empire's mix wasn't futzed with on the later releases pre DC?

SilverWook said:

Do we know for sure Empire's mix wasn't futzed with on the later releases pre DC?

I did some extensive comparison with headphones between the original 35mm Dolby Stereo, analog LD track and digital LD track quite recently and I couldn't notice any single difference other than minor differences in fidelity. I'm pretty sure they used the same mix over and over again but someone else may think differently. It's difficult to prove of course but content wise I'm 99.9% sure they are the same mix. I would be glad if someone would chime in and prove me wrong but I guess until someone asks Burtt about it we will never know for sure.

I'll take your word for it then. :)

Maybe hairy_hen have something to say about it as he have worked with the tracks quite much and have a great pair of ears, but I'm pretty sure. Will be very interesting to hear what shape the mono is in on the prints, I also hope the missing frames on the LD's don't cause to much trouble when you're about to sync the audio Puggo.

Syncing with the 16mm is always tedious. There are always some strange splices and missing frames to deal with.  It should be easier than syncing with the 16mm audio though (ironically), because capturing the 16mm sound involves a warbly old analog machine.  The frame-by-frame video capture is solid time-wise, but the audio is captured separately on a completely different machine in real-time. In some ways, the digital rip should be easier to sync because it is matching one solid track with another.

Ok, reel 1 sync with MW's audio is done.  It went pretty much as expected.  A couple of rough spots, requiring me to cut the audio into three pieces and then stretch them each independently.  Had to play with the splice area so there wouldn't be a gap.  But overall it only took about an hour or two... much easier than syncing with the 16mm audio.

MW's audio rip is 44.1.  Will upsample to 48, then convert to ac3.

Will start on reel 2 tomorrow.

CAV and CLV are to me image-wise like 33 1/3 and 45rpm records. You get a higher fidelity with one, but it isn't a deal breaker to have the other.

On ESB I don't know if really any changes were made on the editions throughout the 80's, save for some possible re-equalizing here and there. The 89 era sound should be fine as an alternate. The stereo surround on DJ's V3 as an ac3 track came from an early LD that was not time compressed and is supposedly the theatrical. It's analog sourced as well, probably very similar if not identical to what Silver gave you.

Imagine heading to a small derelict theater in late 1980 and catching a late show of ESB...32 years on. !

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

It should be easier than syncing with the 16mm audio though (ironically), because capturing the 16mm sound involves a warbly old analog machine.  The frame-by-frame video capture is solid time-wise, but the audio is captured separately on a completely different machine in real-time.

Hmm, maybe that explains my trouble getting the THX audio in sync with the 16mm footage you sent me.

Yes, what Puggo is saying makes complete sense. It's much easier working with digital tools because we know the framerate will always be at a constant. When you're working with film projectors (especially ones built for home use), they tend to fluctuate between speeds. It's almost never at 24fps solid. Of course it's so minute we never notice (although sometimes the sound can give it away. Pianos for example sound warbled on 16mm optical).

Because Puggo captured the sound from a projector, he has to deal with all of those subtle dips and ups in speed, whereas his picture is pretty much locked solid at 23.9fps thanks to the capturing device.

Of course, he could have just pointed a camcorder at the wall and filmed the projection and the sound would have remained in sync... But the quality would have suffered immensely.

Audio just crapped out on my workstation.  That will delay my work for about a week while I get it fixed.

Damn Imperial spies...

Are you sure the hyperdrive on the Millennium Puggo is deactivated?

--No, but we did manage to knock out the audio processor.

VADER FACEPALMS ;)

Won't be back to work on it until Monday.

Audio back up and running on my workstation.  Work resumes!

Great news :-)

Just finished synching reel 2.  This one was tougher - had to cut it into about 10 pieces.  And there was a strange splice that required me to use about a quarter second of the mono mix to smooth over.

Finished the extra.

Started collecting the pieces for the "making of".  Still have a lot to do on that.

Will work on the sync of the third and final reel later today or tomorrow morning.