Paternal Figures In Star Wars

Author: Easterhay
Date: 12-Nov-2014, 12:36 PM

Author: Easterhay
Time: 12-Nov-2014 12:36 PM
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Whilst watching The Empire Strikes Back recently, it occurred to me how few fathers are actually featured in the saga. Given George Lucas’s apparently difficult relationship with his own father, could it be that George is working through these issues through his art? It’s not unknown for an artist to use their work as therapy, so I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find that this is more than mere coincidence.

Of course, there is a surfeit of father figures in the films – Luke has both Uncle Owen and Obi-wan to look up to and Qui-gon serves as a paternal substitute for both Obi-wan and Anakin – and they all get killed off. The only real fathers that I can think of are pretty lousy. You’ve got Anakin, obviously, a man with many flaws and has to be saved from himself by his son. And then you’ve got Owen’s father who, let’s face it, is pretty hopeless, being unable to save his wife and leaving her to certain death while his injuries heal.

Given the trend for recurring motifs in the films, it remains to be seen if the writers of the new film will do anything with the archetype of the failed father or if we actually see a successful father appear in the story. Will Han Solo be the one to buck the trend (if, indeed, the new film follows the premise of the EU and gives him children)?

That's some bad hat, Harry

Author: TV's Frink
Time: 12-Nov-2014 1:01 PM
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You forgot Gary Kurtz.

Author: Anchorhead
Time: 12-Nov-2014 1:47 PM (Edited)
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I think you're correct that the father\son tension was a big issue for him. Particularly when he was a younger film maker. He doesn't come across as terribly deep in interviews, so his influences aren't too hard to see. Below is an article from a few years ago addressing the same issue.

That said; A much older and mellowed Lucas does seem to come at it from the other side in Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull and speak from the father's point of view. Indy is a somewhat supportive father to a rebellious child.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2008-05-20-lucas-father-issues_N.htm

Speaking of issues working their way into film; He's had another story arc that has shown up in two of his films that I've often wondered about, mainly because they both involve main characters. American Graffiti and Raiders Of The Lost Ark both have male\female relationships which border on inappropriate, age-wise.

Milner and Carol, after balking at having to spend time together, eventually start to enjoy each other and become close. Nothing inappropriate happens or is even hinted at, but it's very much an adult\child relationship.

Indy and Marion clearly had a past that was bordering on inappropriate. Marion mentions it directly; "I was a child. It was wrong and you knew it".

Because he was instrumental in bringing those four characters to the screen, I've often wondered if there was an issue being worked through.

For the record, Milner and Carol are my favorite part of the film. These aren't criticisms, just observations.

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Author: DuracellEnergizer
Time: 12-Nov-2014 7:57 PM (Edited)
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TV's Frink said:

You forgot Gary Kurtz.

But he's a mother, remember.

Author: CatBus
Time: 12-Nov-2014 8:57 PM
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DuracellEnergizer said:

TV's Frink said:

You forgot Gary Kurtz.

He's a bad mother--

Shut yo' mouth.

Author: Baronlando
Time: 12-Nov-2014 9:22 PM
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To me it feels like the Francis Coppola/flashy older brother is more dominant than the father angle in Lucas stories (Milner, Han, Madmartigan, even QuiGon Jinn with Obiwan). Or maybe it just seems that way compared to Spielberg and his recurring parental issues.

Author: DominicCobb
Time: 12-Nov-2014 9:56 PM
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Baronlando said:

To me it feels like the Francis Coppola/flashy older brother is more dominant than the father angle in Lucas stories (Milner, Han, Madmartigan, even QuiGon Jinn with Obiwan). Or maybe it just seems that way compared to Spielberg and his recurring parental issues.

You're probably right. Obi-Wan and Anakin is a good example. Even Lucas wasn't sure if he wanted to do a paternal or fraternal thing there.

Anakin in AOTC: "He's like my father."

Obi-Wan in ROTS: "You were my brother, Anakin."

Obviously there's stuff in between the two films that would theoretically change how they perceive each other, but these themes and their relationship were never fully developed.

Author: TV's Frink
Time: 12-Nov-2014 10:48 PM
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DuracellEnergizer said:

TV's Frink said:

You forgot Gary Kurtz.

But he's a mother, remember.

The thread title cares not for your arbitrary labels.

Author: Easterhay
Time: 13-Nov-2014 5:33 AM
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Anchorhead said:

Indy and Marion clearly had a past that was bordering on inappropriate. Marion mentions it directly; "I was a child. It was wrong and you knew it".

I've never taken that so literally. When she says she was a child, I've always felt she meant she was young but not school-age young. Same with Vader referring to Luke as "just a boy" even though he was in his twenties by that point.

I think Lucas is deep, but just not as ebullient as some directors.

That's some bad hat, Harry

Author: Bingowings
Time: 13-Nov-2014 6:27 PM (Edited)
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That's how I read it when I watched the film at the time of release but George seems to have had other ideas.

Here it states he intended her to be 11 (he slowly ramps it up to 15) when Indy had the affair with her (as if little Anakin and Teen Padme weren't odd enough) :

http://mysterymanonfilm.blogspot.co.uk/2009/03/raiders-story-conference.html

Author: ATMachine
Time: 24-Feb-2015 5:30 AM (Edited)
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Yeah, Marion was quite clearly jailbait when she first hooked up with Indy.

According to the Raiders script, she's 25 during the film itself, and the affair was ten years beforehand. So she was 15.

However, the later chronology in stuff like the Ultimate Guide (by the way, is it still canon, what with all the SW universe shenanigans?) fudges Marion's age at the time.

She's bumped up to age 17, in an effort to wipe away this unpalatable fact as much as possible--while remaining unnoticed to the casual observer. GL really is devious when it comes to subtle alterations to his work.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

Author: cantankerous
Time: 2-Mar-2015 9:50 AM
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ATMachine said:

Yeah, Marion was quite clearly jailbait when she first hooked up with Indy.

According to the Raiders script, she's 25 during the film itself, and the affair was ten years beforehand. So she was 15.

However, the later chronology in stuff like the Ultimate Guide (by the way, is it still canon, what with all the SW universe shenanigans?) fudges Marion's age at the time.

She's bumped up to age 17, in an effort to wipe away this unpalatable fact as much as possible--while remaining unnoticed to the casual observer. GL really is devious when it comes to subtle alterations to his work.

Wow, I had no idea.

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