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Puggo GRANDE - 16mm restoration (Released) — Page 22

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The original TEXAS CHAIN SAW MASSACRE was also shot on 16mm and looks fantastic on blu-ray!  http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews41/the_texas_chain_saw_massacre_blu-ray.htm

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

It bugs me when I see a cheap-ass transfer on a great classic.

Couldn't agree more.  A couple of my favorite movies spring to mind that have never been 100% perfectly transferred for DVD.  For instance,  SUSPIRIA has been released many times, including a new Blu-ray this year in Europe but nobody seems capable of getting it right!  They keep coming oh-so-close, but still no cigar.

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The transfer for Evil Dead looks phenomenal.  But the Army of Darkness transfer had too much dvnr and the actors faces looked like plastic.

I hope for a new master.  It is obvious they used the previous HD master from the DVD release that already had the digital video noise reduction applied.

That is what i cannot stand when studios dump HD masters to blu ray disc, sometimes as in the case with star trek 6 the HD master was from technology locked into the year 2001.  Talk about a craptastic transfer.  Good enough for DVD, blu ray forgot it the edge enhancement is the pits.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Puggo, any chance we could see some screens of the Swedish print? No pressure, but ever since I saw the behind-the-scenes I've always been curious to see how it looked - especially after I saw how well you handled the red tint on the PSA!

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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bkev said:

Puggo, any chance we could see some screens of the Swedish print? No pressure, but ever since I saw the behind-the-scenes I've always been curious to see how it looked - especially after I saw how well you handled the red tint on the PSA!

For my first pass on the Swedish print, I treated it like the PSA and used the CMYK virtualdub filter and the colors looked pretty decent, particularly in the opening scenes.  But as I went through it scene by scene, I noticed that removing that much red caused a lot of detail to disappear elsewhere in the movie.  I started going through scene by scene with different levels of red reduction, and decided it wasn't worth the effort.  I decided to just do a rough preserve of the film with a modest red reduction and leave it at that.  I've got a pretty serious queue of more interesting SW projects to do afterwards.

So again, don't get your hopes too high!  It is marginally interesting for the subtitles.  And for the fact that it seems to be equally-badly cropped - except on the TOP instead of on the bottom like the PG.  For completists only.  Oh, but there will be another surprise extra. :)

I'll start a new thread and post a few screen shots on my website.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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Fortunately I am a completist. And a SW junkie. And a celluloid obsessed one at that.

This is gong to be lots of fun-thanks!!!

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader

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Anyone know of any place to DL the Puggo Grande?

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Puggo you magnificent bastard, I finally got around to downloading this a few days ago and its so much fun! An amazing, unique project. Part of me wishes this was done in HD because I'm sure there is more quality to squeeze out than a DVD can make apparent. Anyway, very cool. Made me nostalgic for the Star Wars 1977 midnight screening I never had, LOL.

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

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I just found out about this (i've been a member forever, but am really inept with torrents/making my own dvds/etc. so I don't keep up with this stuff too much)

Keeping in mind that i've only successfully made one backup of a store bought dvd and failed several times at using torrents to get fan edits (& then failing to be able to make my own dvd of said fan edits), could someone help me out with getting this?  I'm willing to waste as many dvd-r's as it takes to make a copy I can actually watch on my tv....

Oh, (sorry for not reading all 22 pages...) does the transfer make for an anamorphic dvd? (i.e., no having to zoom in on 16x9 tvs)?

THANKS!

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rsortor said:

A couple of my favorite movies spring to mind that have never been 100% perfectly transferred for DVD.  For instance,  SUSPIRIA has been released many times, including a new Blu-ray this year in Europe but nobody seems capable of getting it right!  They keep coming oh-so-close, but still no cigar.

Yes, it really bugs me to not have a good copy of Suspiria, I still think the old Anchor Bay release have a great transfer but unfortunately it doesn't include the original 4.0 audio mix. The remix is totally f***ed up on that disc. :(

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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zombie84 said:

Puggo you magnificent bastard, I finally got around to downloading this a few days ago and its so much fun! An amazing, unique project. Part of me wishes this was done in HD because I'm sure there is more quality to squeeze out than a DVD can make apparent. Anyway, very cool. Made me nostalgic for the Star Wars 1977 midnight screening I never had, LOL.

Thanks for the high praise, Zombie.  Had you actually seen a midnight screening in 1977, the quality would have been considerably better - pristine in fact (I know, because I had one).  However, it does indeed remind me of that mid-80s screening (was it 1984? 1985?) of the entire trilogy at the local theater, which lasted well past midnight... that was grunge city but a heck of a lot of fun. Although I remember being a bit sad that the film looked so beat up.

Speaking of film getting beat up... about 10 years ago I saw the newly-restored "2001" in 70mm at the Castro Theater, must have been one of the first stops on a tour that lasted several years.  What I saw was razor sharp, and not a speck in sight - the most beautiful image I'd ever seen on screen.  Five years later, a friend of mine saw it in Minnesota (I'm guessing the same 70mm print), and said it didn't look that great. That's what life on the road will do to you.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

mcfly89 said:

I'm very excited about this, but we have to find a way to capture in HD. Can't we swap an HDV camera for the DV one in the workprinter?

It is possible to upgrade the Workprinter for HD, but it would take hundreds if not thousands of $ in equipment.  A new video card, something called a "velocity box", and several software upgrades.  And of course a good HD camera with manual adjustments.  And if you're going to do that, you might as well get the RGB upgrade too.  Considering this isn't an actual scope scan (it's faked in software), and that there is likely to be cropping like in the PG, and it's not a wetgate transfer, I'm not sure it's worth the cost and effort.

It is hard for me to believe that any 16mm scan, even from the most pristine of prints, could possibly come anywhere close to the corrected GOUTs.  I think of the PG and other similar captures as reference material for people researching what was printed on the films back in the years they were made. That reason is enough for me to get excited about transferring them. But you can always make it a little better, and once you start down, there's practically no end.

Perhaps there's a low-cost way to determine how much information is in this print. In theory, 16mm film is 1920x1080 resolution or better, so under ideal conditions, it would blow the GOUT away. Real life is unfortunately unkind to "theory."

Here's what I propose: if you can pause the film in the workprinter and take one still with a DSLR (similar to what's been posted, except with careful manual focus and several different exposures which could be combined using the HDR technique to get the full dynamic range of the print), then we can hold that high resolution image up against the GOUT and do a little color correction, and see how it holds up. Wouldn't be expensive or take a lot of time, because we're just talking about one or a couple stills.

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mcfly89 said:

Here's what I propose: if you can pause the film in the workprinter and take one still with a DSLR (similar to what's been posted, except with careful manual focus and several different exposures which could be combined using the HDR technique to get the full dynamic range of the print), then we can hold that high resolution image up against the GOUT and do a little color correction, and see how it holds up. Wouldn't be expensive or take a lot of time, because we're just talking about one or a couple stills.

I'll try to do that when I get the ESB prints.  I don't have the SW prints any more.  It's a good idea.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

zombie84 said:

Puggo you magnificent bastard, I finally got around to downloading this a few days ago and its so much fun! An amazing, unique project. Part of me wishes this was done in HD because I'm sure there is more quality to squeeze out than a DVD can make apparent. Anyway, very cool. Made me nostalgic for the Star Wars 1977 midnight screening I never had, LOL.

Thanks for the high praise, Zombie.  Had you actually seen a midnight screening in 1977, the quality would have been considerably better - pristine in fact (I know, because I had one).  However, it does indeed remind me of that mid-80s screening (was it 1984? 1985?) of the entire trilogy at the local theater, which lasted well past midnight... that was grunge city but a heck of a lot of fun. Although I remember being a bit sad that the film looked so beat up.

Speaking of film getting beat up... about 10 years ago I saw the newly-restored "2001" in 70mm at the Castro Theater, must have been one of the first stops on a tour that lasted several years.  What I saw was razor sharp, and not a speck in sight - the most beautiful image I'd ever seen on screen.  Five years later, a friend of mine saw it in Minnesota (I'm guessing the same 70mm print), and said it didn't look that great. That's what life on the road will do to you.

I saw 2001 about 4 months ago, and it looked the best I have ever seen it, even compared to the Blu Ray. Not a speck of dirt, and sharp as a tack. Obviously not an original release print, and in 35mm, but I was aghast at how prestine it looked. Guess that re-issue varied across the continent. The Bloor cinema in Toronto seems to screen that print about twice a year, one of their regular rotations the last while. Sadly, I suppose it will get a tiny bit worse each time they play it.

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

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zombie84 said:

I saw 2001 about 4 months ago, and it looked the best I have ever seen it, even compared to the Blu Ray. Not a speck of dirt, and sharp as a tack. Obviously not an original release print, and in 35mm, but I was aghast at how prestine it looked. Guess that re-issue varied across the continent.

Interesting.  The one I saw was 70mm, and so was the one my friend saw in Minnesota 5 years later. It made my jaw drop, but my friend said it was quite rough.  I suppose there are some 35mm prints going around too... not every theater can handle 70mm (obviously).

The blu-ray still makes my jaw drop.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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My memories of seeing Return of the Jedi are based on a pristine 35mm Lpp print from 1985 so no DVD is ever going to replicate that especially the GOUT.

When i had money i had looked for jedi on 16mm and super8mm, now that i don't have that kind of money the hope of ever seeing it on film again is zero.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I downloaded this on Friday and have watched it twice already. Sure, the quality isn't great but it's definitely more than watchable. Thank you so much for taking the time to do it. I really cannot wait to see your transfer of Empire...

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Empire will be a challenging transfer - more challenging than SW.  The snow scenes on Hoth will probably take several passes to get right.  They were really difficult in super8, and ended up a bit crushed.  I'll be more careful with the 16mm version.  If the prints are as good as reported, I'm hoping the end result will be better.  But I know already it won't be easy.

Thanks for the kind words!

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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Puggo, maybe this was brought up in the 22 pages of this thread, but I haven't come across it on your website or in the recent pages. But I'm curious what sort of camera you have been using for the  captures. My second question was if it isn't an HD camera, would you ever consider modding the workprinter to install one? Because I really think it could make a difference, especially ESB which looks like it has more detail than the Star Wars reels. The release needn't necessarily be in HD itself.

The Secret History of Star Wars -- now available on Amazon.com!

"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

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zombie84 said:

Puggo, maybe this was brought up in the 22 pages of this thread, but I haven't come across it on your website or in the recent pages. But I'm curious what sort of camera you have been using for the  captures. My second question was if it isn't an HD camera, would you ever consider modding the workprinter to install one? Because I really think it could make a difference, especially ESB which looks like it has more detail than the Star Wars reels. The release needn't necessarily be in HD itself.

Yes, it has been discussed quite a bit on the thread.  My WorkPrinter as configured won't keep up with an HD camera.  The mods necessary are significant, and listed at www.moviestuff.tv.

The camera I use is a TRV-900, which is 3-chip but not HD.  It's not the best camera in the world, but it does have manual focus, very good low-light performance, and decent white balance and aperature control. It is a popular camera for this sort of work. I have a good, dark room in which to do the captures.  There would be a slight but not necessarily noticeable improvement if I switched to something like an XL2 or a VX2100. But it still wouldn't be an HD capture.

It is my opinion that the expense to upgrade to HD isn't warranted given the condition and other more important "issues" of the 16mm films.  We're faking the scope capture in software. The cropping inherent in the film is horrendous (something like 15%). There are furballs fixed into the print. Most have varying degrees of red shift.  There are many missing frames.

There will always be ways to make slight improvements.  But in summary, I'm not willing to invest in the HD mods to upgrade a crap into a turd. :)

By the way, I did have the WorkPrinter modified to have the gate enlarged which is necessary for working with scope prints.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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Fantastic to hear that you will be working on a 16mm ESB print, as the puggo grande was great to watch.

When you talk about missing frames in the 16mm is this because of a bad transfer when the print was made during the drop down from 35mm to 16mm? Just curious what would cause that.

 

 

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Hi there!

Thanks puggo for the awesome work you did! Truly remarkable!

Sadly i found no link to download, would someone mind to pm me more information?

Keep up the good work!