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PROMETHEUS was (Alien 0?) NOW NO LONGER SPOILER FREE. — Page 19

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DominicCobb said:

I myself was pleasantly surprised to learn that the elephant thing was merely a mask that was worn by one of our giant, white creators. Now I'm starting to sound sarcastic. But I'm really not.

Same here. I thought it was a very interesting little twist.

DuracellEnergizer said:

I never imagined the Space Jockeys to be anything other than what they were shown to be in Alien. I'll bet, back in the day, that Scott didn't either.

I'm guessing Scott didn't give it too much thought at the time. But so what? is that supposed to be a strike against either film?

Ray’s Lounge
Biggs in ANH edit idea
ROTJ opening edit idea

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Sounds like this film is to the "Alien" franchise what "The Heretic" was to "The Exorcist" franchise.  *frown*

“First feel fear, then get angry. Then go with your life into the fight.” - Bill Mollison

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FanFiltration said:

Sounds like this film is to the "Alien" franchise what "The Heretic" was to "The Exorcist" franchise.  *frown*

The Exorcist isn't really a franchise though someone should tell Morgan Creek.

It's three loosely connected books adapted into films (The Exorcist, The Ninth Configuration and Exorcist III)and three films about Father Merrin which make no sense at all and actively contradict each other, the original novel and film (Exorcist the Beginning, Dominion, The Heretic).

If Prometheus resembles any Exorcist film it will have to be Exorcist III.

That started off as a lose tangental sequel to The Exorcist. It was assembled into a film which the few who saw it loved and then it was sent back to the workshop because it was deemed by Morgan Creek to be too tangental. They insisted on an exorcism scene and gore which meant filming a new character and parachuting him into the existing footage.

But even in it's current form Exorcist III is still a better movie than Prometheus.

Prometheus is much more visually interesting and coherent than any of the two and a half contradictory Exorcist prequels though.

RE: The traditional Jockey being a suit I need to root around in my magazine chest (full of Starlog, Starburst, Fangoria etc not ammunition... your honour) I pretty sure Scott has been speculating along those lines for a very long time.

Remember the dog/ox alien in Alien 3, Scott was talking about the alien taking on the shape of it's host back in 1978.

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From reddit - David's role in the movie.

“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”

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Talking about touching things, how does one get a job like this :

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ray_afraid said:



DuracellEnergizer said:

I never imagined the Space Jockeys to be anything other than what they were shown to be in Alien. I'll bet, back in the day, that Scott didn't either.


I'm guessing Scott didn't give it too much thought at the time. But so what? is that supposed to be a strike against either film?


Not necessarily - I haven't seen Prometheus, so I can't say anything for certain about it - but making the Space Jockeys some generic Star Trek race doesn't seem very inspired to me.

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Them being humans in a costume is a minor disappointment for me.  If they had done something mindblowing with the concept I wouldn't mind the retcon, but they didn't.

Ultimately, making the Space Jockey into man's creator makes the Alien universe smaller.

I'm not even completely sure if Engineers = Space Jockey.  The Space Jockey looked like it was 20 feet tall and the Engineer looked half that, at most.

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My friend at work is in love with this movie, so he was a little miffed when I told him I had very mixed feelings on it. I didn't want to completely unload on him, but he asked for an example- so I gave him one.

I say- "If you're running away from a giant frisbee that's rolling toward you... Which way do you run? If you see your friend trip and fall, and all she has to do is roll to the side, don't you think you could run to the side to get away from it?"

He says, "No, because it's in space."

"In space?" I say.

"Yes" He says. "In space."

Then the lights dim and I say, "Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnn SSSSSSSSSSSSSSPPPPPPPPPPAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCEEEEEEE."

The End.

Can't argue with that. It isin space.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Thing is....it wasn't a frizbee....it was a tubular vessel about 50ft diameter, don't think you could just step to one side

 

J

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Jaitea said:


Thing is....it wasn't a frizbee....it was a tubular vessel about 50ft diameter, don't think you could just step to one side

 

J


But the one girl rolled about 2 feet to one side and got away from it!

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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I was thinking how it would have made more sense to have the android be the nurse and be a sexy nurse and have Vickers mature with a craggy female John Hurt face and embittered at her dirty old dad.

This could have been achieved by swapping this actress :

with this one 

and combine the nurse character with David.

But then it remind me of :

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evan1975 said:


I'm not even completely sure if Engineers = Space Jockey.  The Space Jockey looked like it was 20 feet tall and the Engineer looked half that, at most.


I've read some fan theories out there which run with that idea. One is that the Engineers are emissaries of the Space Jockeys or something like that, and that their Space Jockeyesque suits are some form of bioengineered outfit that allows them to interface with Jockey technology.

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The Thing prequel is not that bad.

It too was a film that was screwed up by twitchy suits.

The character building was cut, the lovely practical effects were scribbled on with CGI and the ending was buggered up but at it's core is a much better film than Prometheus and much more respectful to the original film than Prometheus was to Alien.

 

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DuracellEnergizer said:

evan1975 said:


I'm not even completely sure if Engineers = Space Jockey.  The Space Jockey looked like it was 20 feet tall and the Engineer looked half that, at most.

I've read some fan theories out there which run with that idea. One is that the Engineers are emissaries of the Space Jockeys or something like that, and that their Space Jockeyesque suits are some form of bioengineered outfit that allows them to interface with Jockey technology.


But the size difference remains. The chair is also smaller than the one in Alien.

You can come up with whatever Fansplanations you want... the fact is- it just doesn't match and it doesn't matter to the people who made it as much as the people who watch it want it to.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Bingowings said:

The Thing prequel is not that bad.

It too was a film that was screwed up by twitchy suits.

The character building was cut, the lovely practical effects were scribbled on with CGI and the ending was buggered up but at it's core is a much better film than Prometheus and much more respectful to the original film than Prometheus was to Alien.

The Thing prequel was really screwed up. Though it does seem like it could be salvaged easily. Reading about the original version of the film before negative test screenings, it sounds much better. Also, the less bad CGI the better, considering that they already had practical effects set up. The original ending could have been cool sans the "tetris" board. I hope a Director's Cut is released one day.

DuracellEnergizer said:


One is that the Engineers are emissaries of the Space Jockeys or something like that, and that their Space Jockeyesque suits are some form of bioengineered outfit that allows them to interface with Jockey technology.

 

That'd be a mildly interesting twist for Prometheus 2... though it kinda elevates the Space Jockeys ridiculously. With that in mind, they'd be the seeming makers of our makers, making humans pretty irrelevant, which begs the question what makes us fit for termination?...

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xhonzi said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

evan1975 said:


I'm not even completely sure if Engineers = Space Jockey.  The Space Jockey looked like it was 20 feet tall and the Engineer looked half that, at most.
I've read some fan theories out there which run with that idea. One is that the Engineers are emissaries of the Space Jockeys or something like that, and that their Space Jockeyesque suits are some form of bioengineered outfit that allows them to interface with Jockey technology.

But the size difference remains. The chair is also smaller than the one in Alien.

You can come up with whatever Fansplanations you want... the fact is- it just doesn't match and it doesn't matter to the people who made it as much as the people who watch it want it to.


You're missing the point of the theory. The theory posits that the Space Jockey in Alien would be a real Space Jockey, ie. what you see is what you get - that is the creature itself, not an external suit - while the Engineers in Prometheus are the "men in suits", the emissaries, servants, slaves, etc. of the true Space Jockies. They, being two different species, wouldn't be the same size for that very reason - they are not one and the same.

FWIW, I didn't come up with this theory and I don't really subscribe to it; I, frankly, like to take Alien on its own, and pretend none of the sequels or spinoffs - including Prometheus - ever happened. I'm just mentioning the theory for the sake of anyone interested in the possibility.

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evan1975 said:

Them being humans in a costume is a minor disappointment for me.  If they had done something mindblowing with the concept I wouldn't mind the retcon, but they didn't.

Ultimately, making the Space Jockey into man's creator makes the Alien universe smaller.

I'm not even completely sure if Engineers = Space Jockey.  The Space Jockey looked like it was 20 feet tall and the Engineer looked half that, at most.

I'm guessing they want the Space Jockey from Alien to be some kind of "head engineer". That could explain the size difference. But, I think it would have been better to distinguish the concept of Engineers from the visuals of the SJ.

“Grow up. These are my Disney's movies, not yours.”

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Saw this about a week ago. Well what a complete mess it is, pointless opening scene. It should have started straight on board the Prometheus, then  rips off just about every classic sci-fi movie I can think of, then descends into nothing more than a creepy crawlie B movie in the last half hour or so. If this is Scott's idea of good sci-fi I'm praying he stays away from Bladerunner!!

2.5 out of 5

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eros said:

pointless opening scene.

Huh? How could it be a pointless scene to show how the engineers sacrifice themselves to create life on other planets, using the black ooze that is shown later in the film? Do you know the myth that inspired the film's title? I mean, I thought the film was pretty bad, but I don't get people who make lazy criticisms like this without backing their opinion up. Explain WHY it was a pointless scene.

Anyone who want a GOOD critique of the film that explains what's wrong with it from someone who knows what he's talking about, check out Gavin Rothery's blog (VFX supervisor of MOON): http://www.gavinrothery.com/my-blog/2012/6/11/so-what-was-wrong-with-prometheus.html

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Regardless of wether it's pointless or not, the opening scene is one of the few jaw dropping beautiful and unique moments in the film.

If it was a student short film it would have won tonnes of awards.

Nah.

If you were to lose something from the beginning you could trim the Isle Of Skye bit (start with an enigma and cut straight to space) but as I said earlier that bit doesn't break the mood like Guy-Guy Pearce's truly pointless hologram in a halloween mask scene.

Cut the whole briefing and the whole crew suddenly gain an extra point in credibility.

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Bingowings said:

Regardless of wether it's pointless or not, the opening scene is one of the few jaw dropping beautiful and unique moments in the film.

Agreed. How anyone could think that scene is pointless is beyond me. It's not only central to understanding the Engineer's otherwise ridiculously vague purpose, but it's gorgeous and haunting. One of the most beautiful and surreal sequences Scott has ever filmed.

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Not running with Vincent Ward's unique and astonishing idea was one in a long line of cock-ups by Brandywine.

That the extended cut of Alien 3 is as good as it is (with all it's faults) is nothing short of a miracle.

I think the runaway success of Aliens caused corporate jitters making another successful film practically impossible.

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asterisk8 said:

Anyone who want a GOOD critique of the film that explains what's wrong with it from someone who knows what he's talking about, check out Gavin Rothery's blog (VFX supervisor of MOON): http://www.gavinrothery.com/my-blog/2012/6/11/so-what-was-wrong-with-prometheus.html

That is a really good critique.  I hadn't noticed the "almost everybody is speaking in another voice/accent than their own" thing.  I personally believe that actors do their best acting in their own accents; some actors seem to be concentrating more on getting the accent right than getting across the best performance.