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IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!
"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005
"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM
"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.
IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!
"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005
"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM
"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!
"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005
"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM
"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!
"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005
"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM
"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.
War does not make one great.
IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!
"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005
"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM
"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.
War does not make one great.
IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!
"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005
"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM
"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.
There is no lingerie in space…
C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.
booah said:
I still think it would be a cool extra surprise if it was revealed in Sith that Obi-Wan was actually Luke's real father. Yeah, the OT is awesome and Darth/Luke still resonates, but it's almost like, in those movies, DARTH is Luke's father. The PT Anakin's character is such a whiny douchebag that it's a bummer to think he's Luke's dad. It would almost make more sense since Obi-Wan is 10x more noble of a character. Anakin could just *think* that he's the dad because he was with Padme, but Obi's unrequited love for Padme could've culminated in one night of bliss while Anakin was out doing bad Dark Side stuff. Or something. Crazy, I know, just some interesting speculation that I started thinking about when I saw ROTS.
With Obi-Wan and Padme having more chemistry than Padme and Anakin anyway, and if there was no OT, Obi as the pop would be neat. To me, anyway. Like, if only the audience, Obi-Wan, and Padme knew, but Anakin assumed it was his.
Evil thought: What if Obi-Wan is Anakin's father, and thus the reason why Obi-Wan felt the need to train him? What if all this time Obi-Wan is the one who pushed Anakin away (by being demanding, etc.) towards the Emperor, who treated Anakin more "kindly?" This would mean a younger Anakin in the prequels, tho... OR alternatively....(even more evil), Obi-Wan is Leia's father? Perhaps after Anakin had gone over to the darkside, Obi-Wan and Padme got together, and she later became pregnant, unbeknownst to Obi-Wan (they are somehow separated, or she dies before he finds out)? This would preserve an older Anakin and their friendship, but build in more surprise about Leia for ROTJ, another movie that needs tweaking.
xhonzi said:
Quick thought, it seems to me that it makes a little more sense for Anakin/Vader to feel betrayed by the Jedi if they threw him out or something. Not being made a master doesn't quite seem like betrayal to me.
If Anakin started to mess with Dark Side things and they told him he had to stop, he says that it is not that bad and he thinks everyone should try it and so they kick him out and ruin his life. And throw a suspicious husband aspect on top of that (Obi-wan and Anakin's yet to be named Wife?) and maybe we now have a candidate for "feeling betrayed by the Jedi."
I don't know, what do you think?
Xhonzi
Related: I thought Vader would personally go around and kill all the Jedi personally. Not some order 66 (anyone read that Twisted Toyfare Theater? It had me rolling!). As I was thinking about this, I thought it might make sense if Vader thinks some of the Jedi really would like to build this Sith Kingdom on Earth (so to speak) and so he went around to all the Jedi inviting them to join.. and they try to kill him Sith Lord that he is, so he kills them right back! And then pretty soon, he stops asking them to join, he just jumps to the end where he kills them. This, of course, would take place between 3-4 since we never see Vader in 3. Maybe some comics or something.
I totally think the love triangle would be a fun aspect to the prequels -- I was actually disappointed lucas copped out on luke/leia/han in the original, but you could certainly do it with obi-wan/padme/anakin, and it could be part of what leads to anakin's fall.
Yeah, the order 66 was stupid. I like the idea of Vader and other newly minted Sith/Dark Jedi hunting down the Jedi as was actually mentioned in IV. It's about revenge for perceived "wrongs" by the Jedi or even personal vendettas.
Gil
xhonzi said:
One little thing I just thought of...
In L'sPT, we're supposed to believe that Jedi don't get married or have kids. I never really cared for this, and my concept of the prequels doesn't include this... (I'm sure that a lot of Jedi would refrain from having family because of the nature of their work (like some members of the military)) Anyways, we're also supposed to understand that ability to use the force is genetic (at least to some degree). The talk of the midiclorians seems to strengthen that argument.
But then, the Jedi don't have kids.
Is anyone else seeing a problem with this? It's like they're purposefully trying to limit their numbers....
Xhonzi
How about that as part of the rift in the Jedi order? Perhaps there are those who are "ordained" who believe in pure asceticism, others who want to operate outside the order, but who are Jedi -- but marry, have children, or train other Jedi without authorization, and then those who truly want to go over to the dark side... Could make for some interesting subplots.
gpili said:
xhonzi said:
One little thing I just thought of...
In L'sPT, we're supposed to believe that Jedi don't get married or have kids. I never really cared for this, and my concept of the prequels doesn't include this... (I'm sure that a lot of Jedi would refrain from having family because of the nature of their work (like some members of the military)) Anyways, we're also supposed to understand that ability to use the force is genetic (at least to some degree). The talk of the midiclorians seems to strengthen that argument.
But then, the Jedi don't have kids.
Is anyone else seeing a problem with this? It's like they're purposefully trying to limit their numbers....
Xhonzi
How about that as part of the rift in the Jedi order? Perhaps there are those who are "ordained" who believe in pure asceticism, others who want to operate outside the order, but who are Jedi -- but marry, have children, or train other Jedi without authorization, and then those who truly want to go over to the dark side... Could make for some interesting subplots.
sounds like a mistake if Jedi cant have kids then how did they ever....
"For a thousand generations, the Jedi Knights were the......" I forgot the rest... but they couldnt have lasted that long...
(uh-oh) Im about to come last in Xhonzi's "How well do you know the script of Star wars" quiz....
You can never go home again, but i guess you can shop there.
bbzzzzzzzzzzzbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
You can never go home again, but i guess you can shop there.
I think the thing that strikes me in the prequel films is a general lack of real themes. I mean technically you could see something about the supposed dangers of attachment and perils involved with giving authority more power in a crisis, but both are done so poorly or done with so little on screen evidence that they just feel half-assed. Not to mention that love as a general force (no pun intended) good became such a strong element in the original trilogy that treating it with such suspicion in the prequels feels out of sync.
I myself have happened upon two critical themes of alternate prequels which I do think will still resonate with the original films: the importance of being connected with all as those around you, and the inherent dangers of losing one's idealism by giving into cynicism and pessimism.
Both Obi-Wan and Yoda speak of how the Force is an energy field created by all living things, binding the universe together and making it grow. This connectedness is about as critical to the Star Wars mythology as anything. Its something that applies not just to the force, but to people. Luke, Han, and Leia grow closer over the films, the Rebels are named specifically as an Alliance between peoples against tyranny, and Darth Vader himself is the very picture of being cut off and detached from all those around him given his state as more machine than man.This bond, this engagement between regular people is something that means just as much in the prequels.
The growing divide between Anakin and Obi-Wan due to their respective flaws proves to be the downfall of a great friendship. The average Republic citizen's sense of feeling out of touch with the Senate brings about growing unhappiness and a chance for Palpatine to gain power. Jedi and specifically Yoda's seclusion away from the rest of the galaxy proves to be their undoing as they lose their connection with the living and are surprised by the power of Palpatine and the treachery of one of their own. Anakin's severed attachment to his wife and unborn child (due to their apparent death), the family that kept his own dark instincts in check, proves be his tragic push towards the dark side.
Eventually the galaxy's descent into darkness is ended by the heroes being connected to one another. Luke leaves the secluded Tatooine and becomes part of the larger world. The Jedi's (Obi-Wan, Yoda) isolation finally ends with their teachings to Luke, the children of Skywalker (without knowing it) become stronger once reunited, and even Darth Vader moves from being a willing apprentice of Palpatine to a rebellious pupil offering to overthrow him once he discovers his son is alive.
The other major running element is hope and idealism. The Republic (much like America in the era prior to Star Wars' release) is one made of cynical views towards government and in many ways each other. The Jedi don't get heavily involved with Republic affairs, believing they'll simply be part of petty politics. People continually show heavy skepticism towards Jedi knights and the powers they use, neither of which they've really seen.
Anakin's defining trait by contrast is his overwhelming belief that he as a Jedi can make a galaxy a better place. Its this aspect that makes him among the greatest of the Jedi, precisely because he embodies the spirit of being a guardian of peace and justice better than anyone. And its this fact that eventually makes his fall so tragic. Because Anakin's story is continually one of sacrifice: Leaving his family on Tatooine and likely not being able to come back given Owen's grudge. Not expressing his feelings of doubt and internal struggle to his master because Ben had placed so much faith in him being a great student. Seeing his own wife less than he could because his role in the Clone Wars was so critical. Being able to move on from all the good people he's seen die in this war.
And he does these things even with all the lonely nights, fallen comrades, and troubled thoughts, as he still believed in the good intentions and ability of the Republic and the Jedi to bring justice to the galaxy. Because he still had faith. But once he believes he's lost his family... its the one sacrifice that was too much. Once they're gone, the Darth Vader in him, the one who had continually said that ruthless measures would get real results and that more power was necessary to bring true justice to the galaxy, he murders Anakin. There will be peace by his hand at any cost, and he will create a world where no innocent people will be destroyed thanks to those starting a war.
This loss of optimism ultimately affects Yoda and Kenobi as well. Both believe that Luke must destroy Vader, as there's nothing left of Skywalker in him. The Clone Wars and their terrible consequences leave the two unable to see the real power of Anakin's son lies in his love and forgiveness. The "New Hope" Luke represents is ultimately the one that brings back faith and idealism in others; from a scoundrel like Han to eventually his own father. Luke's very existence changes Darth somewhat, though his offer of power to Luke in ESB shows how Vader's still distorting Anakin's sense of justice.
But in ROTJ, Luke's demonstrates love and faith in his father; tossing away his lightsaber rather than destroying him even though it would be so easy and understandable for him to do so. Its that moment in which Darth Vader dies, because his entire belief in callous ruthlessness proves to be wrong. Anakin Skywalker is reborn, and upon feeling genuine belief for the first time in decades, sees Palpatine for what he really is, and saves his son, just as he saved him.
Hence we come full circle. The loss of idealism by the Jedi is undone by one optimistic young man who still believed in spite of it all. Over three movies Anakin Skywalker lost all hope. And over three movies, thanks to his son, he regained it.
To me, having these themes doesn't just explain the original trilogy, it enriches it.
@CWBorne
I think you are so right on with the points you make here. I think the biggest reason that Star Wars resonates with people and especially for me, are the themes dealing with the importance of family and friends. There is a certain sense of idealism that runs throughout the entire movies which I think compounds the insult that is the prequels. Because the actual making of the prequels themselves were everything contrary -- the words that come to mind are selling out, money and greed -- not idealism, or trying to convey anything meaningful or valuable. Without the sacrifice by Vader for his son, without Luke willing to put himself in grave danger to save his friends and his father, Star Wars wouldn't be Star Wars. I think any good Star Wars movie has to have these themes revolving around the main characters. In Star Wars, this idealism at the individual level personifies and is projected onto the Rebellion vs. the Empire. I think that's why it all works so well. And I believe that's why when I watched the prequels, I could care less about any of the characters and then ultimately could care less about the galaxy. No one stood for anything or had any meaningful relationship with anyone. There were no believable family or friend relationships in any of it, in my view. Nor did I understand anyone's world view, I know there were empty gestures and pretense, but I really can't remember anything precise or meaningful.