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Puggo GRANDE - 16mm restoration (Released) — Page 13

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Wow!  This labor of love has taken you almost a full year!  Your Project Notes start on August 15, 2008 when you received the first print.  Like everyone else, I'm absolutely stoked to see this!  I'm late to the game of contributing my opinion to this thread, but I'm glad you chose the curved borders.  And the dodgier the better!  Yeah, I want the transfer to be as full of detail as possible, replicating the projected film image, but those filmic imperfections and flaws should be retained.  Reel-change burns, audio thumps after splices, emulsion scratches, etc. re-create the experience of seeing the film back in the day before the theaters were equipped with Dolby surround sound and fancier projectors.  Puggo Grande can't possibly be as dodgy as the ravaged print I saw in 1978 at a small town second-run theater.  That poor tortured thing was scratched and spliced worse than any movie I've ever seen (it broke twice during the showing) and the theater had medieval wood-backed seats.   The fire-marshal would have shut the place down if he'd seen the overcrowded standing-in-the-aisles throng squeezed into that hardtop that night.  But it was pure heaven for a 15-year-old boy like me at the time!  Thanks Puggo!  Having this to look forward to has taken the sting off of getting outbid on the super-8 Durann print that sold on eBay a couple of weeks ago...  (it went for $760.00 in case anyone missed it)

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Fantastic.  Puggo, you should be commended for your dedication and tremendous amount of time this stuff takes.  We're grateful and I can't wait til someone posts so I can take a look.

 

Bravo

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I just read through this thread, and all I can say is I can't wait to see this! Puggo, you've got commendable dedication and it will be very greatly appreciated by the rest of us.
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Definitely looking forward to seeing this. Sounds like you've put a lot of work into this, and I'm sure there are many people here who will enjoy it.

 

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Ooh, me want. If someone who has/is getting this wants to trade, let me know. I'll have to look and see what kind of stuff I'd have that may be of interest.

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Can't wait!

Congratulation on finishing Puggo! :)

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Ok, I'm just starting to get some feedback from a few people who have received disks.  One viewer has indicated that I didn't properly set the anamorphic flag in TMPGEnc.  I thought I had done things the right way, given that the source material is 4:3, but it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that I had made that sort of mistake.

So, I ask that please nobody torrent or distribute it yet, until I am certain that it gets encoded properly.  If any of you who received disks can check it out and let me know of any such mistakes you recognize, and then better yet if any of you know TMPGEnc well enough to suggest what I need to do to properly do the encoding, I'll get right on fixing it and redistributing a proper encode.  Thanks!

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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 (Edited)

If it's just the flag that's wrong, you shouldn't need to re-encode. Tools such as Restream or DVDPatcher should be able to change the flag in the MPEG headers without touching the existing encode.

I will take a look when I get the disc.

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I agree with Moth3r, the encode is correctly sized for anamorphic, it's just that the DVD player doesn't know that it's supposed to get stretched. The above mentioned tools should be able to quickly set the flags. No re-encoding should need to be done. Once again, I think you did an amazing job on this!

You can go about your business. Move along, move along.

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The Story of Star Wars
The Adventures Of Luke Skywalker

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awesome job,

can't wait to see this..

 

very excited to see this come to completion..

 

be seeing you,

+1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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Ok, it does seem that I have failed to properly set the bit.  For those of you who got these first copies of the disk, if you can figure out how to tell your player or your tv to display at 16:9, it should stretch to the right dimension.  That should tide you over until I get the corrected version out.

Only the three reels of the film are intended to be widescreen.  The PSA and the "making of" are both 4:3.  The menu doesn't really matter, the way I've made it.

When I get back next week, I'll make the corrections and get the final version out. In the meantime, please don't distribute the version that is out there now.

Oh, and thanks for pointing me to the repair tools.  But I'd really like to know how to properly set the bit in TMPGEnc.  Can anyone tell me how that is done?

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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I'm wondering how it was possible to do a 16:9 encode without the stream being correctly flagged. I don't really know TMPGEnc, but 16:9 vs. 4:3 is usually simple output option when you specify video quality settings - in addition to any resizing that may be necessary, this sets the flag accordingly.

How was the original transfer formatted - I assume it was actually recorded to video/file via a 16:9 camcorder? If you were using an automatic setting or preset, I suppose the footage might have been misinterpreted as 4:3 - the optically squeezed picture information would still be there, but the resultant file would be tagged as 4:3.

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Jonno said:

How was the original transfer formatted - I assume it was actually recorded to video/file via a 16:9 camcorder?

No.  The frames of the film are anamorphic, meaning that they are 4:3 and would ordinarily require a special lens to project (and that's not 16:9... it's even wider).  But the workprinter's lens is really only capable of projecting the original 4:3, so that's what I captured.  Then in post I vertically squished the image from 480 to 310 and adding horizontal bars (but still 4:3 including the bars), because when THAT is stretched to 16:9, the image produced would be correct.

That's why if you take what is on the disk, and tell your DVD player (or TV) to stretch it to 16:9, it then should look right.

So the source .avi file is 4:3 but needs to be displayed stretched to 16:9.  Do I need to make the target 16:9?  Would it still be viewable on a standard TV?  I couldn't find an example of doing this in any examples on the various internet TMPGEnc instructional guides I've accumulated.

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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Ah, I see - I forgot about the anamorphic source, this project needed a lot more jiggery-pokery than I was giving you credit for!

Well, given what you're feeding the encoder (4:3 with anamorphic content) then yes, the encoder should be set to a 16:9 output - this won't change the pixel-by-pixel content (other than the effects of compression), but it will correctly flag the stream so the DVD player interprets it properly.

The DVD player is key here - if it's set up properly for the TV or projector it's being used with (and I realise that thousands probably aren't!) a 16:9-flagged source will display as 16:9 on a wide screen, or letterboxed on a 4:3 screen - everyone wins.

 

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Wow!  Puggo GRANDE was everything I'd hoped it would be!  The 16:9 snafu was easy to fix.  It seems a bit bass-ackward, but I set the player to display 4:3 with my Sanyo Z3000 1080p projector still set at "full" and it filled my 92" screen beautifully!  Puggo's right about the unique optical sound from 16mm film prints.  There's nothing like it.  Somebody may take the time to marry this version with a surround track, but it just wouldn't fit the picture.  It was so great not to be distracted with LFE during "I find your lack of faith disturbing" for instance!  The force rumble is there but it's more subtle, and to me, more effective.  My hat's off to Puggo for an awesome job!   Adywan worked wonders on his SW REVISITED, but in the future when I get a hankerin' for Episode IV, it'll be the Puggo GRAND that gets played!  A thousand thanks, Puggo!!!

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Damn... Now I'm jealous.

 

Any sample clips uploaded anywhere?

“I love Darth Editous and I’m not ashamed to admit it.” ~ADigitalMan

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boba feta said:

Damn... Now I'm jealous.

 

Any sample clips uploaded anywhere?

 

a sample would be nice,but I am not jealous,I would be if it was right,but I can wait for a correctly encoded version.

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 (Edited)
rsortor said:

Wow!  Puggo GRANDE was everything I'd hoped it would be!  The 16:9 snafu was easy to fix.  It seems a bit bass-ackward, but I set the player to display 4:3 with my Sanyo Z3000 1080p projector still set at "full" and it filled my 92" screen beautifully!  Puggo's right about the unique optical sound from 16mm film prints.  There's nothing like it.  Somebody may take the time to marry this version with a surround track, but it just wouldn't fit the picture.  It was so great not to be distracted with LFE during "I find your lack of faith disturbing" for instance!  The force rumble is there but it's more subtle, and to me, more effective.  My hat's off to Puggo for an awesome job!   Adywan worked wonders on his SW REVISITED, but in the future when I get a hankerin' for Episode IV, it'll be the Puggo GRAND that gets played!  A thousand thanks, Puggo!!!

The Mono Mix was the latest mix in star wars 1977 release and was the third mix.  So it was the most finished. The 70MM six track and the 35mm are derived from the same 4 track master, of course the 70MM came out first and the 35mm second.  Very few people got to see or hear the 70mm version.  As not all theaters were equipped for stereo presentation at the time people most likely heard the mono mix, or the 35mm if the theater owner paid to have his theater decked out in Dolby Stereo.

 

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Wow! I never checked that thread before... The 16mm restoration samples I just watched are beautiful, really ! The non-glossy image gives all another dimension to the world depicted. Bravo !

ESB AUDIOPHILE EDITION

 

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^You would probably like the original Puggo Edition, too. The editing choices that were made by the people that did the reels was very interesting, to say the least. My mother and I watched it and just had to laugh at some of the hard cuts and important scenes that were skipped because of time limitations. Really fun. :)

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