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Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo — Page 192

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Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

Jetrell Fo said:

CatBus, I saw this article and it made me think about your post about Trump, not you.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pastor-rick-henderson/why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-a-good-atheist_b_4442287.html

I am an atheist, and I disagree with all three of his “imperatives”.

It seemed odd and that is why I posted it. I do find it a little confusing at times to distinguish such claims because I don’t think I’ve ever really got the same answer from folks who describe themselves as atheist or agnostic. I’d like to think it’s up to each individual’s experience that ultimately defines who they are with regards to religion.

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Jetrell Fo said:

CatBus, I saw this article and it made me think about your post about Trump, not you.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/pastor-rick-henderson/why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-a-good-atheist_b_4442287.html

I’ve got to make another post, because that article is just frustratingly dumb.

In a Hail Mary-like attempt to reconcile the inescapability of objective morality and their assurances of atheism, two possible answers are launched.

  1. Morality is the result of socio-biological evolution.

  2. Morality is logical.

What about 3; morality is based in empathy? People learn about the “golden rule” in kindergarten. It’s an idea that existed before Judaism and Christianity, in very distant parts of the world. It’s convenient that he left that one out, despite it being the most common argument against his line of bullshit.

Intelligent people ask serious questions.

And sometimes unintelligent people ask serious questions, as proven here by Mr. Henderson.

Serious questions deserve serious answers. There are few questions more serious than the one I’m asking. How do we explain objective meaning and morality that we know are true? If a worldview can’t answer this question, it doesn’t deserve you.

One sign that your worldview may be a crutch is that it has to appeal to an answer outside itself — becoming self-contradictory, unable to reasonably account for the question. Any atheist who recognizes objective meaning and morality defies the atheism that he contends is true.

Not a worldview. Despite your insistence that it’s something more, atheism really is just a lack of a belief in God.

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CatBus said:

So, Pravda on the Checkout Line is pushing the story that Flynn was a Russian spy. While traditionally, nothing resembling the truth can ever come out of that place, for the past several months, people have had some success applying the principles of Kremlinology to the tabloid. i.e. you don’t ever learn the truth per se, but you learn who’s in, who’s out (as in out of favor, not necessarily out of a job), and who’s going to fall off a roof next week.

Aaaand now we know why Flynn is out of favor:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-flynn-offers-to-testify-in-exchange-for-immunity-1490912959

That said, this sort of thing has been a double-fake-out before, where they ask for immunity and then proceed to “testify” to some cover story implicating nobody in any wrongdoing whatsoever, and in the meantime, suck up all the media coverage a la Oliver North. Also worth noting nobody’s yet taken him up on his offer–if I were the FBI, I’d pass too.

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CatBus said:

CatBus said:

So, Pravda on the Checkout Line is pushing the story that Flynn was a Russian spy. While traditionally, nothing resembling the truth can ever come out of that place, for the past several months, people have had some success applying the principles of Kremlinology to the tabloid. i.e. you don’t ever learn the truth per se, but you learn who’s in, who’s out (as in out of favor, not necessarily out of a job), and who’s going to fall off a roof next week.

Aaaand now we know why Flynn is out of favor:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-flynn-offers-to-testify-in-exchange-for-immunity-1490912959

That said, this sort of thing has been a double-fake-out before, where they ask for immunity and then proceed to testify to nothing as serious as a jaywalking offense, and in the meantime, suck up all the media coverage a la Al Capone’s vault. Also worth noting nobody’s yet taken him up on his offer.

I haven’t seen anything myself that confirms or denies that Flynn is out of favor and asking for immunity in exchange for his testimony. There isn’t even any irrefutable proof that he was asked to resign due to wrongdoing of any kind. It could be entirely true, it might not be, but I wouldn’t even bet my mother’s retirement on this article’s substance or lack of.

😉

If you’re being sarcastic, I admit I missed it entirely, LOL. If not, I’m ok.

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Jetrell Fo said:

CatBus said:

CatBus said:

So, Pravda on the Checkout Line is pushing the story that Flynn was a Russian spy. While traditionally, nothing resembling the truth can ever come out of that place, for the past several months, people have had some success applying the principles of Kremlinology to the tabloid. i.e. you don’t ever learn the truth per se, but you learn who’s in, who’s out (as in out of favor, not necessarily out of a job), and who’s going to fall off a roof next week.

Aaaand now we know why Flynn is out of favor:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-flynn-offers-to-testify-in-exchange-for-immunity-1490912959

That said, this sort of thing has been a double-fake-out before, where they ask for immunity and then proceed to testify to nothing as serious as a jaywalking offense, and in the meantime, suck up all the media coverage a la Al Capone’s vault. Also worth noting nobody’s yet taken him up on his offer.

I haven’t seen anything myself that confirms or denies that Flynn is out of favor and asking for immunity in exchange for his testimony. There isn’t even any irrefutable proof that he was asked to resign due to wrongdoing of any kind. It could be entirely true, it might not be, but I wouldn’t even bet my mother’s retirement on this article’s substance or lack of.

😉

If you’re being sarcastic, I admit I missed it entirely, LOL. If not, I’m ok.

“Out of favor” was tongue-in-cheek Kremlinology-speak (and who doesn’t smile when saying “Out like Flynn”?). Asking for immunity… the link’s right there. Feel free to click. I know the Wall Street Journal’s not up there with Zerohedge in your book, but there are some who consider it a fairly reputable source.

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CatBus said:

Jetrell Fo said:

CatBus said:

CatBus said:

So, Pravda on the Checkout Line is pushing the story that Flynn was a Russian spy. While traditionally, nothing resembling the truth can ever come out of that place, for the past several months, people have had some success applying the principles of Kremlinology to the tabloid. i.e. you don’t ever learn the truth per se, but you learn who’s in, who’s out (as in out of favor, not necessarily out of a job), and who’s going to fall off a roof next week.

Aaaand now we know why Flynn is out of favor:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-flynn-offers-to-testify-in-exchange-for-immunity-1490912959

That said, this sort of thing has been a double-fake-out before, where they ask for immunity and then proceed to testify to nothing as serious as a jaywalking offense, and in the meantime, suck up all the media coverage a la Al Capone’s vault. Also worth noting nobody’s yet taken him up on his offer.

I haven’t seen anything myself that confirms or denies that Flynn is out of favor and asking for immunity in exchange for his testimony. There isn’t even any irrefutable proof that he was asked to resign due to wrongdoing of any kind. It could be entirely true, it might not be, but I wouldn’t even bet my mother’s retirement on this article’s substance or lack of.

😉

If you’re being sarcastic, I admit I missed it entirely, LOL. If not, I’m ok.

“Out of favor” was tongue-in-cheek Kremlinology-speak (and who doesn’t smile when saying “Out like Flynn”?). Asking for immunity… the link’s right there. Feel free to click. I know the Wall Street Journal’s not up there with Zerohedge in your book, but there are some who consider it a fairly reputable source.

Your sarcasm aside, this … “according to officials with knowledge of the matter.” … does not equal accurate. This scenario is being floated around so much with articles from the press that I fail to jump for joy every time I read a story with this so called confirmation included.

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/full-clapper-no-evidence-of-collusion-between-trump-and-russia-890509379597

If Flynn is actually seeking immunity for testimony, he may be wanting discuss crimes committed that helped start this “russian narrative” mess. There is an article in NPR that reports, as other outlets have, that Flynn would not be charged with wrongdoing because he did nothing wrong.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/15/515437291/intelligence-official-transcripts-of-flynns-calls-dont-show-criminal-wrongdoing

Sorry, try CNN, maybe they have proof. 😉

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Jetrell Fo said:

If Flynn is actually seeking immunity for testimony, he may be wanting discuss crimes committed that helped start this “russian narrative” mess. There is an article in NPR that reports, as other outlets have, that Flynn would not be charged with wrongdoing because he did nothing wrong.

Certainly there are varying opinions on what an immunity deal means. Here’s one opinion, but I’ll admit the source is kinda sketchy.

“When you are given immunity that probably means you’ve committed a crime.”
– Lt. Gen Michael Flynn (Ret), Sept 2016

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CatBus said:

Jetrell Fo said:

If Flynn is actually seeking immunity for testimony, he may be wanting discuss crimes committed that helped start this “russian narrative” mess. There is an article in NPR that reports, as other outlets have, that Flynn would not be charged with wrongdoing because he did nothing wrong.

Certainly there are varying opinions on what an immunity deal means. Here’s one opinion, but I’ll admit the source is kinda sketchy.

“When you are given immunity that probably means you’ve committed a crime.”
– Lt. Gen Michael Flynn (Ret), Sept 2016

As shaky as that may be, it doesn’t seem to mention the type of crime committed, does it.

😉

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Sure, the FBI may have him on a jaywalking rap he can’t beat. That’s absolutely mathematically possible.

In other news, lots of sites are making hay about the remark by the FBI Special Agent in the Senate Intelligence Committee today: “The commander-in-chief has used Russian active measures at times against his opponents.” It’s fairly dressed up in impressive lingo (active measures and all that), but really he’s talking about stuff that’s already public knowledge–remember, this was an open session–no classified stuff allowed, so this is not indicating any information from the ongoing FBI investigation, as some seem to be hoping.

So what’s he referring to then? The Sputnik link I mentioned earlier, which basically showed that Russian intelligence did in at least one case alter the leaked DNC e-mails to make them look incriminating, and that altered version made a direct line from the Sputnik site to a Trump speech a few hours later without hitting any other news or propaganda sources first–which was made even less probable by the fact that Sputnik pulled the article off their website almost immediately after publishing it (probably because it was provably doctored). So common public knowledge for the past six months, dressed up like a bombshell. But really it’s the same-old, same-old. Yes, Russian intelligence used the mail to support their desired election result (Russian active measures). And Trump used that material at a speed that makes it appear it was sent right to his campaign (used against his opponents). I’d like to hear something we didn’t know long before the election happened.

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The odd thing about what you say CatBus, is that it was Obama who changed the Intelligence rules, to allow “better and quicker” communication between numerous Global Intelligence agencies. It was put in to effect before he left office. Obama started tweaking these Intelligence rules as far back as 2011.

Early on, before the election, there were quiet rumblings about our Intelligence community, that didn’t get a lot of press. There seemed to be a narrative that some of our own Intelligence folks knew about Clinton’s “private” server and the pay for play, and that they may have hacked the DNC server to release or “leak” the info to try and get it out there. Since it has been shown that our Intelligence community does have tools to make it look as if others were doing they hacking, it would make a great smoke screen. A digital version of “wag the dog”, if you will. Make it look authentic, make it look like Russia.

IF, the “Russian Narative” investigation were already going on before Trump was sworn in it is probable that the “hacked info” evidence somehow made it to them. Trumps own people may not have even been aware of it and that may have set off or gave “cause” to their “surveillance” of some Trump Campaign team members because they already knew that specific information had been purposely leaked to the Russians because they recognized their own work. It may have then been given to the Democrats to take the advantage away from those that wanted Clinton fried.

President Obama was in support of better ties with Russia but maybe his intentions, our Governments intentions, were duplicitous to a specific agenda.

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Wow. Okay. Moving right along.

So there’s a saying (I’m too young to know if it’s true) that in 1969, Nixon voters could be found everywhere. In 1974, they were getting scarce. And by 1976, you couldn’t find anyone who’d voted for Nixon.

HA Goodman started an interesting trend. At first, he was just a fairly transparent Republican operative, right? This libertarian Republican who decided to jump right into supporting a Socialist, but rarely actually says very much about his newfound love for those lefty policies–instead he pretty much does nothing but attack the Democratic Party. But “from the left”, get it? Not from the right. Maybe he’ll convince an unsuspecting reporter or voter to think he’s not a Republican, and try to initiate a narrative about the chasm between Bernie and Hillary. You’ve got Goodman’s followers booing Bernie at the convention to, uh, show their love for Bernie (or something, I’m sure it made sense to them). That made some headlines, and it kinda worked for a while, successfully drawing the media’s focus away from the actual lack of any serious split between Bernie and Hillary.

But then something odd happened after the election. He (and others) kept going, he’s still doing his Bernie supporter schtick. And this is what’s interesting about it. Using Goodman’s precedent, Trump voters can pretend to be Bernie supporters, as a means of hiding their shame. Now I’m sure most Trump voters aren’t ashamed, but already there’s this small sad tribe of Trump voters who can’t come out and be honest with the world. Are they, like the disappearing Nixon voters, the wave of the future?

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“I don’t see how that affects the average American and their taxpayer dollars,” Chaffetz said. “Just the fact that a staff person’s family is making money? It’s not enough.”

Politicians ignoring what the people want to line their and their family’s pockets affects us immensely.

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Jetrell Fo said:

The odd thing about what you say CatBus, is that it was Obama who changed the Intelligence rules, to allow “better and quicker” communication between numerous Global Intelligence agencies. It was put in to effect before he left office. Obama started tweaking these Intelligence rules as far back as 2011.

Early on, before the election, there were quiet rumblings about our Intelligence community, that didn’t get a lot of press. There seemed to be a narrative that some of our own Intelligence folks knew about Clinton’s “private” server and the pay for play, and that they may have hacked the DNC server to release or “leak” the info to try and get it out there. Since it has been shown that our Intelligence community does have tools to make it look as if others were doing they hacking, it would make a great smoke screen. A digital version of “wag the dog”, if you will. Make it look authentic, make it look like Russia.

IF, the “Russian Narative” investigation were already going on before Trump was sworn in it is probable that the “hacked info” evidence somehow made it to them. Trumps own people may not have even been aware of it and that may have set off or gave “cause” to their “surveillance” of some Trump Campaign team members because they already knew that specific information had been purposely leaked to the Russians because they recognized their own work. It may have then been given to the Democrats to take the advantage away from those that wanted Clinton fried.

President Obama was in support of better ties with Russia but maybe his intentions, our Governments intentions, were duplicitous to a specific agenda.

I was doing some googling on Evelyn Farkas and I found it interesting to learn this.

http://ibankcoin.com/zeropointnow/2017/03/29/smoking-gun-obama-defense-deputy-slips-up-on-live-tv-reveals-spying-on-trump-team-and-leaking-of-intel/

On a related note, Evelyn Farkas is also a senior fellow at the vehemently anti-Russia Atlantic Council, along with Crowdstrike founder Dimitri Alperovitch. The Atlantic Council is funded by the US State Department, NATO, Latvia, Lithuania, and Ukranian Oligarch Victor Pinchuk.

CrowdStrike, the Irvine, CA company partially funded by Google, was the only entity allowed to analyze the DNC servers in relation to claims of election hacking. Notably, CrowdStrike has recently been discredited – and was forced to retract evidence used in a botched report on Russia hacking Ukranian military equipment.

To sum up:

The White House surveilled the Trump campaign and then leaked information to anti-Trump allies in congress (on “The Hill”).

The Russian hacking claim hinges on a CrowdStrike Report from Dimitri Alperovitch.

Alperovitch was forced to retract statements in a report blaming Russia for hacking Ukrainian military equipment – a failed attempt to smear Putin.

Alperovitch, along with White House Leaker Evelyn Farkas and Ukrainian Oligarch Victor Pinchuk, are all senior fellows on the Atlantic Council – which is vehemently anti-Russia.

(As an aside – Joe Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, sits on the board of a Ukrainian gas company reportedly owned by Pinchuk)

Is it a stretch to suggest that the CrowdStrike report on the DNC hack was fabricated to pin the DNC hack on Russia?

http://www.voanews.com/a/cyber-firm-rewrites-part-disputed-russian-hacking-report/3781411.html

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^^^

Your comment on the article is kind of funny because it would seem you’re using the headline alone to base it on. Any of us here can cherry pick an article.

Start of the article says:

Rep. Jason Chaffetz (R-Utah) is dismissing concerns over whether President Trump would use his office to pad out his personal fortune.

“He’s already rich,” Chaffetz, the chairman of the House Oversight Committee, told The Atlantic in an interview published Friday. “He’s very rich. I don’t think that he ran for this office to line his pockets even more. I just don’t see it like that.”

Rep. Jason Chaffetz is not defending conflicts of interest and he doesn’t state that he is anywhere in that article.

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I remember back in the days when conspiracy theories made at least a casual attempt to explain the observable facts, albeit in a needlessly convoluted manner. Now I’ve got to go chase these kids off my lawn.

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Jetrell Fo said:

CatBus said:

Jetrell Fo said:

CatBus said:

CatBus said:

So, Pravda on the Checkout Line is pushing the story that Flynn was a Russian spy. While traditionally, nothing resembling the truth can ever come out of that place, for the past several months, people have had some success applying the principles of Kremlinology to the tabloid. i.e. you don’t ever learn the truth per se, but you learn who’s in, who’s out (as in out of favor, not necessarily out of a job), and who’s going to fall off a roof next week.

Aaaand now we know why Flynn is out of favor:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-flynn-offers-to-testify-in-exchange-for-immunity-1490912959

That said, this sort of thing has been a double-fake-out before, where they ask for immunity and then proceed to testify to nothing as serious as a jaywalking offense, and in the meantime, suck up all the media coverage a la Al Capone’s vault. Also worth noting nobody’s yet taken him up on his offer.

I haven’t seen anything myself that confirms or denies that Flynn is out of favor and asking for immunity in exchange for his testimony. There isn’t even any irrefutable proof that he was asked to resign due to wrongdoing of any kind. It could be entirely true, it might not be, but I wouldn’t even bet my mother’s retirement on this article’s substance or lack of.

😉

If you’re being sarcastic, I admit I missed it entirely, LOL. If not, I’m ok.

“Out of favor” was tongue-in-cheek Kremlinology-speak (and who doesn’t smile when saying “Out like Flynn”?). Asking for immunity… the link’s right there. Feel free to click. I know the Wall Street Journal’s not up there with Zerohedge in your book, but there are some who consider it a fairly reputable source.

Your sarcasm aside, this … “according to officials with knowledge of the matter.” … does not equal accurate. This scenario is being floated around so much with articles from the press that I fail to jump for joy every time I read a story with this so called confirmation included.

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/full-clapper-no-evidence-of-collusion-between-trump-and-russia-890509379597

If Flynn is actually seeking immunity for testimony, he may be wanting discuss crimes committed that helped start this “russian narrative” mess. There is an article in NPR that reports, as other outlets have, that Flynn would not be charged with wrongdoing because he did nothing wrong.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/15/515437291/intelligence-official-transcripts-of-flynns-calls-dont-show-criminal-wrongdoing

Sorry, try CNN, maybe they have proof. 😉

Okay:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/30/politics/michael-flynn-immunity-testimony/index.html

I’m sure that letter’s a Photoshop, though.

Also:
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/31/senate-intelligence-committee-turned-down-flynns-request-for-immunity-nbc.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/note-flynns-story/story?id=46486968

Even Fox News and Trump are on board:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/31/trump-backs-flynn-says-ex-adviser-should-seek-immunity-amid-witch-hunt.html

But regarding the substance of the news, I’m glad the Senate’s rejected the deal. This seems like an Oliver North deal to me.

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doubleofive said:

“I don’t see how that affects the average American and their taxpayer dollars,” Chaffetz said. “Just the fact that a staff person’s family is making money? It’s not enough.”

Politicians ignoring what the people want to line their and their family’s pockets affects us immensely.

That too, but I was referring to the idea that rich people never try to get richer.

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CatBus said:

Jetrell Fo said:

CatBus said:

Jetrell Fo said:

CatBus said:

CatBus said:

So, Pravda on the Checkout Line is pushing the story that Flynn was a Russian spy. While traditionally, nothing resembling the truth can ever come out of that place, for the past several months, people have had some success applying the principles of Kremlinology to the tabloid. i.e. you don’t ever learn the truth per se, but you learn who’s in, who’s out (as in out of favor, not necessarily out of a job), and who’s going to fall off a roof next week.

Aaaand now we know why Flynn is out of favor:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-flynn-offers-to-testify-in-exchange-for-immunity-1490912959

That said, this sort of thing has been a double-fake-out before, where they ask for immunity and then proceed to testify to nothing as serious as a jaywalking offense, and in the meantime, suck up all the media coverage a la Al Capone’s vault. Also worth noting nobody’s yet taken him up on his offer.

I haven’t seen anything myself that confirms or denies that Flynn is out of favor and asking for immunity in exchange for his testimony. There isn’t even any irrefutable proof that he was asked to resign due to wrongdoing of any kind. It could be entirely true, it might not be, but I wouldn’t even bet my mother’s retirement on this article’s substance or lack of.

😉

If you’re being sarcastic, I admit I missed it entirely, LOL. If not, I’m ok.

“Out of favor” was tongue-in-cheek Kremlinology-speak (and who doesn’t smile when saying “Out like Flynn”?). Asking for immunity… the link’s right there. Feel free to click. I know the Wall Street Journal’s not up there with Zerohedge in your book, but there are some who consider it a fairly reputable source.

Your sarcasm aside, this … “according to officials with knowledge of the matter.” … does not equal accurate. This scenario is being floated around so much with articles from the press that I fail to jump for joy every time I read a story with this so called confirmation included.

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/full-clapper-no-evidence-of-collusion-between-trump-and-russia-890509379597

If Flynn is actually seeking immunity for testimony, he may be wanting discuss crimes committed that helped start this “russian narrative” mess. There is an article in NPR that reports, as other outlets have, that Flynn would not be charged with wrongdoing because he did nothing wrong.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/15/515437291/intelligence-official-transcripts-of-flynns-calls-dont-show-criminal-wrongdoing

Sorry, try CNN, maybe they have proof. 😉

Okay:
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/30/politics/michael-flynn-immunity-testimony/index.html

I’m sure that letter’s a Photoshop, though.

Also:
http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/31/senate-intelligence-committee-turned-down-flynns-request-for-immunity-nbc.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/note-flynns-story/story?id=46486968

Even Fox News and Trump are on board:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/03/31/trump-backs-flynn-says-ex-adviser-should-seek-immunity-amid-witch-hunt.html

But regarding the substance of the news, I’m glad the Senate’s rejected the deal. This seems like an Oliver North deal to me.

How could or would an unnamed Congressional Aide either really know or confirm such details? If it’s true and legal they should be able to name the aide, no? The Trump tweet came today, after we started this discussion. I read your link. Thanks for posting it.

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TV’s Frink said:

doubleofive said:

“I don’t see how that affects the average American and their taxpayer dollars,” Chaffetz said. “Just the fact that a staff person’s family is making money? It’s not enough.”

Politicians ignoring what the people want to line their and their family’s pockets affects us immensely.

That too, but I was referring to the idea that rich people never try to get richer.

Rich people getting richer is literally their jobs.

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doubleofive said:

TV’s Frink said:

doubleofive said:

“I don’t see how that affects the average American and their taxpayer dollars,” Chaffetz said. “Just the fact that a staff person’s family is making money? It’s not enough.”

Politicians ignoring what the people want to line their and their family’s pockets affects us immensely.

That too, but I was referring to the idea that rich people never try to get richer.

Rich people getting richer is literally their jobs.

and getting poorer would be a poor persons job, if they had one! (zing!)