Puggo Strikes Back! (Released) — Page 24

Great news, looking forward to seeing it!

Can't wait! Now to prep a midnight release party with vinegar smells, burnt popcorn and the works. ;)

captainsolo said:

Can't wait! Now to prep a midnight release party with vinegar smells, burnt popcorn and the works. ;)

Don't forget the droppings.

Yeah, don't forget to unleash the mice!

I almost forgot that I was planning to sync up a stereo alternate track.

Any suggestions as to the source?  Has someone out there already made a high-quality unsquashed grab from a laserdisc that could be usee?

Morgan's ESB 70mm in theater recording won't sync without additional video editing due to the different cut that the 70mm version is though, maybe Mallwalker's LD rip of the 35mm stereo posted on the newsgroup could be of use?

Looking forward to this one, you and Jaxxon are doing the sw-community a great service by preserving these gems! :)

I will have to sync the audio manually regardless of the source... the 16mm film has lots of little issues, some splices, etc. and so the frames don't align exactly with any other source.

So I'm more interested in hearing which audio would be most desired.  Preferably something not overly compressed, and close to what would have originally been heard when the film was first released, in a nice theater.

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

I will have to sync the audio manually regardless of the source... the 16mm film has lots of little issues, some splices, etc. and so the frames don't align exactly with any other source.

So I'm more interested in hearing which audio would be most desired.  Preferably something not overly compressed, and close to what would have originally been heard when the film was first released, in a nice theater.

The rip by Mallwalker is the original 35mm Dolby Stereo in lossless PCM, but there's many missing frames on the source that comes from, so you'll probably need to patch some audio from the remastered '93 LD track which is more complete.

The 70mm audio would've been great but in order to get the 70mm in theatre audio in sync you'll need to completely re-edit the ending of the film which no one wants or keep it silent for the places were it doesn't sync up. There's also a short missing segment in the recording which occurs in the wampa cave.

Is the audio on the print in mono?

Yes the audio on both prints is a mono fold down.

What about the 83 stereo mix on Harmy's project? It's synced to the gout and must be pretty complete.

There's also the Theatrical Stereo that was on DJ's GOUT V3, which IIRC came from an early LD that wasn't time compressed. It may be the same or very similar to Mallwalker's.

It will be interesting to hear the folddown. Maybe they used all channels and basically made an identical mono mix.

Seriously beyond excited about this. The mice are already looking like the tunnel of rats under the Istanbul Russian consulate with their excitement. ;)

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

So there's Harmy's, DJ's, and Mallwalker's (so far).  I have to confess that I'm pretty ignorant of the various mixes of ESB.  So I'm going to largely rely on you folks out there to discuss this in the thread, and hopefully come to some sort of concensus, on which would be best for PSB.  I don't think that I could realistically have more than 2 mixes due to space limitations on a DVD-5.  And one will definitely be the 16mm.  So that means we have to decide on 1 more.

Don't forget someone already sent you some LD audio captures of the early releases a while back. ;)

If I remember correctly, there's the 1980 original, the 85 remix (which isn't different content wise from the 80 mix, just sonically adjusted for homevideo), the 93 remix which is missing a landspeeder crash sound (I think...?) and finally hairy hen's 5.1 purist mix which I believe is the 93 mix with a few fixes to make it more like the 80 mix and a discreet channel added.

There's also a mix hairy hen did in which he changed a few cues to make them sound better. This is not a purist mix, but him fixing things that bothered him in the original mix.

My vote might be for the purist mix... A nice surround sound mix. Don't know how easy it would be to edit multi track audio...

none said:

How about Mr. Morgan's ESB 70mm in theater recording: http://www.wideanglecloseup.com/starwarsaudio.html (scroll down)

OT.com thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/ESB-70mm-Soundtrack-1980-in-theatre-recording/topic/12501/page/1/

I second this.

Using a High(ish) Quality audio would be totally out of place. Imagine if you had a missing section of video and replaced it with 2004 DVD or 2011 Blu Ray footage? It would be out of place...

My second choice would be the DJ V3 theatrical stereo and third would be the Definitive Collection commentary track as seen on the Dr Gonzo DVD.

Going off at a complete tangent, how about an isolated score like the one on the DJ V3.

I have highlighted some of the different dialogue differences here...

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/The-Definitive-tractor-beam-Close-the-blast-doors-Blast-it-Biggs-Wedge-you-dont-taste-very-good-Noooooo-Preservation-Guide/topic/13428/

If there are any gaps you can help me fill in, I would appreciate it.

I'm with you Joel. We already have the crackly, poppy mono 16mm optical track. Why should the alternate be another low-fi recording?

I'm down with having the original mono "grindhouse" track and a nice cleaned up digital track.

Great news about this nearing completion. How soon do you think the HD version will follow the DVD?

Mavimao said:

What about the 83 stereo mix on Harmy's project? It's synced to the gout and must be pretty complete.

What's the 83 stereo mix?

I also believe Puggo don't want to work and make his editing based on AC-3 tracks.

Ha! Sorry, I'm jetlagged and got confused with ROTJ. Not to mention the other craptastic posts I've been making lately. I meant to say 80 stereo mix.

Back to the topic, isn't there a lossless file somewhere? Who even made this in the first place? DJ?

In any case I think HH's purist mix would be awesome. Same as the stereo mix but with a lot of umph to it, but I would understand if people want the real deal and in the end it's Puggo's call.

Mavimao said:

Ha! Sorry, I'm jetlagged and got confused with ROTJ. Not to mention the other craptastic posts I've been making lately. I meant to say 80 stereo mix.

Back to the topic, isn't there a lossless file somewhere? Who even made this in the first place? DJ?

In any case I think HH's purist mix would be awesome. Same as the stereo mix but with a lot of umph to it, but I would understand if people want the real deal and in the end it's Puggo's call.

Ah ok, I suspected you meant the original stereo mix but I just wanted to be sure what you meant, no problem.

As mentioned earlier, Darth Mallwalker's rip of the digital stereo is avaliable on the newsgroup, so if you want to go with the original stereo mix that's my suggestion or one of the LD audio captures SilverWook apparently sent you if I understand it correctly.

The audio was never remixed in '85, more of a remastering took place if anything was done at all. In preparation for the '93 LD (GOUT) they went back to the 4-track master mix which was supplemented with bass from a sound effects master, the result is a fantastic Dolby Surround track which is largely authentic to the original 35mm stereo mix but with a much greater dynamic range and additional low frequency enhancement, one sound effect accompanying one of the crashing snowspeeders is oddly enough not present in this track though.

My vote goes to the original stereo mix even if the mono track on the prints is a fold down of it, but as Mavimao said, in the end it's your call Puggo. IMO the mono track on the prints will be fine and interesting to hear and whatever alternate track you ultimately choose will just be a nice bonus.

Some audio trivia from in70mm Michael Coate's article, "Empire was released in at least five different formats in its original release: (1) 35mm with optical mono soundtrack, (2) 35mm with optical Stereo Variable Area (Dolby) soundtrack, (3) 35mm with mag-optical soundtrack (magnetic 4-track + optical mono), (4) 70mm six-track Dolby-encoded magnetic, (5) 70mm six-track non-Dolby-encoded magnetic."

[quote=msycamore]

In preparation for the '93 LD (GOUT) they went back to the 4-track master mix which was supplemented with bass from a sound effects master, the result is a fantastic Dolby Surround track which is largely authentic to the original 35mm stereo mix but with a much greater dynamic range and additional low frequency enhancement, one sound effect accompanying one of the crashing snowspeeders is oddly enough not present in this track though.

Can anyone link me to hairy hen's esb audio thread?  I can't seem to find it.

Never mind, I think I found it.

Ok, I'm not interested in using a 5.1.  So was hairy hen's ESB mix only 5.1?  If so, I think I'll use an LD rip.  I have one that Silverwook sent me, and Mallwalker's that none sent me.  Silverwook, can you contrast those two choices?  Is the one you sent me a digital rip, or an analog capture?