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Preserving the "German" Original Trilogy (Released) — Page 3

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Don't forget the German End Titles for EP IV as well!
In fact, send me your address through the Cinefacts forum, I'll send you what I have on crawls etc.
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Hello,

I have looked through the effort (the German textcrawl combined with a starfield) and it does not look really well to me. It does not feel like Star Wars: the letters which have wandered off to the back are practically unreadable (as they are in the original version); the crawl colour feels greenish instead of warm yellow. The bleeding on "Lucasfilm" and "Es war einmal..." is quite disturbing (on 2.35:1 German LD rips I have here it is not the case, and the sharpness is comparable).

I would prefer a mostly unaltered German textcrawl with less visible stars, than such an artificial composition.
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Originally posted by: Laserschwert.

Oh, and could you upload the other two crawls as well? I'm really itching on doing multi-angle crawled, anamorphic versions of the GOUTs.


You know how to make multi-angle?
What software do you use the old DVDMaestro?
Or something for the MAC?

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/5543/yodabg2.png
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R2D2, you still around?

Did you ever manage to capture any video off the "Silver Screen Collection" LDs? I'd like to know how the quality compares with the THX releases. 

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Wow, is this an ot.com record necrobump?

Also, I lol'd at this:

R2D2 said:


I am from Austria (Schwarzenegger,Mozart,...)

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The original German dub was archived on the German gout, now out of print as is the japan release and the USA release.

Too late to buy new copies.

The USA release is still easy enough to get through second hand sellers on Amazon.com, but unless you live in the UK getting the UK release is next to impossible, the same with wanting to own any other regions release or countries.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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 (Edited)

It would be cool if a German Star Wars fan with the German GOUT DVD set would make the German Dolby Digital 2.0 soundtrack available, then the PAL audio speed up could be reversed and it could be synched to the U.S NTSC GOUT video.

That would be really interesting to watch, since the Empire is based on the German military. And the German Darth Vader is *awesome*, far superior voice. :)

The Star Wars trilogy. There can be only one.

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Hi guys!

Well, I wasn't really lucky with LD-Players. Bought 2 of them via ebay, both stated in working condition, both of them not working after shipping. My motivation in buying a 3rd LD Player is like zero.

I have all the german Star Wars LD sets at home but can't play them.

TV's Frink said:

Wow, is this an ot.com record necrobump?

Also, I lol'd at this:

R2D2 said:


I am from Austria (Schwarzenegger,Mozart,...)

Many mix up Austria (state in Europe) and Australia (continentm, kangaroo), that is why I added the info here.

skyjedi2005 said:

The original German dub was archived on the German gout, now out of print as is the japan release and the USA release.

Too late to buy new copies.

The USA release is still easy enough to get through second hand sellers on Amazon.com, but unless you live in the UK getting the UK release is next to impossible, the same with wanting to own any other regions release or countries.

I have all three movie discs of the German GOUT. The audio however is not without errors (see thread history).

Seeing Star Wars in german is not only about having another audio track running, it's about having the german title crawl, german alien subtitles, and it even had german credits at the end.

Dunedain said:

It would be cool if a German Star Wars fan with the German GOUT DVD set would make the German Dolby Digital 2.0 soundtrack available, then the PAL audio speed up could be reversed and it could be synched to the U.S NTSC GOUT video.

That would be really interesting to watch, since the Empire is based on the German military. And the German Darth Vader is *awesome*, far superior voice. :)

If you reverse the PAL audio speed up you will get a slower (deeper) voice of everybody, which doesn't feature the original voice frequencies. Instead of seeing a NTSC version of German GOUT for NTSC countries who barely speak the language I would prefer a PAL version with at least the german text crawl reinserted.

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Hello guys,

I can probably upload the German GOUT audiotracks sometime next week, if you really want it. I will borrow these DVDs from a friend next weekend. I never bothered to buy them myself because I own the German Laserdiscs. Unfortunatly my Laserdisc PLayer (Sony MDP-850D) broke several months ago, so it is time to get a copy of these DVDs.

I still have a Pioneer CLD-S315, but this was cheaper entry level player and it is missing some important features (like S-Video, Optical Audio etc).

I also have the german 1993 SilverScreen Laserdiscs, and the 1982 Episode 4 Pan&Scan Laserdisc (although this one is in bad condition and has many artifacts that make it virtually unusable) that were mentioned in this thread. 

Their quality is fine for the most part but the 1995 THX Version is superior except for the opening crawls.

I could capture these LDs and upload them to the newsgroup if someone is interested, but I only have a Phillips SA7134 or Conexant BT878 based grabbing card which are OK but not great. The Phillips card has very good picture quality and produces acceptable result, but I haven't used it in years. I also can't grab the audio in pure digital form. I am trying to get a better Player from Ebay but the good ones are usually way over what I am willing to pay.

Creating a decent german version from the GOUT with some fixes from other sources is something I would really like to do.

 

Greetings,

Grisan

 

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 (Edited)

Hey, guys, I have the GOUT German audio (courtesy of Luffy03) I could reupload it as well, if you wanted.

Also, I have an uncle in München, who is one of those casual SW fans who prefer the original versions but settled for the SE DVDs because of the picture quality. I'm planning to make PAL DVD5s of my Despecialized Edition with German dub and German crawl and subtitles for his birthday. I could upload it when it's done (I won't start working on it until after ROTJ is finished though) if anyone would be interested. Also, could someone please provide the German titles and crawl for me? I guess from the 04SE or are they in German on the German GOUT as well?

If not, I'm going to use the 97SE G'Kar versions for those.

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R2D2 said:

TV's Frink said:

Wow, is this an ot.com record necrobump?

Also, I lol'd at this:

R2D2 said:


I am from Austria (Schwarzenegger,Mozart,...)

Many mix up Austria (state in Europe) and Australia (continentm, kangaroo), that is why I added the info here.

Wow.  While I don't doubt for a second that this is true, it makes me very, very sad.

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 (Edited)

I heard that there was a fixed GOUT disc available with corrected audio?

The German audio track was faulty on some discs. In chapter 13 of ANH when Luke, Han & Chewie wait for the elevator to the detention area, the announcements in the background are missing - as well as the lines "Ich kann in diesem Helm überhaupt nichts sehen (I can't see a thing in this helmet)", "Das wird nicht funktionieren (This is not gonna work)", "Warum hast du das nicht gleich gesagt? (Why didn't you say so before?)" and "Ich habe es gesagt (I did say so before)". A replacement disc with fixed German audio is available from 20th Century Fox Home Entertainmemt by emailing info@tcfhe.de.

R2D2 said:

If you reverse the PAL audio speed up you will get a slower (deeper) voice of everybody, which doesn't feature the original voice frequencies.

Surely the original dub was for the film's theatrical presentation, and so would be at film speed? The voices would therefore be sped up (higher pitched) for the PAL DVD; slowing down should restore the original pitch.

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grisan said:

I also have the german 1993 SilverScreen Laserdiscs, and the 1982 Episode 4 Pan&Scan Laserdisc (although this one is in bad condition and has many artifacts that make it virtually unusable) that were mentioned in this thread. 

Their quality is fine for the most part but the 1995 THX Version is superior except for the opening crawls.

I could capture these LDs and upload them to the newsgroup if someone is interested, but I only have a Phillips SA7134 or Conexant BT878 based grabbing card which are OK but not great. The Phillips card has very good picture quality and produces acceptable result, but I haven't used it in years.

Hi grisan, not seen you in a long time.

My interest in the 1993 Silver Screen LD releases was as a source for the scenes that are affected by DVNR smear in the 1995 THX discs. It would be great if you could post some screenshots to illustrate the overall quality on these discs.

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Harmy said:

Also, could someone please provide the German titles and crawl for me? I guess from the 04SE or are they in German on the German GOUT as well?

If not, I'm going to use the 97SE G'Kar versions for those.

Neither GOUT or the SE-trilogy seems to use the original German theatrical crawl, check the first page of this thread.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Well, yeah. But as GOUT doesn't seem to have a German crawl at all, I'm just gonna use the SE one, which, unlike the old one, seems to look quite close to the English one. My uncle won't give a crap anyway.

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@Harmy

Using the GKar or official DVD crawl is probably the best solution right now.

Anyway here are some quick and dirty caps of the german 1982 Pan&Scan LD and 1993 SilverScreen Widescreen LD.

http://www.multiupload.com/P6L9RD2P4Z

http://www.multiupload.com/24PKA5ODPT

Unfortunately the 1982 is in bad condition and has some errors. The transfer also was pretty bad and had a lot of noise to begin with.

The 1993 caps are better but there is not that much resolution.

These caps were quickly made by me without any adjustments or processing. Basically just a test if my player and grabbing card still work.

If I have the time in the next few days I will try to get better caps, but my equipment is pretty limited right now.

@Moth3r

Give me a list of the scenes you want captured and I will see what I can do.

 

Greetings,

Grisan

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Thanks :-) I'll check it out, although I think I'll use the 04DVD ones to keep the quality consistent.

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So I checked out the samples grisan, while it's interesting to see, it would definitely not go very well with my edits.

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R2D2 said:

Hello There!

As we all know by now, the GOUT DVDs do not feature a german title crawl.

I am using the gout videotrack, made it anamorph (avs script --> cce sp reencoding).

In the last week I was trying to merge my german title crawl with the gout videotrack of episode 4 and was very successful.

The crawl is from the VHS Silver Screen Collection, featuring the title crawl stretched to 720x576.

The results of filtering were astounding clear, you can download the latest video here:
http://rapidshare.de/files/35146630/deutsches_intro.mpg.html
(mpeg2-file, 16:9, ac3 2.0 german audio, 100 MB)

Please download it and post your commentaries/critics here.

R2D2 posted a capture of the german title crawl that could maybe be useful. The link is dead, but maybe R2D2 has the title crawl and the german credits and could post them again.

I still have his german title crawl only, it looked not bad.

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 (Edited)

Moth3r said:


I heard that there was a fixed GOUT disc available with corrected audio?


The German audio track was faulty on some discs. In chapter 13 of ANH when Luke, Han & Chewie wait for the elevator to the detention area, the announcements in the background are missing - as well as the lines "Ich kann in diesem Helm überhaupt nichts sehen (I can't see a thing in this helmet)", "Das wird nicht funktionieren (This is not gonna work)", "Warum hast du das nicht gleich gesagt? (Why didn't you say so before?)" and "Ich habe es gesagt (I did say so before)". A replacement disc with fixed German audio is available from 20th Century Fox Home Entertainmemt by emailing info@tcfhe.de.


R2D2 said:

If you reverse the PAL audio speed up you will get a slower (deeper) voice of everybody, which doesn't feature the original voice frequencies.


Surely the original dub was for the film's theatrical presentation, and so would be at film speed? The voices would therefore be sped up (higher pitched) for the PAL DVD; slowing down should restore the original pitch.


Yes, I was about to say that, I'm almost certain you're correct. The original Star Wars trilogy German soundtracks in theaters would not have had any PAL speed-up to the audio.

The only reason that this is added to home video versions is so the audio will match the video frame rate of European tv's that use the PAL format.

So taking the German DD 2.0 soundtracks from the German version of the GOUT, then removing the PAL audio speed-up, and synching them to the U.S. GOUT videos (or taking the German PAL GOUT video and re-sampling the video down to NTSC resolution and frame rate, if you want to keep the German subtitles for alien characters and such) would actually restore the voices to their correct sound as heard in theaters by German Star Wars fans. :)

Synching the German GOUT DD 2.0 soundtracks, with the PAL speed-up removed, to dark_jedi's V3 Star Wars trilogy DVD set video, or his new Blu-Ray HD trilogy set video, would match the German soundtracks with the highest quality original unaltered Star Wars trilogy video possible. That would be so cool! :)

The Star Wars trilogy. There can be only one.

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Dunedain said:

 


Yes, I was about to say that, I'm almost certain you're correct. The original Star Wars trilogy German soundtracks in theaters would not have had any PAL speed-up to the audio.

The only reason that this is added to home video versions is so the audio will match the video frame rate of European tv's that use the PAL format.

So taking the German DD 2.0 soundtracks from the German version of the GOUT, then removing the PAL audio speed-up, and synching them to the U.S. GOUT videos (or taking the German PAL GOUT video and re-sampling the video down to NTSC resolution and frame rate, if you want to keep the German subtitles for alien characters and such) would actually restore the voices to their correct sound as heard in theaters by German Star Wars fans. :)

Synching the German GOUT DD 2.0 soundtracks, with the PAL speed-up removed, to dark_jedi's V3 Star Wars trilogy DVD set video, or his new Blu-Ray HD trilogy set video, would match the German soundtracks with the highest quality original unaltered Star Wars trilogy video possible. That would be so cool! :)

 

 

The idea to sync the german audio to the NTSC version is something I wanted to do myself if I decide to make a german theatrical version with the original german crawl and end credits.

But the first thing I want to do are straight preservations of the german 1993 pre-THX and the 1995 THX Laserdisc.

I have done some Laserdisc capturing tests last weekend and I am pretty satisfied with the results. My Laserdisc player may not be the best, but its picture quality is pretty fine and it is enough to make good preservations of the german laserdics.

I have thought about getting a Pioneer CLD-D925 and a better capture card but this is too expensive for me right now.

 

BTW.:

I now have the german GOUT DVDs and could upload the PAL audio tracks (german 2.0, english 2.0 and spanish 2.0 ) or the complete DVD-Isos to a.b.starwars.

Anyone interested?

 

 

 

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grisan said: 

The idea to sync the german audio to the NTSC version is something I wanted to do myself if I decide to make a german theatrical version with the original german crawl and end credits.

 

If something like that is ever attempted keep in mind the different framecounts between the NTSC and PAL versions of GOUT http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Whats-missing-from-GOUT/post/457548/#TopicPost457548 so you don't end up with the audio going out of sync.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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I doubt that the current pitch of voices on PAL video (VHS, Laserdisc, DVD) is incorrect. If you slow down the 25 fps to 24 fps none of the voices does sound natural any more. Leia sure doesn't sound like a woman any more!

I have heard star wars avi files of german audio run at 23,976 speed. It's unwatchable - actually unhearable!

I doubt that home video release in PAL don't feature the original pitch of voices. People would remember the difference frequencies of the actors between hearing them in cinemas and hearing them at home. This 4% are very easy detected, especially if you are familiar to the voice of the actors.

I think for the studios it's quite easy to create two seperate audio tracks because you have the audio track without the voices to begin with and just insert the actor voices at certain timestamps. The speed of the voice track however doesn't necessarely have to match the speed of the main track.

Blurays features the original 24fps but the pitch (frequency) of the voice actors don't change! If there was an international cinema release you can bet that the voice actor do sound on PAL DVD as they sound on Bluray.

I will reactivate my starwars hdd this week and hopefully find all the stuff 'krieg der sterne' related. If I remember right, I have kept all those captures of the crawls, at least from the vhs videos (I was never able to play my Laserdiscs).

I am looking forward in any attempt to recreate the german cinema experience.

@grisan: Please keep the laserdisc Logos at the beginning somehow included, if at least as a bonus feature or share it here like the 1982 LD release. Such things are part of german star wars history as well.

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I've heard there exist PAL sources with speed up and where the pitch have been shifted/corrected, never encountered it myself though.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com