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Phantom Menace '99 - HD Theatrical Version by Chewielewis — Page 6

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I’d vote Cinema DTS as the primary. That seems to be more or less the “standard” for these types of projects lately (like with Schorman’s theatrical ROTS).

a trolling bantha

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I agree, and as this is a theatrical preservation, I think the cinema DTS makes more sense. 😃

What can you get a Wookiee for (Life Day) Christmas when he already owns a comb?

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Cinema should be default and any other audio tracks after that.

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AFAIK, both are theatrical mixes. DTS was “remuxed” in 5.1 by Schorman directly from the theatrical DTS CD-ROM, while LD Dolby 6.1 was directly taken from the theatrical Dolby track.

So IMHO, both deserve the name of “cinema”, and Chewie’s question (which audio will be defaut) is a difficult one…

BTW, does someone know if the theatrical SDDS track can be found somewhere ?

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The DTS would have less compression, if I’m not mistaken. And again, to me it’s preferable for consistency with Schorman’s theatrical ROTS and the fact that pretty much every theatrical restoration for which cinema DTS is available uses that track as the primary.

SDDS would be interesting. I honestly don’t know if that one’s floating around anywhere, or if the community has a way of utilizing such a track if it were.

a trolling bantha

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ChainsawAsh said:

The DTS would have less compression, if I’m not mistaken.

Yes and no. The theatrical DTS algorithm (APT X100) has nothing to do with the home DTS. It is actually compressed at 882 kbps with 4:1 ratio, on 5.0 tracks (the LFE is encoded with the surround channels).

On the other hand, the Laserdisc Dolby-AC3 is encoded at 384 kbps, but with a totally different algorithm than DTS APT-X100, and real 5.1 tracks (or 6.1, if I’m not mistaken, on the Laserdisc of TPM).

So basically, it is difficult to compare both formats.

ChainsawAsh said:

And again, to me it’s preferable for consistency with Schorman’s theatrical ROTS and the fact that pretty much every theatrical restoration for which cinema DTS is available uses that track as the primary.

I agree, I was just talking about the argument “DTS is the original cinema format”. But yes, it seems more logical and consistent with other projects to make DTS the default track.

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Ah, fair enough. Is the AC3 from the LD the same 1999 theatrical mix, or is it a home video “near-field” mix?

At either rate, I’d absolutely include both, with the DTS mix as track 1 and the AC3 mix as track 2. Maybe also include the 2.0 PCM as track 3?

a trolling bantha

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ChainsawAsh said:

Ah, fair enough. Is the AC3 from the LD the same 1999 theatrical mix, or is it a home video “near-field” mix?

I think that the AC3 from the LD is exactly the theatrical Dolby mix and not a nearfield mix. Chewie, do you have other information about it?

ChainsawAsh said:

At either rate, I’d absolutely include both, with the DTS mix as track 1 and the AC3 mix as track 2. Maybe also include the 2.0 PCM as track 3?

That would be the best, IMHO.

PS: I can also provide the CDV 2.0 mix, but I think that it is the same as the VHS one, which is probably the same as the LD.

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would comparing spectral analyses of each channel from the cinema DTS track to the corresponding channel in the laserdisc AC-3 track be helpful to determining which ultimately has more information?

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ZigZig said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Ah, fair enough. Is the AC3 from the LD the same 1999 theatrical mix, or is it a home video “near-field” mix?

I think that the AC3 from the LD is exactly the theatrical Dolby mix and not a nearfield mix. Chewie, do you have other information about it?

All I can say is when I had both of them lined up in Premiere I could see differences in Dynamic range by comparing waveforms. It looked to me like the LD audio could have been tweaked slightly for Home viewing which would make sense to me.

Or there could have been differences in the Dolby mix and the AC3 mix on the negative itself. I’m not sure.

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There is a difference between DTS dynamics and AC3 dynamics, for sure.
But the question is: is there a difference between theatrical AC3 and laserdisc AC3?

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From what I’ve read on other threads around this forum there absolutely is a difference between the theatrical DTS discs and any mix present on home media.

Unless you watch movies in a home theater the size of a small airplane hangar…

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dahmage said:

From what I’ve read on other threads around this forum there absolutely is a difference between the theatrical DTS discs and any mix present on home media.

Yes, everybody agrees (I guess). But is there a difference between the theatrical AC3 and the laserdisc AC3?

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No-one who does not have a print of the film has access to the theatrical AC3, so that’s a tough question to answer.

If I had some gum, I’d chew a hole into the sun…

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You’re right, but we still have some clues: TPM is the first film released in Dolby Digital Surround EX in theaters (this audio format was specially created for TPM).
The TPM Laserdisc is also the first LD to feature a Dolby Digital Surround EX track.
So I guess that we can reasonably think that the LD mix was not redone (it is a particular format, on a LD that was released only in Japan, with few copies, and we already knew that the LD format was at the end of its life, so why would Lucasfilm have lost time and money to redo a mix in in such special circumstances ?).

So we can not be 100% sure, you’ re right, but if I had to bet, I’d bet that the LD contains the theatrical audio AC3 track.

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Which is why I think it’s a good idea to include both! 😃

And again, I’d love for the 2.0 PCM to be included as well if it’s available and synced.

a trolling bantha

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Just found this thread, and I am super excited to see this! 😃

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So close to Christmas now. I was hoping to see the completed release by year’s end. Any chance I could get a Resilio key for just the preview? In the meantime, Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays to you all!

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Any update on this?

I Don’t Even Like Pickles?

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Pickle2503 said:

Any update on this?

I asked in the group pm a few weeks back and no response. I’m assuming Chewie is either tweaking some things or is busy

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Mad busy

Also all you previewers were terrible. All but one of you missed a really big grading error.

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Chewielewis said:
Also all you previewers were terrible. All but one of you missed a really big grading error.

Glad you appreciated people taking the time to help…

Jedit: Also I hope you realize that not everyone is gonna catch something just be happy it got caught at all.

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Sorry, read with a lighter tone. Thanks to everyone who took time to watch.