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Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles) — Page 65

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Every now and then I get a glimpse of what an ambitious project Unicode is, and how complicated things get when theory meets reality. Basically Unicode is creating a 1:1 mapping of numbers to glyphs. 0x0041->A, 0x0042->B, and so on. But we’ve already seen from CJK unification that it’s not really 1:1. You’ve got 1:1 mapping of numbers to the abstract idea of a glyph, but those numbers need to be tied to a particular language so that you can select a language-specific font and render those glyphs.

So far, so good. Then things take a turn for the strange. There’s this little feature defined within the fonts themselves where the font can have different glyphs for different languages. For example, a font can define special Romanian versions of certain letters. Basically because for a long time, the Romanian letter S with a comma below was considered the same thing as the letter S with a cedilla below in other languages, and a distinct Unicode code point wasn’t assigned until much later. In the meantime, many Romanian documents use the original “S with cedilla” code point. So if you use a font that supports it, and software that supports it, and the software is somehow made aware that the text is in Romanian, then it will display the Romanian glyph instead of the typical S with cedilla. But Project Threepio can sidestep this because it just uses the new Unicode code points.

And now the wheels come off. In Serbian and Macedonian, certain Cyrillic letters look very different than in other languages using Cyrillic characters, but only when the letters are italicized. So again, that font feature is used so that if the font supports it, and the software supports it, and the software is aware of the text’s language, and the text is italicized, then a totally different-looking glyph is displayed. And it does not seem these cases are ever getting distinct Unicode code points, because they’re only distinct in italic form. So this complicated process is the only way you’ll ever be able to get the right results.

Which is really now why it’s officially a miracle when anything ever works at all. But never fear, I’ve confirmed Project Threepio will handle this correctly, thanks to the Pango software and Noto fonts.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Hello Catbus, I’m Japanese and I love of course the Totoro anime, can you please send me all the subtitles, all languages, all films, all formats.
Thank you for your work and I love so much Star Wars, I have laserdisc of episode 1 in Japanese and the Trilogy in laserdisc too, VHS, DVD, Blu-ray.
Thank you in advance and may the force be with you !

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Can I have a link of the latest release of Project Threepio?

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 (Edited)

It’s a longshot, but I’m going to take it. Anyone here know Burmese, or know someone who does? If so, send me a PM.

The reason is, we’re going to have Burmese subtitles in the next version… but the fansubber who created them left out the translation for ROTJ’s crawl. Normally I don’t even bother with fansubs that don’t translate the crawl (this is actually fairly common, and one of the reasons that, at least so far, we don’t have Urdu subtitles). But I finished the first two movies in Burmese before I hit Jedi and realized this film’s translation was different.

So either (more likely) Burmese will be a one-off language which is incomplete for one film, or (less likely) we find someone to fill the gap, and we get Burmese subtitles that are on par with other languages.

Upon reflection, if anyone knows Urdu and is willing to translate three crawls, they can send me a PM too. Our Hindi dubs would likely make the translation a pretty easy job.

EDIT: Actually for Urdu, we’d likely need translations for the whole films. I don’t think I can get the existing fansubs synced without the involvement of someone who knows the language, and I suspect the translations used by the Hindi dub may be a better starting point anyway.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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FWIW, this appears to be a working value for the resync script, to synchronize Project Threepio subtitles against the new and awesome Return of the Pug 16mm preservation:

Adjustments["PUGGO-ROTJ"]="0=-1.1#32:00=-0.1#37:00=+1.9#39:00=-0.2#44:00=+0.2#56:00=-1.2#1:02:00=+0.1#1:17:28=-1.2#1:25:00=+4.5#1:30:00=-0.1#1:32:34=+0.2#1:59:00=-1.0#2:02:00=+0.2"

As usual, this is for syncing against all the reels merged into one big movie.

There is a bug in the released version of the script for syncing SRT files, so I’d recommend either syncing graphical subtitles, or doing one more code edit, replacing this line:

Line=Line.replace(InTimecode,NewIn).replace(OutTimecode,NewOut)

…with these lines:

Line=Line.replace(OutTimecode,"XXXXXX")
Line=Line.replace(InTimecode,NewIn).replace("XXXXXX",NewOut)

If you don’t want to edit code, you’ll need to wait for 11.0.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Can I have a link of the latest release of Project Threepio?

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Hey, what’s the timeline on the upcoming version? I have small updates on my subs. 😃 But I’ll probably need to watch all three again.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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Next version is a big one. There’s a lot already done (added six new languages already!), but I’m still looking at potentially adding two additional languages, and improving eight.

Make that nine 😉 There’s plenty of time to send in some edits.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Oh, and for anyone making suggestions for improvements – if the number of changes is small, you can just mail in the lines to be changed. Our PM system here handles Unicode just fine now. Otherwise links to modified SRT files will work.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Hi CatBus
I was wondering about a couple of things. I was reading about how to make subtitles here in Sweden and found some rules on how many characters and display time each line should consist of. The rules I found was max 42 char/line and max two lines. The display time was max 3 sec/line. What set of rules do you use? Or maybe what kind of rules should I and others try to work after?

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Will you work to update NJVC Blu-Ray to use version 11.0, using a global 32 language set consistent across the trilogy?

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So, for guidelines, I started out by following the BBC guidelines (which are similar), but adjusted them to have a strong emphasis on readability for younger viewers. This means that, when given a choice, my subtitles opt to show lots of text for a longer duration instead of several briefer displays of short text.

Basically, if you’re making a new translation and want to stay within the project’s style recommendations, just use the project’s template files and that will take care of almost everything about timing, grouping, etc. The README covers a few other style issues. (existing Swedish subtitles do not entirely follow these guidelines because they’re pretty much straight from the GOUT DVD with only minor modifications)

As for the the NJVC Blu-rays, I actually do not specifically coordinate with that project. I just make subtitles that sync to the GOUT, and then they automatically “just work” with all sort of other projects, such as NJVC. By 11.0, this project will have well over 40 languages to choose from, and how to restrict that to keep within a 32-subtitle limit is up to the project owner. I will, however, be making a more useful guide for making such decisions in the README for those project owners. Basically it’ll be a little Javascript-powered table lookup thingee, where you say “I want to make a Blu-ray for Region A”, and poof, it lists the languages you’ll want to include for that audience. The trick is that Region B languages will exceed 32 on their own, so that region is further subdivided. Region-locking is a horrible thing and I wish it never existed, but it’s a concept that happens to be helpful here. So the NJVC disc author could decide if they’re going to target Region A, or Region B/Western Europe, or what. Once they make that decision, then they’ll have a consistent set of subtitles.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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I’d love a link to Project Threepio as well!

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Hi CatBus, can i get a link of the latest Project Threepio? Thanks for all the amazing work.

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 (Edited)

CatBus said:

So, for guidelines, I started out by following the BBC guidelines (which are similar), but adjusted them to have a strong emphasis on readability for younger viewers. This means that, when given a choice, my subtitles opt to show lots of text for a longer duration instead of several briefer displays of short text.

Basically, if you’re making a new translation and want to stay within the project’s style recommendations, just use the project’s template files and that will take care of almost everything about timing, grouping, etc. The README covers a few other style issues. (existing Swedish subtitles do not entirely follow these guidelines because they’re pretty much straight from the GOUT DVD with only minor modifications)

I’m not replying just to you but Rondan and other possible translators as well.

It would be easy to use English guidelines for all languages but unfortunately all languages don’t have the same readability. I can easily read English subs with fast speed but reading the subs on my own Finnish language at the same speed literally gave me a headache. That’s why every single sub from my translation has its own timing that I manually made. I don’t remember anymore if CatBus changed the timings from what I originally sent, hopefully not. 😃 So Rondan, if you’d start the subs from scratch (which I recommend) I’d use the English subs for the basis of the translation, look for help from the GOUT subs and then time them all from scratch. On mine I used at least 100 milliseconds of free time between the subs so that the text wouldn’t look like it would change but the whole subtitle. Other than that I tried to maximize their readability time. That way you can get the most quality out of them.

Edit: oh, and if you want, you can use the Finnish subs for help in timings. Of course you’d need the English subs to understand the dialogue, but I’m pretty happy about the durations. Swedish maybe could be a little faster as the words are shorter, I don’t know.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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Thank you LexX for the advice. I always start the subs from scratch, I found out that the program that I use had problem syncing the different subs. When I added the swedish subtitle as a translation column it did not match the english subtitle. The program made a lot of blank lines to fill out the differences between the two subtitles. I will have a look at the finnish subtitle to see if the timing is more accurate. The problem with translating english is that they speek their shortened words, while we do not in Sweden. It would sound very odd to do so.

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You can also just give the translations straight to me without any timing, or just arbitrary timing. The translation is the hard part. Timing is adjustable.

The “template” Project Threepio timing is a little on the slow side by English standards, which makes it suitable for younger viewers in English, but can also accommodate slightly wordier languages (for example, IIRC LexX’s Finnish timing was slower than the template on a few lines, but was actually faster on most). Which means it is probably painfully slow for CJK languages, and still too fast for Malayalam (short story on this language: I gave up). Right now I’m working on an “even slower” standard which can better accommodate languages like Vietnamese, and I’m hoping this will also get Urdu workable. We’ll see.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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alrighty then CatBus 😄 I am going to stick with the template.

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That will be fine, and if you see any problem areas, we can try retiming just those areas using some other standard. That said, there are a few areas where the dialogue is so thick I actually had to drop lines to make it readable in English, so nothing’s perfect (the Owen/C-3PO exchange is brutal).

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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Can I please get a PM with the latest subtitles?