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Prequel Nostalgia

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AOTC is 20 years old this year the Prequels represent a lot of nostalgia for some generations as the Original Trilogy was at the time
how old were you when TPM came out? i was 1 year old my fanaticism for Star Wars really started when i watched Tartakovsky Clone Wars series when i was 4 or 5 after seeing that show i started watching all the movies and reading the Old Dark Horse Clone Wars Republic Comics even if i like the OT more the Prequels they still have a special place in my heart i remember watching Revenge of the Sith in theaters when i was 6

What are your memories you have with the Prequels?

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I was 3 when Phantom Menace came out, but I didn’t see it or know about it at the time. I was introduced to Star Wars through the OT on VHS, then learned about TPM around 2001. I remember being confused at the time, because people kept referring to “the Star Wars trilogy,” and yet there was a new fourth movie.

But I really got into Star Wars in 2002, during the leadup and marketing for AotC. That was when my obsession started, and even though I didn’t actually like AotC that much when I finally saw it, I loved the toys and merch that went along with it. Even today, all of the merch and imagery for AotC gives me a very nostalgic feeling.

Right before AotC came out, I was given TPM on DVD, which was the first Star Wars movie I owned. While my family would rent one of the OT films every other weekend, and we would watch the OT as a family, I was usually the only one interested in rewatching TPM, so I’d most often watch it by myself and skip around to my favorite action scenes.

I saw RotS in the theater when I was 9, and it was a pretty awesome experience. It was my first time being really excited on my way to see a movie, and it really blew my child mind. Though I will admit, even back then, there were some moments and lines of dialogue that were unintentionally funny. Of course, once I got the movie on DVD, I rewatched it like crazy. Weirdly, though, I still don’t get that nostalgic feeling from RotS as much as I do from the first two prequels. I’m not sure why.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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I watched the originals on VHS constantly and I’ve always been into the books, video games, and other stuff. I went to The Phantom Menace in theaters for my birthday (6 or 7 I think.) I loved it, loved all the merchandise and stuff. I fondly remember having some Darth Maul slapbands. When episode 2 came out I was hyped and I liked seeing it but something did feel kind of off, I didn’t like Anakin’s character and I didn’t care about any scenes with him and Padme, or C3PO and R2D2 (still feel exactly the same way.) I really liked the Tartakovsky Clone Wars. When episode 3 came out I was extremely hyped and I loved it, watched it as many times as I could.

As I got older I started to see why people didn’t like the prequels and I started developing my own opinions about them. I still like The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith a lot more than Attack of the Clones. I think if the middle movie was altered significantly (particularly in regard to Anakin and the Jedi) it could have been a really nice complete whole.

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Vladius said:

I watched the originals on VHS constantly and I’ve always been into the books, video games, and other stuff. I went to The Phantom Menace in theaters for my birthday (6 or 7 I think.) I loved it, loved all the merchandise and stuff. I fondly remember having some Darth Maul slapbands. When episode 2 came out I was hyped and I liked seeing it but something did feel kind of off, I didn’t like Anakin’s character and I didn’t care about any scenes with him and Padme, or C3PO and R2D2 (still feel exactly the same way.) I really liked the Tartakovsky Clone Wars. When episode 3 came out I was extremely hyped and I loved it, watched it as many times as I could.

As I got older I started to see why people didn’t like the prequels and I started developing my own opinions about them. I still like The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith a lot more than Attack of the Clones. I think if the middle movie was altered significantly (particularly in regard to Anakin and the Jedi) it could have been a really nice complete whole.

I am much older than you (I was 7 when I saw ANH), and I felt the same way about the PT Films. I really enjoyed TPM (yes, even Jar Jar) and to this day think it was a great start to the new trilogy. Being a Star Trek fan as well, I was used to inconsistent movie installment and TPM felt like a great but not best installment. When AOTC came along, I felt something was off. A few places in the first viewing and then others as I have watched it over again. ROTS felt closer to TPM, but didn’t quite make it.

The part of AOTC I like is the romance. Some don’t, but to me it feels very much like a classic movie. And the ages remind me of my grandparents and how my grandmother told of their romance. My grandfather was 5 years younger and used to be friends with her brothers, then moved away. When he came back at 19 or 20, he romanced her and they got married in November 1929. Between that and my love of classic movie story telling (Check out Robert Donat’s Goodbye Mr. Chips and that romance) and the close parallel to a story in my family, there is just nothing about it I would change (even the “I hate sand” exchange).

What fails for me in AOTC is that it should be a buddy movie. Anakin is about ready to be tested and become a Jedi Knight. That should have been part of the story. Instead Obi-wan is the bossy teacher and Anakin is the petulant student. I think this totally ruins the movie. The issue with the droids I was able to fix in an edit, but the lack of buddy chemistry is just an absence from the film or from anything shot for the film. Just where they are at in their journey is wrong. He picked the wrong point. He should have taken his Jedi trials during the film (a training sequence similar to Luke on Dagobah) and become a Jedi knight before the Clone War started. He could have an incident during his trials that show how close he is to the edge. As I write this, I can see where it should fit. Just after Padme’s ship explodes and we see she is allright, it cuts to Anakin in his Jedi trials. Instead of arguing with Obi-wan in front of Padme, he almost slips and almost fails his trials, but he succeeds and they take the assignment to protect Padme before they have a chance to formalize Anakin’s elevation to knighthood (another opportunity for some conflict, similar to the master bit in ROTS) and then the rest could procced much the same. Just shorten that damned droid factory scene… or eliminate it. So many better ways to spend time story telling in a Star Wars film. And it would enhance ROTS as well and maybe make that a better film.

Also, Lucas was too subtle in his PT story telling. He needed to be more in your face with some things. With Palpatine subtle was good, with Anakin’s fall it wasn’t.

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I was 11, 14, and 17 when TPM, AOTC, & ROTS came out, the “right” age to enjoy them. I have absolutely zero nostalgia for any of them. I can’t think of a more grossly overrated set of movies if I tried. If Ed Wood had been a multi-millionaire with access to early 21st century VFX, he would’ve made movies of exactly the same quality.

90% blue, 10% pink.

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If Ed Wood had been a multi-millionaire with access to early 21st century VFX, he would’ve made movies of exactly the same quality.

That’s part of the charm of the prequels for me, honestly. The fact that they’re so unapologetically George’s movies, with all the good and bad that that entails. It’s preferable to movies that feel like they were made by a board room.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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Servii said:

If Ed Wood had been a multi-millionaire with access to early 21st century VFX, he would’ve made movies of exactly the same quality.

That’s part of the charm of the prequels for me, honestly. The fact that they’re so unapologetically George’s movies, with all the good and bad that that entails. It’s preferable to movies that feel like they were made by a board room.

I wish more prequel fans thought this way, really. I can understand loving the prequels, warts and all. What I can’t fathom is the mentality that insists there are no warts.

90% blue, 10% pink.

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Superweapon VII said:

Servii said:

If Ed Wood had been a multi-millionaire with access to early 21st century VFX, he would’ve made movies of exactly the same quality.

That’s part of the charm of the prequels for me, honestly. The fact that they’re so unapologetically George’s movies, with all the good and bad that that entails. It’s preferable to movies that feel like they were made by a board room.

I wish more prequel fans thought this way, really. I can understand loving the prequels, warts and all. What I can’t fathom is the mentality that insists there are no warts.

Or the off screen explanations or excuses approaching Olympic level gymnastics trying to reason why there are no warts.

Why not accept just the warts, most films have them if you look hard enough. Fans of the OT and ST, to me, appear to accept the warts in Star Wars more than fans of the PT. I am not sure why it is.

Don’t you want to fight these bastards for real?

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Superweapon VII said:

Servii said:

If Ed Wood had been a multi-millionaire with access to early 21st century VFX, he would’ve made movies of exactly the same quality.

That’s part of the charm of the prequels for me, honestly. The fact that they’re so unapologetically George’s movies, with all the good and bad that that entails. It’s preferable to movies that feel like they were made by a board room.

I wish more prequel fans thought this way, really. I can understand loving the prequels, warts and all. What I can’t fathom is the mentality that insists there are no warts.

Yeah, it’s a strange phenomenon. A few years ago, it seemed like prequel fans used to be more laid back and more open to criticism of the movies. They used to be more willing to laugh alongside you at the prequels’ ridiculous moments. But as time has gone on, the prequel fandom has gotten more and more fervent and unironic and sensitive to criticism, which is a shame. Now you have all these video essays about how the prequels are masterpieces and how the flaws aren’t actually flaws.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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I feel like I might be the youngest person here!

I didn’t start getting into Star Wars until I was about 7 or 8 which is when the '08 Clone Wars began, though I wouldn’t say I was fully obsessed with it till I was around 10. At the time the original six film saga had already been fully released so I had grown up with the whole saga as one and have nostalgia for all of it. In fact, my first time seeing Star Wars in theaters was the 3D rerelease of Phantom Menace back in 2012.

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Servii said:

Superweapon VII said:

Servii said:

If Ed Wood had been a multi-millionaire with access to early 21st century VFX, he would’ve made movies of exactly the same quality.

That’s part of the charm of the prequels for me, honestly. The fact that they’re so unapologetically George’s movies, with all the good and bad that that entails. It’s preferable to movies that feel like they were made by a board room.

I wish more prequel fans thought this way, really. I can understand loving the prequels, warts and all. What I can’t fathom is the mentality that insists there are no warts.

Yeah, it’s a strange phenomenon. A few years ago, it seemed like prequel fans used to be more laid back and more open to criticism of the movies. They used to be more willing to laugh alongside you at the prequels’ ridiculous moments. But as time has gone on, the prequel fandom has gotten more and more fervent and unironic and sensitive to criticism, which is a shame. Now you have all these video essays about how the prequels are masterpieces and how the flaws aren’t actually flaws.

I’m pretty sure it is people in my age demographic who are the most like this, and it’s actually the thing that makes me feel a bit disenfranchised when it comes to talking with fellow Prequel fans because I accept they are flawed movies, but I still cherish them.

When I first heard about prequel criticism I’ll admit I was a bit shocked, but after listening to more of the arguments I found that I did agree with many of them. It’s actually a funny story because on of the first criticisms I heard about these movies came from my middle school theater arts teacher who said “Jar Jar Binks is one of the problems with those movies.” Of course I disagree with that point, I’ve always loved Jar Jar, but it did “wake me up” so to say.

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I really don’t have nostalgia for them. I do have a soft spot for Phantom Menace. I enjoyed the laserdisc preservation and 35mm preservation. But i watched them once. I also watched the official 2020 versions of the prequel trilogy once. And filed them away. Menace and Revenge are decent sci fi movies, they aren’t even great or good Star Wars films. Attack of the Clones was easily the worst Star Wars ever until Rise of Skywalker.

The prequel era is great. Only for the stuff outside the films like novels, comics and video games. Animated shows. Most of that stuff Disney has said isn’t canon. The sole exception being Filoni Clone Wars.

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Yeah, it’s a strange phenomenon. A few years ago, it seemed like prequel fans used to be more laid back and more open to criticism of the movies. They used to be more willing to laugh alongside you at the prequels’ ridiculous moments. But as time has gone on, the prequel fandom has gotten more and more fervent and unironic and sensitive to criticism, which is a shame. Now you have all these video essays about how the prequels are masterpieces and how the flaws aren’t actually flaws.

I don’t want to start an unnecessary controversy, but I want to give my opinion on this topic, since I’m a Prequel fan.
I’m one of those people who’s not bothered by the things that annoy everyone. For example, the dialogue and the love story don’t bother me, as well as Jar Jar. So, I personally don’t see these things as flaws. However, I think it’s wrong to say that the Prequels have no flaws in general. But I think that the people who say that the Prequels have no flaws are driven to do so because, on the other side, there are people who say that they have ONLY flaws. That is, people of one extreme act the way they act because on the other side there are people of the other extreme. Since there are people who say that the Prequels have ONLY flaws, then there are people who, as an automatic reaction, defend everything about the movies and say they have NO flaws. The fact that there are no Original Trilogy fans who defend everything about the movies, is explained simply by the fact that there are no people who say that the Originals have only flaws, unlike the Prequels.

«This is where the fun begins!»
(Anakin Skywalker)

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Darth Malgus said:

Yeah, it’s a strange phenomenon. A few years ago, it seemed like prequel fans used to be more laid back and more open to criticism of the movies. They used to be more willing to laugh alongside you at the prequels’ ridiculous moments. But as time has gone on, the prequel fandom has gotten more and more fervent and unironic and sensitive to criticism, which is a shame. Now you have all these video essays about how the prequels are masterpieces and how the flaws aren’t actually flaws.

I don’t want to start an unnecessary controversy, but I want to give my opinion on this topic, since I’m a Prequel fan.
I’m one of those people who’s not bothered by the things that annoy everyone. For example, the dialogue and the love story don’t bother me, as well as Jar Jar. So, I personally don’t see these things as flaws. However, I think it’s wrong to say that the Prequels have no flaws in general. But I think that the people who say that the Prequels have no flaws are driven to do so because, on the other side, there are people who say that they have ONLY flaws. That is, people of one extreme act the way they act because on the other side there are people of the other extreme. Since there are people who say that the Prequels have ONLY flaws, then there are people who, as an automatic reaction, defend everything about the movies and say they have NO flaws. The fact that there are no Original Trilogy fans who defend everything about the movies, is explained simply by the fact that there are no people who say that the Originals have only flaws, unlike the Prequels.

Yeah, I get what you mean. It’s a reaction in the opposite direction from the hyper-critical Plinkett takes on the prequels. I should clarify, I consider myself a prequel fan. I like a lot of movies that other people dislike for various valid reasons. That’s something I’m used to, from being also a Godzilla fan. I think it’s the nature of social media that causes people to get more defensive about the movies they like.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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Darth Malgus said:

Yeah, it’s a strange phenomenon. A few years ago, it seemed like prequel fans used to be more laid back and more open to criticism of the movies. They used to be more willing to laugh alongside you at the prequels’ ridiculous moments. But as time has gone on, the prequel fandom has gotten more and more fervent and unironic and sensitive to criticism, which is a shame. Now you have all these video essays about how the prequels are masterpieces and how the flaws aren’t actually flaws.

I don’t want to start an unnecessary controversy, but I want to give my opinion on this topic, since I’m a Prequel fan.
I’m one of those people who’s not bothered by the things that annoy everyone. For example, the dialogue and the love story don’t bother me, as well as Jar Jar. So, I personally don’t see these things as flaws. However, I think it’s wrong to say that the Prequels have no flaws in general. But I think that the people who say that the Prequels have no flaws are driven to do so because, on the other side, there are people who say that they have ONLY flaws. That is, people of one extreme act the way they act because on the other side there are people of the other extreme. Since there are people who say that the Prequels have ONLY flaws, then there are people who, as an automatic reaction, defend everything about the movies and say they have NO flaws. The fact that there are no Original Trilogy fans who defend everything about the movies, is explained simply by the fact that there are no people who say that the Originals have only flaws, unlike the Prequels.

I agree with this.

What I’m about to say may not be the perfect analogy to describe it, but I’ll try anyway: Its like a pendulum swing. For so long discourse over the prequels was held in such a critical regard that its completely swung in the other direction, especially as those of us who grew up with them can now respond to those critiques.

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I understand the Prequels movies had flaws but the supplemental content like the EU Clone Wars books videogames the Republic comics Tartakovsky Clone Wars and TCW CGI show make it worth it for me and the Prequels movies now turning 20 years old i feel more nostalgic for them the CGI is amazing for their age i think they aged well and they have a retro touch as well as modern

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Servii said:

But as time has gone on, the prequel fandom has gotten more and more fervent and unironic and sensitive to criticism, which is a shame. Now you have all these video essays about how the prequels are masterpieces and how the flaws aren’t actually flaws.

I feel this, at one point I was on this side before I kinda came around to the realization that they’re just not that well-written. Even ROTS I still mostly like more for it’s mythological motifs, themes, visuals, and music more then the writing. The best scenes are the ones with either Palpatine (because Ian McDiarmid is fucking awesome) or the ones where no one is talking. The opening act and third act are also pretty awesome.

A lot of time headcanon or supplemental material (a lot of which isn’t even canon anymore, which is why you’ll see people mixing up Legends and Canon all the time) is used to explain bad writing. “The Jedi come across as too bored and uncaring… actually you see, it was supposed to be that way! They’re supposed to be an emotionally repressed cult! It all makes sense now!”. Nope, George is just a flat dialogue writer who failed to get his intent across, making many people misunderstand the entire point. Among other things.

There’s a lot I love about Lucas because when you read what he was intending for for the prequels it really is brilliant, but man he needed someone else helping him with his scripts.

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G&G-Fan said:

Servii said:

But as time has gone on, the prequel fandom has gotten more and more fervent and unironic and sensitive to criticism, which is a shame. Now you have all these video essays about how the prequels are masterpieces and how the flaws aren’t actually flaws.

I feel this, at one point I was on this side before I kinda came around to the realization that they’re just not that well-written. Even ROTS I still mostly like more for it’s mythological motifs, themes, visuals, and music more then the writing. The best scenes are the ones with either Palpatine (because Ian McDiarmid is fucking awesome) or the ones where no one is talking. The opening act and third act are also pretty awesome.

A lot of time headcanon or supplemental material (a lot of which isn’t even canon anymore, which is why you’ll see people mixing up Legends and Canon all the time) is used to explain bad writing. “The Jedi come across as too bored and uncaring… actually you see, it was supposed to be that way! They’re supposed to be an emotionally repressed cult! It all makes sense now!”. Nope, George is just a flat dialogue writer who failed to get his intent across, making many people misunderstand the entire point. Among other things.

There’s a lot I love about Lucas because when you read what he was intending for for the prequels it really is brilliant, but man he needed someone else helping him with his scripts.

That is the unvarnished truth. And it is somewhat ironic that he had help credited on AOTC and that one turned out the worst. He needed some quality help, like Kazdan, who showed he still had it with Solo.

I think the success of the originals are George’s genius story telling coupled with a lot of outside input to refine the story and the dialog. The various interviews reveal how much help he had on A New Hope and we can see how much he had on TESB And ROTJ. When it came to the prequels, no one evidently wanted to help him with the scripts or direct them. So what you have is more purely George than in the OT. The PT definitely reveal his flaws and where his genius lies. And I personally feel the ST would have been a repeat of the PT, perhaps worse, if George had done them himself. At least this way everyone can blame Abrams, Johnson, and Kennedy for the flaws (even blaming them for some decisions George made before selling to Disney).

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There’s a lot I love about Lucas because when you read what he was intending for for the prequels it really is brilliant, but man he needed someone else helping him with his scripts.

Thank God it didn’t turn out the way George wanted to, because otherwise I would have hated the Prequels, and perhaps the entire Star Wars franchise. Lol. As I said multiple times, it’s ironically George bad writing that precisely saved the Prequels from being hated from me.

«This is where the fun begins!»
(Anakin Skywalker)

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Darth Malgus said:

There’s a lot I love about Lucas because when you read what he was intending for for the prequels it really is brilliant, but man he needed someone else helping him with his scripts.

Thank God it didn’t turn out the way George wanted to, because otherwise I would have hated the Prequels, and perhaps the entire Star Wars franchise. Lol. As I said multiple times, it’s ironically George bad writing that precisely saved the Prequels from being hated from me.

I wouldn’t say I’d hate the prequels, but I agree with you that the whole Jedi ethos that George intended in the prequels is inhuman in many ways. When Yoda tells Anakin “mourn them do not. Miss them do not,” George intended for Yoda to be right in saying that. But the prequels actually become more compelling if you interpret that scene as Yoda being wrong.

I’ve also made peace with the fact that, even if George’s sequel trilogy had happened, I wouldn’t have liked its characterization of Luke. The chance of the sequels giving us a married, pro-relationships Luke Skywalker was always slim to none.

But we can’t turn back. Fear is their greatest defense. I doubt if the actual security there is any greater than it was on Aquilae or Sullust. And what there is is most likely directed towards a large-scale assault.

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Servii said:

I wouldn’t say I’d hate the prequels, but I agree with you that the whole Jedi ethos that George intended in the prequels is inhuman in many ways. When Yoda tells Anakin “mourn them do not. Miss them do not,” George intended for Yoda to be right in saying that.

Except it’s not. In that scene, Yoda’s in a situation where Anakin is giving almost no information, to the point where Yoda literally needs to complete his sentences for him. If Anakin’s only gonna give him vague information, Yoda can only give generalities. And Yoda speaks in riddles.

So, with regards to the part about “rejoicing for those around you who transform into the force”, that’s simply Yoda’s way of saying “when you’re sad, try to remember the good times you had together”. This is also fair advice. He’s not telling Anakin “how dare you mourn or be sad instead of laughing! Bad Anakin! Start dancing and celebrating! Now!”

He’s telling Anakin to cherish the moments he had with that person that’s about to die, which will, in turn help him accept that inevitability, come to the conclusion that they had a good run. Instead of pulling back from these fears and this pain, he should face them head on and accept that it’s happening.

It’s very general advice, but it’s good advice.

I mean, they hold a funeral for Qui-Gon in which they’re allowed to mourn. Obi-Wan mourned for both Qui-Gon and Satine, Tiplee mourned Tiplar, right after their deaths. Hell, Yoda also mourns the Jedi that die during Order 66 and Padme’s death. He allows himself to feel the pain of Anakin’s loss in AOTC and kinda “mourns” for it too. There’s literally a funeral for the Jedi that die in the attack on the temple in The Clone Wars in which they’re allowed to mourn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUCzrOh9_oU

This scene is a perfect showcase of how the Jedi deal with loss.

As I’ve said like several times, the only reason the Jedi come across as inhuman is both flat dialogue and the fact that Lucas never develops any of the Jedi characters besides the ones that come across as “exceptional” (Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Qui-Gon, who’s held up on this pedestal as “the one good Jedi” because he receives the most development outside Obi and Yoda). They’re just flat generic good guys, allowing the audience to project whatever they want on them. You can twist Mace Windu from “stern Jedi Knight” to “total asshole dickhead who hates Anakin” because he doesn’t have much screentime or development in the prequels and because of that it’s easy to take everything he says and does in the least charitable way possible. Mace is fed up with the Chancellor grabbing power and is wary of Anakin because he’s explosive, unpredictable and doesn’t have a full grasp on his emotions? “Actually you see he hates Anakin because he thinks he’s the real chosen one! What an asshole!”

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I feel like the prequels would absolutely not be “ruined” if they were written well in terms of portraying Lucas’ intentions. In fact it’s kinda laughable IMO to say that making the audience care about and sympathathize with the Jedi, show them as kind and compassionate monks would make the movies worse. Imagine how much more heartbreaking Order 66 would’ve been if you actually cared about Ki-Adi Mundi and Plo-Koon, and the impact that Anakin betraying them all would have. The messages about not becoming too possessive of people and being selfish in your relationships wouldn’t be muddied. People would realize what Anakin actually did wrong instead of blaming the Council for his actions. You wouldn’t have people saying that the Sith “aren’t actually that bad”, despite the fact that the guy who wrote the Sith code openly said he was inspired by Mein Kampf and Lucas compares Sidious to Satan, that “bringing balance to the force means destroying the Jedi too”, or “the dark side isn’t inherently bad to use” (yeah, it is).

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Would we have gotten Creepio if the PT had lived up to its intentions? I remember the Auralnauts guys saying that Threepio had gotten “a raw deal” in the PT and Creepio was their way of riffing on that.