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Prequels from an Expanded Universe POV

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I'm curious how people's views on the PT(or even the OT and SE ) differ if ones more familar with the novels. I've read most of the novels, and enjoy them. One of my bigger concerns out of the PT being good films is that they mesh well with the EU. So far they have. As such, I'm no stranger to Coruscant, double bladed lightsabres and so on. Does anyone feel that the prequels are better enjoyed from the big picture view, or are they better when only knowing the films(a viewpoint I don't have)?


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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I would like to be more familiar with the EU than I am, and am starting to take strides in that direction. I found that I appreciated TPM and AOTC a lot more when I read the novelizations for them, and they added enough to the story that I would think they could be considered EU, but I especially found TPM a much more fully realized story after I read Cloak of Deception. Sure, it's not a terribly action-packed story, but the political intrigue is important to understanding what happens to the Republic, so I felt it served a very vital purpose in the EU. So, yes, Klingon, the EU does add to my appreciation of the prequels.

We should start a few EU discussion threads (on different eras of the EU or characters or something). It would provide a nice distraction from all of the technical threads on bootlegs (which I'm thankful for, but have no hope of understanding).
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That's how I feel. The EU helps one appreciate the OT and PT as a whole. Lucas was also limited by the EU so I'm sure being familar with them helps. I actually haven't gotten to Cloak of Deception yet. I kind of fell out of Star Wars while reading The New Jedi Order. Basically, lack of a community to interact with(I don't visit TF.N[I always prefer Jedinet.com] nor do I recieve the Insider anymore), coupled with falling into anime kind of switched gears on me. This happens from time to time. Since joining these boards, I've been swinging back into Star Wars at the moment. Which books have you read, by the way? I've read most except for the majority of TNJO and the prequel novels with the exception of Rogue Planet.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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I'm still a relative EU newbie...I have read the novelizations (except for ROTJ), Cloak of Deception, Ambush at Corellia, and Heir to the Empire, but I have a ton of others lined up to read (I especially can't wait to finish the Thrawn Trilogy and get started on the NJO). Today, I happen to be reading the Mara Jade: By the Emperor's Hand graphic novel, and am enjoying it immensely (I'm not a comic person, but I really wanted to know more about Mara Jade, who is already my favorite EU character, and I also intend to read the Dark Empire comics soon, as well). I haven't went to Jedinet before, so I'll have to check that out. TFN is really starting to annoy me (as well as the official site).
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I've read a fair chunk of the books.

I don't think that the Prequels mesh as well as I would have liked with the EU (which Lucas seems to have completely disregarded).

Point 1: Boba Fett- Originally was a man banished from the planet Concord Dawn. Now, he's a clone copy of the same man used as the template for the stormtroopers??

Point 2: Clones- This is slightly more dependant on EP3, but where are the Spaarti Cloning Cylinders?? For that matter, who/what are Spaarti??

Point 3: Ships- Again, this is more dependant on EP3, but where are the Dreadnaughts, Alderaanian War Frigates, Republic TIEs, Z-95 Headhunters?

Point 4: Events- I'm hoping we get some mention of Thrawn and/or the Outbound Galaxy Project. So many have said that Lucas likes the Zahn Trilogy best, that it holds truest to the spirit of Star Wars, yet Lucas has yet to do anything that shows that the Zahn books fit into his own story.
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Point 1: Boba Fett- Originally was a man banished from the planet Concord Dawn. Now, he's a clone copy of the same man used as the template for the stormtroopers??


To be fair, his identity was never truly confirmed. Under my understanding, Jaster Mereel(sp) turns out to be a mentor of Jango in the Mandorlorian way. Boba claims his armor. As for the clones, it would explain why their's a man running around guised as Fett.

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Point 2: Clones- This is slightly more dependant on EP3, but where are the Spaarti Cloning Cylinders?? For that matter, who/what are Spaarti??


True. Possibly something that isn't created until after the Clone Wars(I was a bit surprised the clones are fighting for the Republic)

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Point 3: Ships- Again, this is more dependant on EP3, but where are the Dreadnaughts, Alderaanian War Frigates, Republic TIEs, Z-95 Headhunters?


Very true, again, we shall see. Naturally, you can't throw every reference in. I doubt we'll hear of the Dathormirian Witches. I'd still like to see Corellia and especially Alderaan myself. Also, the construction of the Imperial Palace might be nice.

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Point 4: Events- I'm hoping we get some mention of Thrawn and/or the Outbound Galaxy Project. So many have said that Lucas likes the Zahn Trilogy best, that it holds truest to the spirit of Star Wars, yet Lucas has yet to do anything that shows that the Zahn books fit into his own story.


I too would love even a throw-a-way reference to the Outbound Galaxy Project. Maybe a brief shot of Thrawn that only fans can pick out, we won't know though.

Galahad_Skywalker, here's my suggestion. Finish the Thrawn trilogy, it's what got me started. After that, either finish the Corellia trilogy, or put it on hold and read the excellent X-wing saga. It details the warlord age, the fall of Coruscant, and follows Wedge and Rouge Squadron instead of Luke and Leia. It's written by two authors, my favorite of which is Michael Stackpole(his short story in Tales from the New Republic with Zahn [my other fav SW author] is a must read). The series also introduces my third favorite EU character, after Mara and Thrawn, Corran Horn. Other great character's developed from the series are Tycho Celchu(sp), an Alderaaning, Ysanni Isard, the main vilian of the piece, and the Terrick family(Booster, the man with his own Star Destroyer).

What I'm really trying to say is this; hold off on the New Jedi Order for as long as you can. I've only read five of the series, but its impact will be largely dependant on your knowledge of the characters involved. Most of the books are excellent reads, though don't worry much about getting to the Barbara Hambly books, or the Black Fleet Crisis. I didn't enjoy them that much.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Finally a thread that talks about my type of SW. NJO was fanatic they were the first SW novels i read, for me i guess since i didnt know anything the first couple of books were slow but after that they are fantastic. I'd love any sort of reference to rogue planet or any thin NJO related in the movies, also a reference to anything from thrawn. can you imagine a thrawn camio, i would love that, or a reference to vergere.
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Originally posted by: starkiller
I've read a fair chunk of the books.

I don't think that the Prequels mesh as well as I would have liked with the EU (which Lucas seems to have completely disregarded).

Point 1: Boba Fett- Originally was a man banished from the planet Concord Dawn. Now, he's a clone copy of the same man used as the template for the stormtroopers??


Over the years there have been many different tales of Boba's origins, if you read the Dark Empire comic series they reveal Boba Fett to have once been an Imperial Stormtrooper. He's also been the last survivor of the Mandalore Battle Commandoes (which if you now do any background research on the OS ha snow been handed over to Jango), a Journey man named Jaster Merell etcetc

I can't remember where I read it, but that question was once posed to some lacky at Lucasfilm who replied "the many myths of Boba Fetts origins are part of an elaborate deception scheme to confuse potential assassins/would be competitors"

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Point 2: Clones- This is slightly more dependant on EP3, but where are the Spaarti Cloning Cylinders?? For that matter, who/what are Spaarti??


Ahh the blessed EU, throws up so many amazing ideas that get poo-poo'd by the movies.....I've always thought of the Spaarti cloning tanks as being one of many sources for cloning.

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Point 3: Ships- Again, this is more dependant on EP3, but where are the Dreadnaughts, Alderaanian War Frigates, Republic TIEs, Z-95 Headhunters?


theres 20 years between eps 3 & 4, thats a lot of time for new ships to come be wheeled out of the production line, plus we dont know for sure what ships we are going to see in Ep3, it has been suggested we will see early prototypes of some Ep4 ships

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Point 4: Events- I'm hoping we get some mention of Thrawn and/or the Outbound Galaxy Project. So many have said that Lucas likes the Zahn Trilogy best, that it holds truest to the spirit of Star Wars, yet Lucas has yet to do anything that shows that the Zahn books fit into his own story.


Um Zhan created Coruscant.......nuff said!

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Originally posted by: Shimraa
Finally a thread that talks about my type of SW. NJO was fanatic they were the first SW novels i read, for me i guess since i didnt know anything the first couple of books were slow but after that they are fantastic. I'd love any sort of reference to rogue planet or any thin NJO related in the movies, also a reference to anything from thrawn. can you imagine a thrawn camio, i would love that, or a reference to vergere.


or even Nom Anor striding by in the back ground

Apparantly there are some of the Hapian representative (from the Courtship of Princess Leia & the NJO series) in the Coruscant scenes of Attack Of The Clones......a woman with a veiled face flanked by 2 bodyguards!

1st to find her wins a Mars bar!

I'd scan the picture in here but alas to save on space when moving I threw out all my Star Wars magazines
Evil dude: "You do not no pain, you do not know fear. You will taste MAN FLESH"

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damn a nom anor camio would be truely impressive, but i dont thing he was around at the time of ep3, remeber the vong really dont know much about the Republic, only bits about the empire, this leads me to believe that they would have one started infaltration after the fall of the empire.
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I am really starting to enjoy the whole concept of the EU big time. I've only read a few of the novels, but I've also gotten on this comic kick recently. I picked up Mara Jade: By the Emperor's Hand, which was wonderful, and now I'm waiting for the Dark Empire Trilogy to come in for me through ILL at my library. Of course, I still have to finish The Thrawn Trilogy and then a number of others (Shadows of the Empire, Han Solo Trilogy, I, Jedi, etc.), and then maybe I'll be able to get to the NJO. My problem is that while I'm wanting to read all of this Star Wars material, there's also too much else that I'm wanting to read.

What are everyone's thoughts on the whole issue of canon? Hope I'm not starting violent discussion...
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Originally posted by: die-jarjar-die
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Originally posted by: starkiller
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Point 3: Ships- Again, this is more dependant on EP3, but where are the Dreadnaughts, Alderaanian War Frigates, Republic TIEs, Z-95 Headhunters?
theres 20 years between eps 3 & 4, thats a lot of time for new ships to come be wheeled out of the production line, plus we dont know for sure what ships we are going to see in Ep3, it has been suggested we will see early prototypes of some Ep4 ships
Except that in the case of at least 2 of those ships, they were used IN the Clone Wars according to what I've read (Dreadnaught and War Frigate).
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Originally posted by: Galahad_Skywalker
I am really starting to enjoy the whole concept of the EU big time. I've only read a few of the novels, but I've also gotten on this comic kick recently. I picked up Mara Jade: By the Emperor's Hand, which was wonderful, and now I'm waiting for the Dark Empire Trilogy to come in for me through ILL at my library. Of course, I still have to finish The Thrawn Trilogy and then a number of others (Shadows of the Empire, Han Solo Trilogy, I, Jedi, etc.), and then maybe I'll be able to get to the NJO. My problem is that while I'm wanting to read all of this Star Wars material, there's also too much else that I'm wanting to read.

What are everyone's thoughts on the whole issue of canon? Hope I'm not starting violent discussion...


I know what you mean. I still am in the middle of The Return of Tarzan(if you've never read the works of Burroughs, add it to your list), The Illiad, The Odyssey, several mangas, The Castle of Lyrr, I started 1984, and need to finish Battle Royale. Those are just what I remember reading. I'm a gemini, and I've also been diagnosed with (the fictional disorder) ADHD. My attention switches often. However, I can keep track of several things at once.

As for the EU canon, I love it. The novels add so much depth to the saga. Plus, all the books tie in, unlike the Star Trek one. I've read some great ST books, only to have the ideas in them crushed by a new episode or movie. The books try to tie in, the series doesn't. The short story collections really do add to the films as well. Characters that had little screen time now are fully part of the story. Like how the Stormtrooper that said, "Look sir, droids" saved Han Solo's life and so on. It puts a lot into perspective. I haven't read many of the comics though with the exception of the Dark Empire series.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Originally posted by: Klingon_Jedi
I still am in the middle of The Return of Tarzan(if you've never read the works of Burroughs, add it to your list), The Illiad, The Odyssey, several mangas, The Castle of Lyrr, I started 1984, and need to finish Battle Royale.

Battle Royale is spectacular. Good to hear someone else caught on to that relatively unknown Japanese pulp gem.
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Yeah, I loved the movie, so I had to read the book.


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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It's good to see some other EU fans. Actually, I'm really a new EU fan. I've only read ten of the novels, five in the past two weeks.
But yeah, Some times it seems like Lucas should pay more attention to the Novels...

Example: In the Thrawn Trilogy, the leader of the Nogri says that it's been forty-four years since their planet Honogrh was poisoned, and Leia says it happened during the Clone Wars, But no matter how you look at it, The Clone Wars started 42-43 years before then. Small discrepency, but it hurts the belivablility.

Also, in the prequels, it seems like the Old Republic has no centralized military, though the EU books suggest it did. With "Dreadnaughts" and the Dark Force, and all.

Recently I've been reading the NJO books, and I must say, I like the prequel references, like when Han thinks about the YT-1300 being "almost as valuable as a Nubian J-Type.." which is the same as Padme's royal ship in Episode One.



And the ten books I've read are:

Dark Force Rising, it got me started. I didn't read "Heir"

The Last Command, it got me hooked

Specter of the Past, Good book

Vision of the Future, my Personal vavorite

Vector Prime,hated it at first, but still good

Onslaught,..I don't remeber it. That's not a good sign

Ruin, I like the way Corran Kills Shai...

Hero's Trial,pretty good, but I hate that Luceno made Viqi Shesh evil

Jedi Eclipse, I didn't like Jacen wimping out, but otherwise pretty good.

Balance Point,It's about time the New Republic had a victory, don't ya think? Anyway, I liked the way Jacen stopped being a wuss.

4

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if you dont like viqi being a villein now, just wait till your deeper in the series.
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Klingon, where'd you come across a copy of the movie? Are you outside the U.S.? It's been a pain to find a copy of inside the U.S. without paying through the teeth for a source online. I've never seen the movie. I just happened across the book in my local comic shop. Even my comic guy says that finding a copy of the movie is a major pain in the ass.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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I know of som other-worldly things appearing in Star Wars:

The space pod of David Bowman from the USS Discovery 1, cira 2001: A Space Odyssey
E.T. alien in the senate, cira "E.T."

And we will assume that anything where Star Wars appears in other movies, it'll be EU. But when other movies appear in Star Wars, we have to regard them as canon.

Now, how the HECK does David Bowman's space pod get from the year 2001 to Watto's junkyard "all long time ago in a galaxy far far away"??
Maybe this means that Star Wars really is set sometime in the future, albeit in another galaxy.
Of course, at the end of 2001: A Space Odyssey, the space pod is whisked away with Dave inside to a mysterious place via the 'star portal' or Tyco-Monolith-Anamolie2. (TMA-2)
Now after David was transformed to a giant fetus (or 'star child'), where did the space pod go? Matter can't simply cease to exist, and I don't think the higher intelligence (be them aliens or w/e) would bother sending it back to earth.

Fast forward OR rewind (we really don't know which) to the GFFA.
At this time, there is no real intelligent life. Maybe the 'higher intelligence' from 2001: A Space Odyssey also place a monolith (or maybe even multiple monoliths) in planet(s) there. Perhaps Cornellia, which is where humans supossedly began in the GFFA. But with how many species of intelligent life, and how many planets with life there are, we'll say multiple monoliths.
Among these new intelligent species is what we call the "E.T.s". In EU, and EU only, they go to earth and the movie "E.T." happens. But this must be regarded as EU as Star Wars is appearing in other movies at that point. Don't forget the contradictions in E.T. such as Elliot already knowing about Star Wars. So we can regard this as EU that contradicts the films.

Now back to the space pod. With the space pod still 'beyond the infinite' in wherever that mysterious hotel room is, my guess is that the extra material it took in (the space pod, and perhaps Dave's suit and maybe even body) was ejected to a somewhat or entirely random space where other monoliths were placed. In this case, somewhere in the GFFA. It was a matter of time before it ended up in Watto's junk shop.
Now, since Star Wars doesn't make an appearence in 2001: A Space Odyssey, we can use that as a non-canon but reliable source of information.
Now we all know that the events of 2001: A Space Odyssey did not really occur in the actual year 2001.
We would assume that it would be an alternat timeline, or simply ficticious but that isn't as fun.
Now we would also assume that Star Wars also existed as a far away galaxy in said timeline. That goes along nicely with 2001's outlook on the universe and monoliths. Because of how much intelligent life exists in Star Wars.



Any questions?

My stance on revising fan edits.

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theres also X wings & a tie fighter in Attack of the clones, as well as the flying cop vehicles (spinners I think they're called) from Blade Runner in either Phnatom Menace or AOTC..cant remember which off hand.

R2 D2 & C3PO are also to be found in Raiders Of The Lost Ark...they're represented as Hieroglyphics on the wall of the Well Of Souls, just behind the Arc.

In Indiana Jones & The Temple Of Doom the club theyr in at the very beginning is called Club Obi Wan.

Does this mean that all these films are connected in some way? that they all exist in some parallel universe?

Course they don't!

It's just a bunch of geeks having a laugh & sticking in things they find funny where ever they can get away with it for geeks like us to seek out & say "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, Cheeky"
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R2 D2 & C3PO are also to be found in Raiders Of The Lost Ark...they're represented as Hieroglyphics on the wall of the Well Of Souls, just behind the Arc.

In Indiana Jones & The Temple Of Doom the club theyr in at the very beginning is called Club Obi Wan.

Does this mean that all these films are connected in some way? that they all exist in some parallel universe?

According to my theory, they'd be EU.

It's a joke. I was only being half serious.

These are frickin movies! Of course things are gonna contradict.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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oopsie sorry Hal

Um shoulda put up a J/k thingy too, wasn't flaming u or anything....

just replying in a not very serious way!

friends?
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Originally posted by: Bossk
Klingon, where'd you come across a copy of the movie? Are you outside the U.S.? It's been a pain to find a copy of inside the U.S. without paying through the teeth for a source online. I've never seen the movie. I just happened across the book in my local comic shop. Even my comic guy says that finding a copy of the movie is a major pain in the ass.


Nope, I live in sunny Northern California. I saw the film back at my local anime convention Fanime 2002. Some friends I had made convinced me to see it when they told me that one of my favorite voice actresses (Miyamura Yuko) had a cameo. I really enjoyed it, and while different from the book in some respects(mostly streamlining for 2 hour film constraints) I think its excellent.

Obtaining a copy is actually easy if you know what to look for and where. First off, assuming you want subtitles, you'll have to get a bootleg. Normally, I'm against this, but the Japanese distributor refuses to let it be licensed last I heard. I hear the best is the DC 2-disc set. Anamorphic widescreen, I think DTS(5.1 DD at least if not) and so on. Unfortunately, even at Fanime it will run you about 30 bucks. You can also go my route. I have it on VCD currently. Use DC++ or bittorrent to get a subtitled copy. If I can, I can link a site that carries it for BT (I'm on a few forums that frown on such links). They currently have the Directors Cut and the sequel. Basically, you can thank my anime obsession for knowing of these sites(funny thing is, this particular site, like Kazaa lite, was featured on TechTV, and its pretty shady, which I find amusing).


Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

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Bossk

Do you have a multi region dvd player? If not could yours possibly be set to accept region 2 dvd's?

If so PLAY.COM are offering the NTSC version of Battle Royale for a very meager sum.(prices in pounds sterling though)

Check out the link:

PLAY.COM
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Evil ugly dudes: "YIPPEEEEEEEEE!!!!"
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Nope, mine is R1 only. Multiregion and programmable region players were too expensive when I was shopping around for them.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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