A few issues that the Kenobi series may have upon the Original Trilogy films, events surrounding them, or other Star Wars releases. Along with some in-series issues too. With accompanying images, screenshots and memes.
I did originally post this in the Kenobi thread, but thought it useful to have its own thread, so it is easier to find, now the Kenobi series has finished. I’ll add any new updates, additions or revisions in here (but not in the original post in the Kenobi thread).
Not everyone will agree with some of the topics listed below, or the descriptions of these issues, and that is okay. Everyone’s mileage may vary. For some fans, the topics listed in here may not even be considered issues, inconsistencies or stretches.
I’m not a Star Wars fan who hates anything outside of the Original Trilogy, or auto-dislikes Disney Star Wars. For me, some of it has been great, some mediocre, and some of it underwhelming or poor. Many of us have been looking forward to this series for a long time; a much anticipated story, one that bridges the PT and OT, and Ewan McGregor returning to do justice to Alec Guinness’ iconic role. I did enjoy the series for the most part, but like a number of others, there were some noticeable issues.
Nearly 20 years we thought, nearly two decades, a generation. Now instead only 8-9 years. Not such a long time, now.
The emphasis on “a long time” in his line of dialogue is also noteworthy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=031vKBPk5eA
It is a fair point highlighted by Vader. If Kenobi survived 10 years of the Jedi Purges, with the Empire and Vader looking for him, then Kenobi could have easily survived 8/9 years after the their last encounter, and Vader has also stopped looking for him since their last meeting, upon orders from Emperor given in episode 6 of Kenobi.
If Vader can stop a ship leaving a port or taking off, and pull it to the floor like he did in the Kenobi series, then he would also be able to repeat this in later Star Wars releases too? On the Tantive or Falcon, maybe?
Probably the largest problem in the series is the ever increasing bond between Obi-Wan and Leia. As others here have stated (much of this is from adywan, but not his exact words): “the more they progress with this bond between them, the more she comes across as a heartless bitch in Star Wars ANH. Kenobi risked everything for her, and they both developed this close bond. But she doesn’t even react when seeing him again just before he lets himself be struck down by Vader in ANH. Yet Luke, who has known him for 5 minutes, reacts the opposite way? In the scenes on the Falcon after they escape the Death Star too. Wow. This now calls her character into question. It should never have been Leia in this Kenobi story. There is also no peril in the story because we know who must live to appear in later stories.”
In this instance in ROTJ, it also doesn’t make Obi-Wan look good. Given their bond, him knowing exactly who Leia is, her force sensitivity, and many other skills, attributes and abilities he listed about her that she had inherited from her parents in the last episode of the series, even more so.
Vader saying “You didn’t kill Anakin Skywalker… I did”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAWBeA9LTRE
To me this dialogue renders Obi-Wan in ROTJ telling Luke his “from a certain point of view” story about Vader murdering his father being true as now being quite strange. These words comes from Vader’s own mouth, so it was NOT a deception, or anywhere near a big a stretch as previously, or “from a certain point of view” on Kenobi’s part, in Return Of The Jedi.
Luke: “Why didn’t you tell me? You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father!”
Obi-Wan: “Your father was seduced by the dark side of the force. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man that was your father was destroyed. So what I told you was true… from a certain point of view.”
Once again Obi-Wan was in a situation where he has Vader beaten and at his mercy, he can end the suffering of many others to come… and yet Kenobi just lets him walk away.
Knowing what has occurred in the galaxy since he left Anakin defeated on Mustafar last time, knowing what Vader has done to innocent people in the years since (not just the men, but the women and children too), and something he has seen for himself first hand on Maputo, when Vader killed the civilians in the street to goad Obi-Wan into action. That Vader would go on to murder, destroy, oppress, over and over again, and that no-one else has been, or is likely to, be able to stop him.
This really is a poor decision, and writing, to have Kenobi 10 years on in a situation where he has Vader, a “master of evil”, beaten again, and yet instead simply walks away, for a second time.
Instead, years later in ROTJ, Obi-Wan will instead persuade Luke to go and kill Vader, something he did not do himself on two prior occasions now, at the cost of countless lives. When Luke refuses this in ROTJ and says “I can’t kill my own father”, Obi-Wan responds with “then the Emperor has already won”.
On the scene: it was basically a homage, or repeat, to what had previously been done years ago in the Rebels animated series:-
https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Kenobi-Movie-Show-Spoilers/id/56268/page/48#1489887 - jedi_bendu’s post on this issue
There are also many “similarities”, homages, “they rhyme”, or rip-offs, with Jedi: Fallen Order video game and episode 4, here:-
https://screenrant.com/obi-wan-kenobi-episode-4-jedi-fallen-order
Vader vs Kenobi duel continued.
There is also an issue of Kenobi’s strength with the Force during the time period of exile on Tatooine, to this era in the series, through to their duel in Star Wars: ANH.
These past 10 years Obi-Wan has cut himself off from the Force and his “force powers” have understandably become weakened. They have somewhat returned to Kenobi during this series, but were not enough to beat Vader. Not enough until he calls on the Force using his will to protect the Skywalker twins (with images of Luke & Leia running through his mind). Kenobi is then able to hand out a comprehensive beat down on Vader.
Yet 8-9 later Vader will taunt Kenobi when they meet again on the Death Star: “Your powers are weak, old man”. This is at the start of the duel and well before Obi-Wan lets Vader strike him down. However, this time around Obi-Wan hasn’t cut himself off from the Force for the past 8-9 years. He has been communing with Qui-Gon and Yoda, continuing the training that Yoda had for him now that he can converse with Qui-Gon again. Probably along with other practicing of Force abilities during this time too. So why are Kenobi’s powers now so weak?
A 3 minute clip of the lightsaber fight on the Death Star: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2rGRQ4MPbw
Also, Vader should now be far more wary and mindful during their duel in Star Wars: ANH. Yes, Vader had easily bested Obi-Wan on Jabiim. Vader had also looked to have easily beaten Obi-Wan when Kenobi’s force powers were “weak” in their last duel, up to where Vader buries him the under rocks. Yet Obi-Wan then absolutely gave this “master of evil” a comprehensive hands-down beating and could have easily ended Vader there and then. So on the Death Star, surely Vader should be a little concerned this fight is starting to look like a repeat of their previous duel, a duel he lost so badly, he was fortunate to escape with his life?
We obviously know this cannot happen, but it is concerning the writers of this Kenobi series seemingly didn’t think this through, or maybe thought it was somehow "viable within canon to play that card?“.
I did originally think Obi-Wan telling young Leia their connection must be kept a secret, to protect both of them from danger, was a good bypass or excuse for the “hologram message issue” from Leia in the Original Trilogy. But on further thought, this doesn’t make sense given the gravity of the situation Leia finds herself in when making and sending the message to Obi-Wan in the OT.
"General Kenobi. Years ago, you served my father in the Clone Wars; now he begs you to help him in his struggle against the Empire. I regret that I am unable to present my father’s request to you in person; but my ship has fallen under attack and I’m afraid my mission to Alderaan has failed. I’ve placed information vital to the survival of the Rebellion into the memory systems of this R2 unit. My father will know how to retrieve it. You must see this droid safely delivered to him on Alderaan. This is our most desperate hour. Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi; you’re my only hope".
All seems lost for Leia in this moment, and given what the hologram message says, continuing to pretend that she has no past affiliation or connection with Kenobi, will certainly not protect her or him in this situation. So creating the hologram message as if she has not met or knows of Kenobi, except through what her father told her, still makes no sense.
The Inquisitors know about this link and surely would have followed it up. At least they or the Empire would have been keeping Bail Organa under close watch, his meetings with others, and also his whereabouts. Maybe even being aware of Bail sneaking off to visit Tatooine in person. The same would also likely apply to Leia, given her being promptly rescued twice by Obi-Wan Kenobi, once from Imperial incarceration and questioning, and also her time spent on the run with other wanted force sensitive fugitives.
Obi-Wan is no longer “living in hiding” when on this mission to rescue Leia, and is inconsistent with Bail’s conversation with Mon Mothma in the Rogue One film:
Mon Mothma: “Despite what the others say, war is inevitable.”
Bail Organa: “Yes, I agree. I must return to Alderaan to inform my people that there will be no peace. We will need every advantage.”
Mon Mothma: “Your friend… the Jedi.”
Bail Organa: “He served me well during the Clone Wars and has lived in hiding since the Emperor’s purge. Yes, I will send for him.”
a 30 second video of the above scene from Rogue One: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqb1oj4sEEM
Why did Obi-Wan even disconnect from the force and bury the lightsabers if he’s supposed to be watching over and protecting Luke? With the aim of training him when the time comes (we even see him ask Uncle Owen about this in episode 1). How did he expect to be able to do that without his weapons, buried somewhere out in the desert, or cutting himself off from the Force?
At the end of episode 2 Reva reveals to Kenobi that Anakin Skywalker is alive, with some great acting by Ewan in reaction to this. However, how is Reva aware that Kenobi doesn’t know Anakin is alive?
It appears she doesn’t know, and this was in the story to end the episode on a sort of dramatic high? It was some great acting.
These stormtroopers are out on duty actively looking for a Jedi. They are sitting alongside and opposite one of the most famous Jedi generals in the Clone Wars. Someone the Empire has been searching for, for 10 years. Yet they don’t seem to have a picture, or description, of the Jedi they are actually looking for?
Why does Vader stand there doing nothing after the Tala shoots and ignites a new fire to somehow stop Vader torturing Kenobi? Then Vader simply waits and watches for the slow moving loader droid to come rescue Kenobi and then slowly carry him off to safety?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53thKFyHFLc
Vader has literally ignited and extinguished a fire just seconds before. He also lifted Kenobi into the air, holding him there, and then also uses the force to pull him through the fire to make him suffer. Why did Vader just stop and stand there after Tala ignited the fire? He doesn’t attempt to walk around the fire, or force pull Kenobi through the fire, or force lift him over the fire to him, or force pull the droid to him.
This inactivity wasn’t also to wait and use Kenobi to trace the Path or Underground after Tala fires upon them and gives away her presence, as we see Vader is pissed and blames Reva for letting Kenobi escape in the next episode. “Kenobi is everything”, and nothing else matters to him, as Vader mentions. Twice. Vader also demonstrates this again in the last episode.
Why is Reva interrogating Leia like she’s a Rebel spy and has a deep knowledge about the Rebellion or Path, when she’s just a 10 year old? Does she seriously expect Leia to have this knowledge? Reva is even the one who arranged Leia’s kidnapping, so she knows Leia hasn’t been with them for very long if at all.
Reva expects to get answers from this? But not from the Rebel pilot she killed for no reason at the end of the tunnel on Mapuzo to capture Leia? Surely keeping him alive too, for his working knowledge would be even more valuable?
A side issue: During the interrogation, how is it that none of the Inquisitors sense that Leia is force sensitive? Isn’t it their job is to track and hunt down force sensitive people? Isn’t Leia now on some Imperial list of people to take a closer look at, or even on an Imperial list of people with force sensitivity?
Reva has placed a tracker in Leia’s Lola droid, during Leia’s interrogation of the captured Leia on the Inquisitor’s fortress. At this time Reva doesn’t know Kenobi is on the base, or that anyone else like Tala is going to come rescue Leia. Yet Reva is also the person who later actively stops Kenobi, Leia and Tala from escaping in the hangar, almost killing them. This was also before the two TR47s fly up the base and into the hangar undetected to rescue them.
So was the tracking thing just a backup plan? It seems nobody else in the Inquisitor base knew about this either.
A side issue: Who turned off the radar at the highly secure Inquisitor fortress so the two TR47s could approach undetected?
Reva waits for Vader to nearly kill her by choking, before muttering she has planted a tracker on Kenobi’s group. Vader, obviously angry and pissed off at the time could have just easily choked her or snapped her neck before she could let him know her “plan”. Vader is well known to be quick and impulsive, so why does Reva wait so long before explaining herself?
“I know we said no communication… but your silence worries me. If he’s found you, if he’s learned of the children… If I don’t hear from you soon, I’ll head to Tatooine. Owen will need help with the boy. I pray you’re safe, Obi-Wan. Both of you."
Bail proceeds to list every detail of their mission, including Owen’s in relation to “the boy.” This message could obviously be catastrophic if it were to end up in the wrong hands, which, of course, it does.
This really is quite poorly written and executed in how the message came about. It also makes Bail look incompetent and an idiot, something of which he is clearly not. Also for Obi-Wan too, as why not delete this potentially damaging message after he has seen it?
The siege of the Rebel base on Jabiim, with some noticeably odd choices by the writers.
While the Rebels are readying themselves to get all the force-sensitives and their families off the planet, Vader orders Reva to lock down the Rebel facility. Reva states that if they seal them in now the Rebels “could hold out for days”, but Vader is just focused on trapping and confronting Kenobi. So, Reva has the compromised Lola droid close and lock the huge overhead docking bay doors of the Rebel’s hidden base, so that the Rebels are now all trapped there, unable to escape on their transport, with the Empire soon to arrive.
The Rebels barricade themselves in, securing the side doors and other entrances. Reva then arrives on the planet with stormtroopers to break into the locked-down base, but rather than have the Lola droid just open the doors back up for them, they set up shop outside with a heavy-gun starting to fire on the side-door. This is first of some strange choices by the writers for this siege.
An hour later the Imperials are still firing on the side-door, and haven’t made much progress at smashing through it all. Reva then has a conversation with Obi-Wan, letting him know her complete backstory and that all this long-term planning is for the chance to kill Vader. Yet she then refuses Kenobi’s offer of help to take Vader down, from the one person who has previously defeated Vader. Her plan of later sneaking up behind Vader and trying to stab him in the back is apparently far better than teaming up with Kenobi to improve their chances of taking him down. The writer’s decision here really doesn’t make much sense.
And then Reva simply opens the side-door herself by putting her lightsaber through the welded door beam, the door opens, and the Empire can now enter the Rebel base.
Why not simply open the door with her lightsaber in the first place? Had Reva forgot about the cutting ability of lightsabers until that point in the story? I suppose this is a question the writers don’t want people to think about too much.
Lightsabers are very good for cutting through things. As seen above they can heat up and burn through metal very quickly too. Reva can count herself lucky when Vader stabbed her with her own lightsaber that he didn’t leave it in her so it didn’t start burning through her. Except Vader did actually do just that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFMglffyPRU
Rokun tells Obi-Wan they can’t take Leia to Alderaan right now because they have to get these force sensitives kids and their families off the Jabiim planet first.
But as we know from later on in the episode there was always a SECOND ship available to them!
Obi Wan: “Rokun, that transport, I need to get her [Leia] back to Alderaan.”
Rokun: “Once we get all these people out of here, I’ll do whatever you want. They’ve been waiting for months. We used an old trade route to get them out, but the window is closing. We held it to help you get the kid… we only have a few hours.”
Obi-Wan: “We’ll do whatever we can to help.”
So, as there was a second ship (Vader later destroys the decoy ship escaping the docking bay, the same ship used earlier to house the two TR-47s that rescued Obi-Wan, Leia and Tala from the Inquisitor Base, and which flew them back to Jabiim), then why didn’t everyone just leave immediately after arriving back on Jabbim?
Two ships, two routes, both large enough for both parties to go own their own way… Obi-Wan drops Leia off at Alderaan in one ship, while Rokun and the force sensitives move on to their next destination in the other ship; everyone gets to do what they want and move on.
Or, alternatively, why didn’t Obi-Wan and Leia simply depart from Rokun’s large transport ship in the small shuttle that is located in the belly of the Rokun’s ship, earlier and on their way back from the Inquisitor Base? Get to next habitable planet, and then send a holographic message to Bail Organa to come get them?
This was Reva’s long-term plan? That she was actually hunting Vader? To work her way up through the ranks of the Inquisitors to get the chance to kill Vader and avenge her slain youngling friends?
That is a convoluted plan, and one that doesn’t really hold up to much scrutiny. Surely there would have been a number of opportunities to carry this out on Vader over the past 10 years?
For example, when Vader is being considerable tasked by using the Force, so he may not be able to sense an attack coming, or maybe sense able it as quickly?
Instead of simply trying to sneak up to Vader from behind and strike him down, which again, is something she could have done at many previous points over the past 10 years, and would also save herself the trauma of killing other innocents, children, Jedi, force sensitives, all for the Empire’s bidding during that time. As well as trying to hide her plan from everyone that she has been around since she joined the Inquisitors at an early age.
Reva also then refuses the direct offer of help from Obi-Wan Kenobi, the only person who has heavily defeated Vader before, and who is probably the only person who has offered her such help to kill Vader.
I think Reva also used Force Heal +7 and Force Speed +10 to go from being impaled by lightsaber and left to rot on Jabiim, without a transport, to getting to Tatooine and then locating Owen’s farm. All occurring while Vader was still chasing Roken’s transport ship.
Vader is on an Imperial Star Destroyer pursuing Rokun’s crippled transport ship, and Obi-Wan decides he must leave Rokun’s ship to attempt to lure Vader after him, in the hope the others on board can get away.
The problem is the logic of the writing for this situation.
Obi-Wan leaves Rokun’s ship. The Grand Inquisitor is on the Star Destroyer bridge reminding Vader this is the chance to wipe out this network in its entirety. Instead, Vader decides to order the Star Destroyer to ignore Rokun’s crippled ship and follow Kenobi. Yet moments later Vader boards his personal shuttle and goes to face Kenobi alone. So why didn’t Vader get in his personal shuttle moments earlier and pursue Kenobi himself? Leaving the Star Destroyer to continue pursuing and eventually capturing Rokun’s crippled ship?
Or why didn’t Vader at least launch some TIE Fighters or shuttles to engage Rokun’s ship when the Star Destroyer breaks off to follow Kenobi? Or even having TIEs or shuttles simply follow Rokun’s crippled ship in a bid to find Rokun’s destination.
No, Obi-Wan’s plan succeeds because, despite all of the options available to Vader… it just does. As others have said on here, and elsewhere online, this whole scene is just baffling.
The contradictory or inconsistent dialogue within the series itself:
Vader; in episode 3: “I am what you made me”
Vader; in episode 6: “You didn’t fail Anakin. I killed Anakin.”
Some have said that Obi-Wan is simply referring to Anakin’s suit in episode 3, the thing that Obi-Wan put him in after defeating him on Mustafar in ROTS, and this is the first time Obi-Wan sees Anakin in the suit. (Except it isn’t: the first time he sees Anakin in the suit is when Anakin is torturing and killing civilians in the street, trying to goad Obi-Wan into action against him).
And in episode 6, Anakin is referring to whole person; his body, personality, spirit and mind.
In episode 3, Obi Wan asks Anakin: “What have you become?”. This is not just the suit, but also asking Anakin to look what he has done to those poor civilians in the street earlier. To look at what he was before as a man, in comparison to what he is now. Obi-Wan was referring to the sheer level or inhumanity displayed by Anakin, and his disgust by it.
So when Vader later tells Obi-Wan in episode 6 “You didn’t fail Anakin. I killed Anakin.”, I find this is contradictory. To me, anyway.
Maybe it was because the two episodes were written by two different people, and it simply got past both of them, and anyone who checks these things before filming? I do not know.
This was a scene many of us have seen repeated before, and it was difficult to not notice the parallels between this mask-cutting conversation and also a very similar imagery in the animated series Star Wars: Rebels, the finale of season 2, in 2016.
Ahsoka (who strongly suspects Vader is Anakin): “My Master could never be as vile as you.”
Vader: “Anakin Skywalker was weak. I destroyed him.”
Ahsoka: “Then I will avenge his death”
Vader: “Revenge is not the Jedi way”
Ahsoka: “I am no Jedi.”
The two then fight with lightsabers, with Ahsoka breaking Vader’s mask and exposing Anakin’s face, in exactly the same Obi-Wan does in this series. Even the same voice modulation usage for switching between Vader’ and Anakin’s voice is repeated, in dialogue below.
Vader: “Ahsoka…”
Ahsoka: “Anakin…? I won’t leave you. Not this time…”
Vader: “Then you will die!”
and the two character continue the lightsaber fight as the scene cuts away.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr7ufR7utEo&t=96s
Reva deciding she is going to go kill young Luke.
Reva’s new mission is to kill a young boy because she either wants “justice” or “revenge” on Vader. Yet we are shown the only reason she can’t kill Luke when she has the opportunity, is because she sees herself in that similar position, 10 years ago. And then, at the end, Obi-Wan lets her live and tells her she is free because she didn’t go actually through with it (though she likely would have, if under different circumstances).
Also, why go kill Luke in the first place? Vader doesn’t know who he is, or that he even has a son. What “revenge” or “justice” is that?
Luke sees Reva in the doorway with her lightsaber drawn, just before Beru hits her with a haymaker, who then screams at Luke to “Go!”. Are we to believe a 10 year old Luke forgets what a lightsaber looks like after this traumatic experience being sought after by this person wielding such a unique weapon (who very much doesn’t look like the Tusken Raiders Uncle Owen was talking about moments before), and that Luke also likely heard being wielded around the house fighting Uncle Owen, and also outside the room he is hiding in?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj1kh_1qhCU
Luke is then is chased by Reva, over the sand dunes.
So, when Obi-Wan hands Luke a lightsaber in Star Wars: ANH, Luke should know what it is, at least after activating the blade. “I thought these things only came in red!”, he could have now said.
Or Luke may remember hearing rumours and stories over time from people in town, talking of the time Uncle Owen was threatened by strange Imperials with red lightsabres. One of whom put a lightsaber to Owen’ throat in front of everyone there that day. For a quiet near-deserted planet in the outer rim, away from the control of the Empire, such an event would be memorable to most people in the town who saw this, and would likely be a growing topic of conversation for a long time to come.
Obi-Wan to Reva: “Now you’re free. We both are.”
How? Reva may be free now she has realised the error of her ways, can now choose a different path. She can start afresh, maybe even try to make things right or make amends.
This is despite Reva’s story arc basically consisting of: Wanting revenge for her fellow Jedi younglings being killed. So she became an Inquisitor to hunt and kill Jedi, and other force sensitives, including children… all to gain the trust of Vader so she could get close to him and then kill him. And when she failed, she made her goal the killing another young child. She certainly does have a lot to make up for now she is free.
But Obi-Wan being free?: He is still in hiding, still wanted by the Empire. The very tyrannical fascist and oppressive Empire that still run the galaxy. Obi-Wan doesn’t know the Emperor ordered Vader to stop looking for him, so Obi-Wan thinks Vader is still looking for him.
Obi-Wan now also has the weight and conscience of sparing Vader’s life, despite him knowing the death and suffering Vader has already brought to so many, and also the death and suffering Vader will bring to many others in the future. How it that “being free”?
The Inquisitors and the Empire know of the “connection” between between Bail and Kenobi in the archives, and that Kenobi immediately came out of hiding after they had organised the kidnapping of Leia. And yet Obi-Wan turns up in broad daylight on Alderaan to return Leia’s droid, say hello to the Organas, and tell Leia to keep their knowledge of each a secret as it could endanger them both.
It would appear Obi-Wan is doing that there and then.
Surely Obi-Wan must be aware that the Empire would be keeping close tabs on Bail and Leia now, and they are probably under Imperial surveillance. Yet he turns up anyway, in daylight, and in public view of anyone watching. It was a good scene, though.
Poor Qui-Gon. Though Obi-Wan may want to talk with him about the consequences of keeping promises to dying friends.
This topic is more a light-hearted and joke “issue”: People in Star Wars really need to stop just leaving others for dead! 😉
This has become more of a thing in recent times. But still. The Grand Inquisitor, Third Sister, Obi-Wan, Vader in ROTS, Boba Fett, the Emperor, basically everyone who should have died. Probably Mace Windu someday soon too.
Has someone checked on Qui-Gon, as almost everyone else seems to survive being impaled by lightsaber, are we certain he died?
Are we now sure that is Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru in Star Wars: ANH, pictured above?
Or…
And not some dead stormtroopers that they killed and stole their uniforms from, before going on a killing spree of anything and everything Imperial. That sassy Beru didn’t persuade Owen to finally let Luke go off with Obi-Wan on a “damn fool idealistic crusade”, faked their deaths, and then were able to do their own thing: embarking on a full on rampage slaughtering Imperials wherever they found them and inducing fear into the Empire wherever they went, on such a scale it would make even Tarkin blush?
Roaming the galaxy killing Imps with some killer sass put-downs from Owen, and some bare knuckle beatings from Beru. I’d actually watch that as a limited Disney+ series. 😉
Canon-wise it also works too. For anyone asking where the rest of the massive Imperial fleet is after the destruction of the Death Star in Return Of The Jedi. It was decimated not by the Rebels, civilians uprising, or infighting among Imperial warlords vying for power. It was simply this pair.
Regulators Moisture vaporater farmers, mount up!
Emre1601 said: (on June 11, 2022)
I would love to see original script for this by Hossein Amini.
Before Kathleen Kennedy wanted a more “hopeful, uplifting story”:
‘Kennedy discussed original scripts for the series penned by Hossein Amini, and how she ended up replacing the writer with Joby Harold to turn the dark story into something brighter and more hopeful. “We’re looking, ultimately, to make a hopeful, uplifting story. And it’s tricky when you’re starting with a character in the state that Obi-Wan would be in coming off of Revenge Of The Sith. That’s a pretty bleak period of time. You can’t just wave the magic wand with any writer and arrive at a story that necessarily reflects what you want to feel.’ (from Rolling Stone)
I still have some reservations about the story clashing and altering what was previously established with the Original Trilogy:-
Obi-Wan & Vader’s Duel In Kenobi Will Change Star Wars Canon In 4 Ways - from Screenrant, if this comes to be true.
“As you know, we would never break canon. So, that’s all I’ll say. … Canon is everything.” - from Vanity Fair
Obi-Wan Kenobi writer says all Star Wars timeline and canon questions will be ‘answered fully’ -“By the time everything has concluded, all things should be in place,” Joby Harold says of potential discrepancies - from Entertainment Weekly
How could all timeline and canon questions be “answered fully”? I like and look forward to enjoying new Star Wars releases, but not when new Star Wars rewrites or affects the events of the Original Trilogy.
I can separate the two releases, but should we have to when we are told canon is being respected, but then isn’t (or “if it is viable to do so”?), then we are told to wait until the end of the new series to find out?
It can still be a good series, to be enjoyed, and for some fans canon does not matter, or we all see thing just see things differently.
But it does change when the new Kenobi writer Joby Harold, says “canon is everything” and “we would never break canon”, but then doesn’t seem to be so sure himself (“is it viable within canon?”), and later says all canon questions will be “answered fully” at the end.
No. For me, all timeline and canon questions were not “answered fully”. But this is just my view. Maybe others too, maybe not.
As others have stated, there are even more issues in the Kenobi series. Probably with other Star Wars content and also within the series itself. Above are just the scenes or topics I noticed, basically in plain sight, that troubled me upon viewing them.
If anyone knows any more inconsistency issues with the series, please post them below. Or if anyone wants to use any of this for their own post or thread, please do. English is not my first language, which is also why I also use images to help try explain myself more clearly, and some kind people have also helped me with my words. Thanks to Jason for lots of images for this, which was all inspired by his Original Trilogy vs The Prequels: inconsistencies, retcons, plot holes and discrepancies… thread.
For me, some of “Obi Wan Kenobi”, episode 6 especially, had some moments more powerful, interesting and effective than many in the Prequels. Yet, like the Prequels, also featured various noticeable and needless issues too, which let the series down overall. But the series can still be enjoyed, and some may not care much or be bothered by such issues.
I do wonder what the original character-driven story by Hossein Amini for the Kenobi series would have been like. And I look forward to seeing what the talented and creative editors, wizards & ideas people on here come up with in the way of fan edits.
Maybe something could even be done about poorly lit shots and use of “shaky cam”, noticeable in action or lightsaber scenes.
• Andor vs Obi-Wan Kenobi - A Scene Comparison (Part 1: Action): www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORQW2MThRmY
• Andor vs Obi-Wan Kenobi - A Scene Comparison (Part 2: Writing): www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NJsSa-RPf4
• Action Scene Analysis: Obi-Wan Kenobi (Part 2: Chase Scene): www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-T89I5P-wA
• Action Scene Analysis: Obi-Wan Kenobi (Part 3: Vader vs Obi-Wan First Duel): www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzBdBIr7CtA
• Fortress Inquisitorius in Obi-Wan Kenobi vs Fallen Order (Action Breakdown): www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFEcXJmydhI
• 3rd Sister vs 2nd Sister: Inquisitor Scenes in Kenobi vs Fallen Order: www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmC_4W1GBFo
• Empire vs The Path: Battle Scene Breakdown: www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7x4xKW3skQ
• Obi-Wan vs Darth Vader Final Duel Breakdown (Obi-Wan Kenobi Finale): www.youtube.com/watch?v=lelbmnExNgQ
• Fixing Reva: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLVxebjJCOA (the actress is good; though wasted in this. Racists & sexists can fuck off)
• Fixing The Obi-Wan Kenobi Show’s Random Jedi (Nari): www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XtpZjMA4QE
• Why Star Wars is Worth Criticizing (and Analyzing) : www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFl5w5tB6Sg
‘How Star Wars: Obi-Wan Kenobi Should Have Ended’:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-4MehDB4MM - a 4 minute video
‘Obi-Wan Kenobi Pitch Meeting’:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WajEW5HPnuw - a 7 minute video
The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.
There are certain Star Wars stories outside of the movies where I can look at them and say, “Yeah, I can believe that these events happened between this movie and that movie. That’s plausible.” It doesn’t look like this show will be one of those stories. It feels much more like an alternate timeline.
If this had been a smaller-scale story, about Obi-Wan living his life and solving local conflicts on Tatooine, I might have thought differently.
My relationship with modern SW in a nutshell:
They keep finding new and better ways to maximize my indifference. It’s truly amazing.
Gods for some, miniature libertarian socialist flags for others.
I have a good video here, by one of the only good Star Wars YouTubers:
No, the Obi-Wan Kenobi Series Doesn’t Contradict A New Hope by Star Wars Explained.
There are certain Star Wars stories outside of the movies where I can look at them and say, “Yeah, I can believe that these events happened between this movie and that movie. That’s plausible.” It doesn’t look like this show will be one of those stories. It feels much more like an alternate timeline.
If this had been a smaller-scale story, about Obi-Wan living his life and solving local conflicts on Tatooine, I might have thought differently.
And the thing is, you could still have a character arc about him struggling after the trauma he endured during Order 66, how his guilt has manifested in him becoming unbalanced and unable to connect with Qui-Gon. None of that would have to change! Such a disappointment that they decided to turn this into Episode III.5: The Obi-Wan and Baby Leia Chronicles.
I have a good video here, by one of the only good Star Wars YouTubers:
No, the Obi-Wan Kenobi Series Doesn’t Contradict A New Hope by Star Wars Explained.
I always appreciate Alex for not making the typical clickbait videos that other Star Wars YouTubers make.
I have a good video here, by one of the only good Star Wars YouTubers:
No, the Obi-Wan Kenobi Series Doesn’t Contradict A New Hope by Star Wars Explained.
I always appreciate Alex for not making the typical clickbait videos that other Star Wars YouTubers make.
In a sea of crap like Mauler, Star Wars Elseworlds, Geeks+Gamers, and Mike Zeroh; guys like Alex, Eckhardt’s Ladder, HelloGreedo, and Cosmonaut Variety Hour are shining beacons of light.
I have a good video here, by one of the only good Star Wars YouTubers:
No, the Obi-Wan Kenobi Series Doesn’t Contradict A New Hope by Star Wars Explained.
As I wrote it in another topic, if something requires to do so much thinking so it sort of fits with lots of assumptions, it then emphasizes the core issues of many prequels that closely deal with what the OT is about. Leia in ANH being excited to hear Luke say “I’m with Obi-Wan” is self contained in this very story: OWK series doesn’t add anything to what was already working wihthout even needing to think about it.
I really wish they would stop making prequel stuff, it’s damaging everything. At some point I think I’ll just consider the OT as canon, maybe adding the 2003 TCW tvseries as part of it.
I remember I read one of the original plans of the PT was to show the rise of the Empire without showing any character from the OT besides the two droids (so no: Yoda, Ben, Vader, Emperor, Boba, etc. who all come with their continuity issues). Each trilogy would have been the story of another set of characters within the grand scheme of this never ending conflict of Good v Evil. Not something shrunken down to getting to know all younger versions of known characters, even showing them as babies or lil kids.
Sigh…
So long 🙌
Well, the thing is that Lucas created quite a few issues between the OT and PT that were never dealt with until this series.
Padme dies and Leia was already taken away from her and yet she has memories of her mother. When Kenobi is around her in this series, she constantly reminds him if Padme. And there are several examples where Leia is obviously using the force to read minds and she could easily have seen Kenobi’s memories of her mother. She could also have seen some memories from bail as well.
Leia’s powers are subtle and are never manifested. Vader doesn’t sense her power. Kenobi doesn’t sense her power. Luke doesn’t sense her power. Yoda says there is another, another Skykwalker and Kenobi says it is her. So only Yoda picked up on it. Even the inquisitors didn’t pick up on it. So her power must also provide some cloaking. She isn’t a skilled pilot or mechanic like her brother and father. She is a skilled diplomat and politician like her mother. So no one notices she has great power and how it does manifest itself aids her in what she is good at.
Why would Kenobi make up the story about Vader betraying and murdering Anakin? Either he is hiding things from Luke, or now, he is using Vader’s own explanation. But there is no need to tell Luke where it came from. He tells Luke that certain things can be true from a certain point of view. Not just this. So he used it as a teaching moment.
And for the most part, this series is a few days where a few people call him Obi-wan again, but mostly they call him Ben. So he is exaggerating a bit when he says he hasn’t used that name since before Luke was born. Even the original dialog provides some leeway. And it isn’t like he stopped being called Obi-wan before Luke was actually born even without this series. The Jedi were destroyed before Luke was born and he is likely marking that as when he ceased being called obi-wan, even if that is not quite true per Ep III. This series doesn’t really change that. It just reveals a few people did call him that in a brief episodes.
One of the things about stories is that you have to apply a dose of reality to them. Taking every single quote as 100% fact does not reflect how most people talk. Most conversations have short cuts, incomplete statements, hyperbole, and don’t reflect the absolute truth. It is rare that someone can accurately relate the specific time since an event, like Sheldon Cooper, C-3PI, Mr. Spock, or Data constantly do. Most just throw out something that is roughly correct and writers write with that in mind. In fact writers are often more exact that real people ever are. Someone might throw out that something happened seven years ago in a conversation, but in reality it was 9 years ago. Times might be rounded up or down. And that is just the vagueness of time in conversations. Taking every word of dialog at face value is not a good way of checking realistic continuity (unless you have one of those very exact characters).
And Star Wars has always put the drama first. Things are not always described in great detail. The vagueness helps keep the hood on the magic behind the scenes. That is why Midichlorians were so objectionable - they opened the hood a bit and reduced the magic of the story telling.
So while there may be a few new quirks to the storyline because of this series, I think this series addressed most things well and answered more questions that it made. And any that it made are minor.
Yotsuya, when mental gymnastics, or going down the proverbial rabbit hole, are required to try to explain inconsistencies and stretches like those listed in the OP, it indicates there are indeed issues in the series.
I enjoyed Obi-Wan Kenobi overall; there was much to enjoy in it, but could not help but notice the many issues I listed in the opening post. For me, it affected my appreciation of the show, and gives me concern for future Star Wars content when there are so many noticeable issues in a much anticipated and high profile series. Though everyone’s “mileage may vary” on this, and am happy that many others did enjoy it, regardless of such issues.
It is partly why I look forward to new Star Wars content away from what has come before. With new characters, in new or rarely seen settings, and in new eras. As from a consistency point of view, it has been demonstrated time and time again there is a real problem with adhering to what was actually established in the Original Trilogy.
The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.
[yotsuya said:]
And there are several examples where Leia is obviously using the force to read minds and she could easily have seen Kenobi’s memories of her mother. She could also have seen some memories from bail as well.
It’s so obvious and yet subtle that I have no idea where it is implied she can do that.
I guess it’s thanks to Force blindness she can get memories of her mother without getting to know she has a Luke bro and that Vader is her darthy daddy 👀
The fact that Leia has memories of her mother before she died is a continuity error from the PT which is irrelevant to try to fix anyway.
So long 🙌
Never thought I’d ever defend this shitty television program
Nearly 20 years we thought, nearly two decades, a generation. Now instead only 8-9 years. Not such a long time, now.
Do you not think 9 years is a long time?
If Vader can stop a ship leaving a port and pull it to the floor in the Kenobi series, then he would also be able to repeat this in later Star Wars releases too? On the Tantive or Falcon, maybe?
The Falcon’s probably moving way too fast. As for the Tantive, who cares what Rogue One has to say lol
To me this dialogue renders Obi-Wan in ROTJ telling Luke his “from a certain point of view” story about Vader murdering his father being true as now being quite strange. These words comes from Vader’s own mouth, so it was NOT a deception, or anywhere near a big a stretch as previously, or “from a certain point of view” on Kenobi’s part, in Return Of The Jedi.
Who cares
Yet 8-9 later Vader will taunt Kenobi when they meet again on the Death Star: “Your powers are weak, old man”. This is at the start of the duel and well before Obi-Wan lets Vader strike him down. However, this time around Obi-Wan hasn’t cut himself off from the Force for the past 8-9 years. He has been communing with Qui-Gon and Yoda, continuing the training that Yoda had for him now that he can converse with Qui-Gon again. Probably along with other practicing of Force abilities during this time too. So why are Kenobi’s powers now so weak?
This is a Mauler-tier nitpick. Obi-Wan is about to, minutes from now, become more powerful than Vader could ever imagine. I’m really surprised you take issue with this, it’s not actually a plot point that Obi-Wan’s powers are actually weak, this is just villain dialogue. He’s a Sith and thinks everyone’s powers are weak except for other Sith.
"General Kenobi. Years ago, you served my father in the Clone Wars; now he begs you to help him in his struggle against the Empire. I regret that I am unable to present my father’s request to you in person; but my ship has fallen under attack and I’m afraid my mission to Alderaan has failed. I’ve placed information vital to the survival of the Rebellion into the memory systems of this R2 unit. My father will know how to retrieve it. You must see this droid safely delivered to him on Alderaan. This is our most desperate hour. Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi; you’re my only hope".
This dialogue does not at all seem weird for someone who knew someone else for a week almost a decade ago. If the line about Leia keeping it a secret that she met Obi-Wan is actually supposed to be an explanation for this, I have no idea why they felt that necessary.
Bail Organa: “He served me well during the Clone Wars and has lived in hiding since the Emperor’s purge. Yes, I will send for him.”
This has not changed
Why did Obi-Wan even disconnect from the force and bury the lightsabers if he’s supposed to be watching over and protecting Luke? With the aim of training him when the time comes (we even see him ask Uncle Owen about this in episode 1). How did he expect to be able to do that?
By digging them up? Like he does in the show?
However, how is Reva aware that Kenobi doesn’t know Anakin is alive?
Television shows shouldn’t have to hold your hand through every little detail. Who cares? It’s not like it’s difficult to believe or anything, all she has to know is the basics of how their fight ended on Mustafar.
Yet they don’t seem to have a picture, or description, of the Jedi they are actually looking for?
This is an observation, not a criticism.
Why does Vader stand there doing nothing after the Tala shoots and ignites a new fire to somehow stop Vader torturing Kenobi? Then Vader simply waits and watches for the slow moving loader droid to come rescue Kenobi and then slowly carry him off to safety?
Why do characters do anything ever? It’s a pretty massive fire. What did you want here, Vader to start expositing why he doesn’t kill himself walking to get Obi-Wan? Or why he doesn’t cast Force Pull™ on a dude he can’t even see?
What’s your point, anyway? Do you think Deborah Chow forgot something? Or was she just being careless? Like most of these “criticisms”, this is insanely nitpicky.
Why is Reva interrogating Leia like she’s a Rebel spy and has a deep knowledge about the Rebellion or Path, when she’s just a 10 year old? Does she seriously expect Leia to have this knowledge?
Probably
Bail proceeds to list every detail of their mission, including Owen’s in relation to “the boy.” This message could obviously be catastrophic if it were to end up in the wrong hands, which, of course, it does.
So, it’s internally consistent? What’s the issue?
It also makes Bail look incompetent and an idiot, something of which he is clearly not.
Bail Organa is a Jimmy Smits cameo, not a character. He doesn’t do anything in any live action Star Wars media he’s in. He is not clearly anything. I mean, his reckless connection to open rebels gets his planet blown up, so, maybe you’re being too quick saying he’s not an idiot.
Surely there would have been a number of opportunities to carry this out on Vader over the past 10 years?
Clearly not, or she would’ve done it 10 years ago. What would you have liked, for Reva to start expositing the entire past 3650 days and change so you could rest easy knowing she only had the opportunity now?
Welcome to Star Wars
Vader; in episode 3: “I am what you made me”
Vader; in episode 6: “You didn’t fail Anakin. I killed Anakin.”
These are literally not even contradictory
Obi-Wan to Reva: “Now you’re free. We both are.”
How? Reva may be free now she has realised the error of her ways, can now choose a different path. She can start afresh, maybe even try to make things right or make amends.
This is despite Reva’s story arc basically consisting of: Wanting revenge for her fellow Jedi younglings being killed. So she became an Inquisitor to hunt and kill Jedi, and other force sensitives, including children… all to gain the trust of Vader so she could get close to him and then kill him. And when she failed, she made her goal the killing another young child. She certainly does have a lot to make up for now she is free.
But Obi-Wan being free?: He is still in hiding, still wanted by the Empire. The very tyrannical fascist and oppressive Empire that still run the galaxy. Obi-Wan now also has the weight and conscience of sparing Vader’s life, despite him knowing the death and suffering Vader has already brought to so many, and also the death and suffering Vader will bring to many others in the future. How it that “being free”?
Western writers can literally not put any subtlety into their stories anymore. It’s really a shame.
They’re both spiritually and emotionally free. They’ve both been carrying baggage over Anakin, and by the end of the series they’re now capable of moving on. They’re on the “acceptance” part of the grieving process.
For me, some of “Obi Wan Kenobi”, episode 6 especially, had some moments more powerful, interesting and effective than many in the Prequels. Yet, like the Prequels, also featured various noticeable and needless issues too, which let the series down overall. But the series can still be enjoyed, and some may not care much or be bothered by such issues.
If these kinds of surface-level nitpicks are the problems you have with the PT too, you should try rewatching them with an open mind.
Far and away the best criticism of Obi-Wan in this thread.
Nearly 20 years we thought, nearly two decades, a generation. Now instead only 8-9 years. Not such a long time, now.
Do you not think 9 years is a long time?
Not speaking for Emre1601, just myself. Nope. Not at all. Hell, even twenty years feels like yesterday to me.
Gods for some, miniature libertarian socialist flags for others.
Leia is 19 in ANH. To somebody who is 19, 9 years is a heck of a long time.
[yotsuya said:]
And there are several examples where Leia is obviously using the force to read minds and she could easily have seen Kenobi’s memories of her mother. She could also have seen some memories from bail as well.It’s so obvious and yet subtle that I have no idea where it is implied she can do that.
I guess it’s thanks to Force blindness she can get memories of her mother without getting to know she has a Luke bro and that Vader is her darthy daddy 👀The fact that Leia has memories of her mother before she died is a continuity error from the PT which is irrelevant to try to fix anyway.
The scene with her cousin. She reads him like a book telling him that he is scared of his father. I think she did this 2 or 3 times in the first couple of episodes. It is very clear it is a force skill at work because she might have that background on her cousin, but not the others. And even with her cousin it is too pointed and exact and his reaction is too surprised for that to be something she could readily know. I thought it was very obvious the first couple of times I watched it.
Yotsuya, when mental gymnastics, or going down the proverbial rabbit hole, are required to try to explain inconsistencies and stretches like those listed in the OP, it indicates there are indeed issues in the series.
I enjoyed Obi-Wan Kenobi overall; there was much to enjoy in it, but could not help but notice the many issues I listed in the opening post. For me, it affected my appreciation of the show, and gives me concern for future Star Wars content when there are so many noticeable issues in a much anticipated and high profile series. Though everyone’s “mileage may vary” on this, and am happy that many others did enjoy it, regardless of such issues.
It is partly why I look forward to new Star Wars content away from what has come before. With new characters, in new or rarely seen settings, and in new eras. As from a consistency point of view, it has been demonstrated time and time again there is a real problem with adhering to what was actually established in the Original Trilogy.
I don’t require any mental gymnastics. I kept checking off things that explained what had previously required mental gymnastics. But I didn’t see anything that made new ones.
Leia is 19 in ANH. To somebody who is 19, 9 years is a heck of a long time.
Indeed it is. The older you get the quicker times seems to go.
Yotsuya, when mental gymnastics, or going down the proverbial rabbit hole, are required to try to explain inconsistencies and stretches like those listed in the OP, it indicates there are indeed issues in the series.
I enjoyed Obi-Wan Kenobi overall; there was much to enjoy in it, but could not help but notice the many issues I listed in the opening post. For me, it affected my appreciation of the show, and gives me concern for future Star Wars content when there are so many noticeable issues in a much anticipated and high profile series. Though everyone’s “mileage may vary” on this, and am happy that many others did enjoy it, regardless of such issues.
It is partly why I look forward to new Star Wars content away from what has come before. With new characters, in new or rarely seen settings, and in new eras. As from a consistency point of view, it has been demonstrated time and time again there is a real problem with adhering to what was actually established in the Original Trilogy.
I don’t require any mental gymnastics. I kept checking off things that explained what had previously required mental gymnastics. But I didn’t see anything that made new ones.
You’ve been told that repeatedly by many people on this forum and you just get defensive and claim they are all incorrect. I think great many things go right over your head.
Yotsuya, when mental gymnastics, or going down the proverbial rabbit hole, are required to try to explain inconsistencies and stretches like those listed in the OP, it indicates there are indeed issues in the series.
I enjoyed Obi-Wan Kenobi overall; there was much to enjoy in it, but could not help but notice the many issues I listed in the opening post. For me, it affected my appreciation of the show, and gives me concern for future Star Wars content when there are so many noticeable issues in a much anticipated and high profile series. Though everyone’s “mileage may vary” on this, and am happy that many others did enjoy it, regardless of such issues.
It is partly why I look forward to new Star Wars content away from what has come before. With new characters, in new or rarely seen settings, and in new eras. As from a consistency point of view, it has been demonstrated time and time again there is a real problem with adhering to what was actually established in the Original Trilogy.
I don’t require any mental gymnastics. I kept checking off things that explained what had previously required mental gymnastics. But I didn’t see anything that made new ones.
You literally introduced some mental gymnastics in your first paragraph of your post to me:
Well, the thing is that Lucas created quite a few issues between the OT and PT that were never dealt with until this series.
Padme dies and Leia was already taken away from her and yet she has memories of her mother. When Kenobi is around her in this series, she constantly reminds him if Padme. And there are several examples where Leia is obviously using the force to read minds and she could easily have seen Kenobi’s memories of her mother. She could also have seen some memories from bail as well.
Even if your “obvious” claim is taken as fact, along with your use of “could” ofs, when Luke asks Leia in ROTJ “Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?”, Leia does not reply or infer “Nothing at all. But I read the minds of others around me who were thinking about her when I was young, and so I will now present the memories from those others to you, as my own”.
Nor is Luke asking Leia for others thoughts of Leia’s mother.
This is an impressive feat of mental gymnastics you are introducing as some sort of justification.
But yes, we all agree Lucas did “create quite a few issues between the OT and PT”, but this series did not deal with them very much at all. As is listed in the OP, this series appears to add to these issues.
Leia’s powers are subtle and are never manifested. Vader doesn’t sense her power. Kenobi doesn’t sense her power. Luke doesn’t sense her power. Yoda says there is another, another Skykwalker and Kenobi says it is her. So only Yoda picked up on it. Even the inquisitors didn’t pick up on it. So her power must also provide some cloaking. She isn’t a skilled pilot or mechanic like her brother and father. She is a skilled diplomat and politician like her mother. So no one notices she has great power and how it does manifest itself aids her in what she is good at.
“Cloaking”? What? You seem to be using possible skillsets years in the future to justify the now. Luke does sense some of Leia’s ability in the being able to communicate by telepathy between the two of them in Empire Strikes Back. And in the ST we are shown that Leia was trained by Luke, so he does sense her power and abilities. Vader is impressed with her ability to resist the probe droid in SW: ANH. But Kenobi doesn’t get anywhere near her in Star Wars: ANH, up to the point of letting Vader strike him down.
Yet Leia actually directly tells Reva what Reva’s fears are during the failed interrogation on the Inquisitor Base, where Leia is able to resist Reva’s mind probe, and Reva is taken aback by it. So it is incorrect to say the Inquisitors do not pick up on it.
Why would Kenobi make up the story about Vader betraying and murdering Anakin? Either he is hiding things from Luke, or now, he is using Vader’s own explanation. But there is no need to tell Luke where it came from. He tells Luke that certain things can be true from a certain point of view. Not just this. So he used it as a teaching moment.
We know he didn’t make it up. We all know it is to hide the later retcon of Vader and Anakin now being the same person, and presented as a “stretch” in ROTJ. Yet why make the line of dialogue in Star Wars: ANH worse, or more noticeable, by now having Vader literally say to Obi-Wan that “I killed Anakin”, which certainly now jars even more with Kenobi’s line in Star Wars: ANH.
And for the most part, this series is a few days where a few people call him Obi-wan again, but mostly they call him Ben. So he is exaggerating a bit when he says he hasn’t used that name since before Luke was born. Even the original dialog provides some leeway. And it isn’t like he stopped being called Obi-wan before Luke was actually born even without this series. The Jedi were destroyed before Luke was born and he is likely marking that as when he ceased being called obi-wan, even if that is not quite true per Ep III. This series doesn’t really change that. It just reveals a few people did call him that in a brief episodes.
He doesn’t seem to be exaggerating when he said this line of dialogue at all. If you are going down the well-trodden path of the “crazy, forgetful and unreliable Ben” excuse many Prequel fans often use in an attempt to justify some of those discrepancies between the PT and OT to do so, that is up to you.
“A few people call him Obi Wan” and “a few people did call him that in a brief episodes” still results in him hearing the name Obi-Wan Kenobi on a number of occasions within the last 8-9 years. So not “That’s a name I haven’t hears in a long time. A long time.”, when you watch the scene back, the emphasis is also on “a long time” part of the dialogue.
One of the things about stories is that you have to apply a dose of reality to them. Taking every single quote as 100% fact does not reflect how most people talk. Most conversations have short cuts, incomplete statements, hyperbole, and don’t reflect the absolute truth. It is rare that someone can accurately relate the specific time since an event, like Sheldon Cooper, C-3PI, Mr. Spock, or Data constantly do. Most just throw out something that is roughly correct and writers write with that in mind. In fact writers are often more exact that real people ever are. Someone might throw out that something happened seven years ago in a conversation, but in reality it was 9 years ago. Times might be rounded up or down. And that is just the vagueness of time in conversations. Taking every word of dialog at face value is not a good way of checking realistic continuity (unless you have one of those very exact characters).
With respect, mistaking a couple of years is much different from mistaking 20 years for 9-10 years, and we know he isn’t making a mistake when he says the line of dialogue in Star Wars: ANH.
A “dose of reality required”? It is obvious Obi-Wan when states “That’s a name I haven’t hears in a long time. A long time” he is being accurate, truthful, and not mistaken; especially given the other line of dialogue from Obi Wan in Star Wars: ANH, dating these events around the same time of: “I haven’t gone by the name of Obi-Wan since, oh, before you were born”.
And Star Wars has always put the drama first. Things are not always described in great detail. The vagueness helps keep the hood on the magic behind the scenes. That is why Midichlorians were so objectionable - they opened the hood a bit and reduced the magic of the story telling.
So while there may be a few new quirks to the storyline because of this series, I think this series addressed most things well and answered more questions that it made. And any that it made are minor.
It is good you believe that, and I said in the OP, everyone has a different POV and everyone’s mileage on these isuses may vary. Obviously, we have a different point of view and disagree. But there is evidence of such discrepancies, stretches and issues listed in the OP, no matter some of the mental gymnastics resorted to in an attempt to dismiss some of the issues that people noticed in the series.
I am repeating myself, but it actually highlights how far down a rabbit hole people have to go to try and explain or justify some of these issues, inconsistencies and stretches; or somehow claiming these “issues between the OT and PT” are being addressed or “dealt with” in this series; and still come up short.
I look forward to your own thread where you claim watching this series meant you “kept checking off things that explained what had previously required mental gymnastics”. I honestly do. With respect. Emre.
The Imperial need for control is so desperate because it is so unnatural. Tyranny requires constant effort. It breaks, it leaks. Authority is brittle. Oppression is the mask of fear.
Yotsuya, when mental gymnastics, or going down the proverbial rabbit hole, are required to try to explain inconsistencies and stretches like those listed in the OP, it indicates there are indeed issues in the series.
I enjoyed Obi-Wan Kenobi overall; there was much to enjoy in it, but could not help but notice the many issues I listed in the opening post. For me, it affected my appreciation of the show, and gives me concern for future Star Wars content when there are so many noticeable issues in a much anticipated and high profile series. Though everyone’s “mileage may vary” on this, and am happy that many others did enjoy it, regardless of such issues.
It is partly why I look forward to new Star Wars content away from what has come before. With new characters, in new or rarely seen settings, and in new eras. As from a consistency point of view, it has been demonstrated time and time again there is a real problem with adhering to what was actually established in the Original Trilogy.
I don’t require any mental gymnastics. I kept checking off things that explained what had previously required mental gymnastics. But I didn’t see anything that made new ones.
You’ve been told that repeatedly by many people on this forum and you just get defensive and claim they are all incorrect. I think great many things go right over your head.
Stop thinking you live in a world where people can’t have different opinions and both be right. I’m not saying anyone is incorrect. I’m saying I don’t agree. What is going over your head is that I am stating my opinion. I found this series to solve more issues than it caused. I think a great deal of the issues listed here are nitpicking to a high order. That may be what some truly believe, but that is not my opinion and I don’t have to agree.
Yotsuya, when mental gymnastics, or going down the proverbial rabbit hole, are required to try to explain inconsistencies and stretches like those listed in the OP, it indicates there are indeed issues in the series.
I enjoyed Obi-Wan Kenobi overall; there was much to enjoy in it, but could not help but notice the many issues I listed in the opening post. For me, it affected my appreciation of the show, and gives me concern for future Star Wars content when there are so many noticeable issues in a much anticipated and high profile series. Though everyone’s “mileage may vary” on this, and am happy that many others did enjoy it, regardless of such issues.
It is partly why I look forward to new Star Wars content away from what has come before. With new characters, in new or rarely seen settings, and in new eras. As from a consistency point of view, it has been demonstrated time and time again there is a real problem with adhering to what was actually established in the Original Trilogy.
I don’t require any mental gymnastics. I kept checking off things that explained what had previously required mental gymnastics. But I didn’t see anything that made new ones.
You literally introduced some mental gymnastics in your first paragraph of your post to me:
Well, the thing is that Lucas created quite a few issues between the OT and PT that were never dealt with until this series.
Padme dies and Leia was already taken away from her and yet she has memories of her mother. When Kenobi is around her in this series, she constantly reminds him if Padme. And there are several examples where Leia is obviously using the force to read minds and she could easily have seen Kenobi’s memories of her mother. She could also have seen some memories from bail as well.
Even if your “obvious” claim is taken as fact, along with your use of “could” ofs, when Luke asks Leia in ROTJ “Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?”, Leia does not reply or infer “Nothing at all. But I read the minds of others around me who were thinking about her when I was young, and so I will now present the memories from those others to you, as my own”.
Nor is Luke asking Leia for others thoughts of Leia’s mother.
This is an impressive feat of mental gymnastics you are introducing as some sort of justification.
But yes, we all agree Lucas did “create quite a few issues between the OT and PT”, but this series did not deal with them very much at all. As is listed in the OP, this series appears to add to these issues.
Leia’s powers are subtle and are never manifested. Vader doesn’t sense her power. Kenobi doesn’t sense her power. Luke doesn’t sense her power. Yoda says there is another, another Skykwalker and Kenobi says it is her. So only Yoda picked up on it. Even the inquisitors didn’t pick up on it. So her power must also provide some cloaking. She isn’t a skilled pilot or mechanic like her brother and father. She is a skilled diplomat and politician like her mother. So no one notices she has great power and how it does manifest itself aids her in what she is good at.
“Cloaking”? What? You seem to be using possible skillsets years in the future to justify the now. Luke does sense some of Leia’s ability in the being able to communicate by telepathy between the two of them in Empire Strikes Back. And in the ST we are shown that Leia was trained by Luke, so he does sense her power and abilities. Vader is impressed with her ability to resist the probe droid in SW: ANH. But Kenobi doesn’t get anywhere near her in Star Wars: ANH, up to the point of letting Vader strike him down.
Yet Leia actually directly tells Reva what Reva’s fears are during the failed interrogation on the Inquisitor Base, where Leia is able to resist Reva’s mind probe, and Reva is taken aback by it. So it is incorrect to say the Inquisitors do not pick up on it.
Why would Kenobi make up the story about Vader betraying and murdering Anakin? Either he is hiding things from Luke, or now, he is using Vader’s own explanation. But there is no need to tell Luke where it came from. He tells Luke that certain things can be true from a certain point of view. Not just this. So he used it as a teaching moment.
We know he didn’t make it up. We all know it is to hide the later retcon of Vader and Anakin now being the same person, and presented as a “stretch” in ROTJ. Yet why make the line of dialogue in Star Wars: ANH worse, or more noticeable, by now having Vader literally say to Obi-Wan that “I killed Anakin”, which certainly now jars even more with Kenobi’s line in Star Wars: ANH.
And for the most part, this series is a few days where a few people call him Obi-wan again, but mostly they call him Ben. So he is exaggerating a bit when he says he hasn’t used that name since before Luke was born. Even the original dialog provides some leeway. And it isn’t like he stopped being called Obi-wan before Luke was actually born even without this series. The Jedi were destroyed before Luke was born and he is likely marking that as when he ceased being called obi-wan, even if that is not quite true per Ep III. This series doesn’t really change that. It just reveals a few people did call him that in a brief episodes.
He doesn’t seem to be exaggerating when he said this line of dialogue at all. If you are going down the well-trodden path of the “crazy, forgetful and unreliable Ben” excuse many Prequel fans often use in an attempt to justify some of those discrepancies between the PT and OT to do so, that is up to you.
“A few people call him Obi Wan” and “a few people did call him that in a brief episodes” still results in him hearing the name Obi-Wan Kenobi on a number of occasions within the last 8-9 years. So not “That’s a name I haven’t hears in a long time. A long time.”, when you watch the scene back, the emphasis is also on “a long time” part of the dialogue.
One of the things about stories is that you have to apply a dose of reality to them. Taking every single quote as 100% fact does not reflect how most people talk. Most conversations have short cuts, incomplete statements, hyperbole, and don’t reflect the absolute truth. It is rare that someone can accurately relate the specific time since an event, like Sheldon Cooper, C-3PI, Mr. Spock, or Data constantly do. Most just throw out something that is roughly correct and writers write with that in mind. In fact writers are often more exact that real people ever are. Someone might throw out that something happened seven years ago in a conversation, but in reality it was 9 years ago. Times might be rounded up or down. And that is just the vagueness of time in conversations. Taking every word of dialog at face value is not a good way of checking realistic continuity (unless you have one of those very exact characters).
With respect, mistaking a couple of years is much different from mistaking 20 years for 9-10 years, and we know he isn’t making a mistake when he says the line of dialogue in Star Wars: ANH.
A “dose of reality required”? It is obvious Obi-Wan when states “That’s a name I haven’t hears in a long time. A long time” he is being accurate, truthful, and not mistaken; especially given the other line of dialogue from Obi Wan in Star Wars: ANH, dating these events around the same time of: “I haven’t gone by the name of Obi-Wan since, oh, before you were born”.
And Star Wars has always put the drama first. Things are not always described in great detail. The vagueness helps keep the hood on the magic behind the scenes. That is why Midichlorians were so objectionable - they opened the hood a bit and reduced the magic of the story telling.
So while there may be a few new quirks to the storyline because of this series, I think this series addressed most things well and answered more questions that it made. And any that it made are minor.
It is good you believe that, and I said in the OP, everyone has a different POV and everyone’s mileage on these isuses may vary. Obviously, we have a different point of view and disagree. But there is evidence of such discrepancies, stretches and issues listed in the OP, no matter some of the mental gymnastics resorted to in an attempt to dismiss some of the issues that people noticed in the series.
I am repeating myself, but it actually highlights how far down a rabbit hole people have to go to try and explain or justify some of these issues, inconsistencies and stretches; or somehow claiming these “issues between the OT and PT” are being addressed or “dealt with” in this series; and still come up short.
I look forward to your own thread where you claim watching this series meant you “kept checking off things that explained what had previously required mental gymnastics”. I honestly do. With respect. Emre.
That is all fine. It is your opinion and you are entitled to it, but I don’t agree. I don’t see any issues with this series and the saga films. None at all. That is my opinion. So we don’t agree. Who cares. We can both share our opinions and anyone can join in or have even other opinions. That is what discussion is about. As I said, I don’t see any mental gymnastics needed to fit this in with the saga. It think the landscape before this required more and this has smoothed things out considerably.
Leia never reads anyone’s mind using the Force. That is absurd. She’s a perceptive kid. She’s not tapping into the Force and into someone’s mind.
Yotsuya, when mental gymnastics, or going down the proverbial rabbit hole, are required to try to explain inconsistencies and stretches like those listed in the OP, it indicates there are indeed issues in the series.
I enjoyed Obi-Wan Kenobi overall; there was much to enjoy in it, but could not help but notice the many issues I listed in the opening post. For me, it affected my appreciation of the show, and gives me concern for future Star Wars content when there are so many noticeable issues in a much anticipated and high profile series. Though everyone’s “mileage may vary” on this, and am happy that many others did enjoy it, regardless of such issues.
It is partly why I look forward to new Star Wars content away from what has come before. With new characters, in new or rarely seen settings, and in new eras. As from a consistency point of view, it has been demonstrated time and time again there is a real problem with adhering to what was actually established in the Original Trilogy.
I don’t require any mental gymnastics. I kept checking off things that explained what had previously required mental gymnastics. But I didn’t see anything that made new ones.
You’ve been told that repeatedly by many people on this forum and you just get defensive and claim they are all incorrect. I think great many things go right over your head.
Stop thinking you live in a world where people can’t have different opinions and both be right. I’m not saying anyone is incorrect. I’m saying I don’t agree. What is going over your head is that I am stating my opinion. I found this series to solve more issues than it caused. I think a great deal of the issues listed here are nitpicking to a high order. That may be what some truly believe, but that is not my opinion and I don’t have to agree.
Dude you just disagree with ANY criticism. You just like to ramble exotic excuses (I’m sure you disagree). But when you claim “I see NOTHING wrong with this series or any of the films” it just makes you come across as a sycophant…meaning you would never notice a flaw even if it slapped you in the face. The odd arguments you keep typing out are just derailing and argumentative for the sake of it. And before you start getting insensitive about this post, I have to mention MANY people have tried to explain things to you and you choose to create silly excuses to pretend you have it all figured out and it’s perfect. I honestly don’t know why you post here sometimes.
I’ll put my Saber on low power and leave this topic. You’re giving the adults headaches.
I’ll put my Saber on low power and leave this topic. You’re giving the adults headaches.
Well that’s a funny ragequit.
