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Puggo GRANDE - 16mm restoration (Released) — Page 21

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SilverWook said:

Somebody here does know where the Ebay print ended up. See above...

 

Oh. My bad.   And I agree that the discussion of the value of something like this seems to be out of whack.  As if anyone can go down to their neighborhood film store and pick up a 'scope print of ESB for the going rate!  I've checked eBay film auctions weekly for over two years and this was the first time I'd ever seen one available!

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No problem, rsortor.  Jaxxon was a bit dismayed, but I bought him a carrot cake, and everything is fine now.

I've been tracking these things since 2006, (by keeping the Ebay auctions bookmarked long after the listings are gone) and this is likely only the fourth time an ESB 16mm print has popped up.

In the future, your connections at that forum might be very useful. :)

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Too bad nobody has scored a 16mm print of jedi like that pristine one offered on the 8mm forum boards for 16mm films.

I don't have that kind of money or i would have been the first one to contact the person offering the print.

My only problem would have been even if i had the money are these foreign prints with the english audio re-recorded from laserdisc or DVD.

The dubious origin printed in the 1990's ?

The only real print i know of that is authentic is the derann films super8mm release as they had the rights to produce them for a limited time from Lucasfilm.  Taken from a 35mm release print with the sound in a mono fold down of the theatrical stereo.

 

Film collecting is a rather fun hobby but requires a lot of money, you need the equipment to screen them and the space.  Biggest problem is storage to prevent age and slow down vinegar syndrome.

Even if properly stored there is no guarantee if the stock is Eastman pre-lpp .  The guy who had the empire 70mm prints on ebay i think had his stored in a cool dry place for over twenty years and they still turned to pink.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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The Blue Harvest situation is hopeful.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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skyjedi2005 said:

 ...are these foreign prints with the english audio re-recorded from laserdisc or DVD.

The seller told me that the original owner who sold him this print was from the U.S.of A.  The sound is optical so unlike super-8 mag stripes, it can't be dubbed over.  The print is in English, btw..

The only real print i know of that is authentic is the derann films super8mm release as they had the rights to produce them for a limited time from Lucasfilm.

I didn't know Derann offered ESB but ANH was exclusive through them for awhile.  Only one of those super-8 ANH prints has been sold on eBay in the past two years that I know of.. 

Classic Home Cinema in  the UK used to offer a super-8 'scope print of ESB sourced from the German version that they re-dubbed into English but the opening scroll was still in German.  I tried to obtain a copy of  this print, which I was informed was still available last year on a special-order basis but apparently they've stopped production altogether. 

..there is no guarantee if the stock is Eastman pre-lpp

There are ways of identifying film stock.  Here's a webpage that offers a useful guide: http://www.paulivester.com/films/filmstock/guide.htm

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Okay folks!  I screened the film again last night and took lots of screenshots. 

There are fifty more pics in the Photobucket album here: http://s321.photobucket.com/albums/nn388/sixpakcinema/ESB%2016mm/

#2 and #3 in the album are video clips that are playing back pretty herky-jerky on my computer for some reason.  All were taken with an old Canon A530 digital camera while the film was projected on an eight-foot wide screen in my living room.  None have been photoshopped 'cept the image above which I cropped and resized. 

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Thanks for posting the clips and pics, that is a fine print!

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Wow the color is pretty stunning for a 16mm print, it really does almost look as good as a 35mm print, maybe better because of no fading.

Now that makes me wonder what the return of the jedi print looked like.

Too bad there was no star wars print like these.

Derann only had star wars and return of the jedi not empire.  The classic home cinema release from what i have read was of medium quality.  With lots of wear being taken from a release print.  Burn marks and scratches, and not the best image quality.  Somewhat murky i think.

Don't know about derann's jedi print, but a new hope aka star wars 77 was supposedly slightly cropped.

 

As for 70mm prints how many are not pink and have the dire shrinkage on the magnetic track.  I think that was what happened to the jedi print someone once offered, since the seller claimed the audio was out of sync with the picture.  As far as i know the only person who has claimed to have seen a pristine 70mm print of star wars in recent years was Steve Hoffman, the guy who did the initial restoration of raiders of the lost ark soundtrack for DCC classics.  Another restoration was recently done by a different record company without his involvement.

 

Certain films i wish i could see in a restored 70mm theatrical print, are Star Trek II the wrath of khan, Star Trek the motion picture. Raiders of the lost ark, star wars, empire strikes back, and return of the jedi, superman.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Very nice indeed!

Did you take any pics of the ending? That's where the visual differences from the 70mm are supposed to be.

It's definitely a from a U.S. source as the MPAA rating tag is there.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

Did you take any pics of the ending? That's where the visual differences from the 70mm are supposed to be.

The Photobucket album represents about half of the shots I took.  Discarded ones were either kinda redundant, blurry, exposed too long and caught multiple frames or I forgot to turn the flash off & got a mostly white screen!  Kinda ran out of steam at the end but I assure you, it's not the 70mm version.  Leia says, "I know where Luke is," the Falcon dish is there when Luke falls and there are dissolves between the shots of Luke and Vader during the "Father" & "Son" exchange.  Darn it..

Another thing I noticed, this print is a smidgen dark, which virtually eliminates all the garbage mattes!

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rsortor said:

Another thing I noticed, this print is a smidgen dark, which virtually eliminates all the garbage mattes!

Brightness/darkness of the print is virtually inconsequential on the workprinter... illumination of the frames has a huge range of adjustment. They of course will also come out considerably sharper, so it's hard to judge from your pictures how scratched it might be. But the color balance in your shots bodes very well.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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Several of the lost Dr. Who episodes only exist because 16mm prints were found. That was a broadcast medium back then. It was also the rental format of choice before VHS... I remember my great uncle used to rent Disney films and a projector occasionally and we'd sit out in his backyard to watch a movie.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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I'm very excited about this, but we have to find a way to capture in HD. Can't we swap an HDV camera for the DV one in the workprinter?

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mcfly89 said:

I'm very excited about this, but we have to find a way to capture in HD. Can't we swap an HDV camera for the DV one in the workprinter?

It is possible to upgrade the Workprinter for HD, but it would take hundreds if not thousands of $ in equipment.  A new video card, something called a "velocity box", and several software upgrades.  And of course a good HD camera with manual adjustments.  And if you're going to do that, you might as well get the RGB upgrade too.  Considering this isn't an actual scope scan (it's faked in software), and that there is likely to be cropping like in the PG, and it's not a wetgate transfer, I'm not sure it's worth the cost and effort.

It is hard for me to believe that any 16mm scan, even from the most pristine of prints, could possibly come anywhere close to the corrected GOUTs.  I think of the PG and other similar captures as reference material for people researching what was printed on the films back in the years they were made. That reason is enough for me to get excited about transferring them. But you can always make it a little better, and once you start down, there's practically no end.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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If John Carpenter's Dark Star ever gets a BluRay release, (a new remastered DVD is coming out this year) we might find out how good 16mm can look in HD.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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The Evil Dead was shot on 16mm was it not?

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan

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Indeed it was. I didn't even know it was out on Blu already!

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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You bet! Check out these screens.

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan

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Wow! 16mm looks great on blu.

However nice it would be for this ESB print, it really isn't cost effective at all.

Can't believe we will actually be able to see Puggo ESB!!

VADER!? WHERE THE HELL IS MY MOCHA LATTE? -Palpy on a very bad day.
“George didn’t think there was any future in dead Han toys.”-Harrison Ford
YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/c/DamnFoolIdealisticCrusader

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Don't get me wrong, 16mm can most definitely look fabulous converted to HD.  But I still don't think it is possible, at home, to get the kind of results that Hollywood can. They have scanning equipment that puts even the best moviestuff units (the Workprinters, Snipers, and the Quicksilver, which run nearly $10K) to shame. They also have software (and training) that is in a different league -- there is another world out there if you're MGM and can pay for the very very best.

Transferring films myself has caused me to look at films in a different way. Now when I look at an old film I can't help but notice the transfer, and often I'll see things and know exactly what caused them.  I think I do pretty good transfers, better than the majority of transfer houses out there for hire.  It bugs me when I see a cheap-ass transfer on a great classic. It REALLY bugs me when I see an old film and think that I could have done a better transfer myself on my Workprinter (which is surprisingly often). But when I see a really good, cost-is-no-object Hollywood transfer of a great film noir classic, I am blown away.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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Given their current financial woes, MGM can't afford to drop their vacation photos off at Walmart these days. ;)

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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Hi, new around these parts. Can anyone PM me a place to download a torrent of the Puggo Grande? Thanks!