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Opinion Poll on Go-Mer-Tonic — Page 4

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Originally posted by: Darth_Evil
Shut up you stupid fucker.

Here's my opinion on Go-Mer. He's a classic internet troll, and an excellent one at that. He's a textbook troll and anyone saying otherwise is a textbook idiot. He derails every thread he visits making it a PT arguement so he can glorify his gay lover Lucas. I'll say it one more time. I AM OK WITH DIFFERING OPINIONS, but only when they add to the discussion, and don't derail it. Hell, who knows if Go-Mer even really thinks it. He's just trolling.

And this thread probably only has a few posts left before Jay closes it. Remember how I tried the same thing?

We need to ban Go-Mer. End of story.


Wow, what a logical, mature, thought-provoking arguement!

Seriously, I've seen many topics Go-Mer was in that he DIDN'T derail--heck, he hasn't derailed the "What did the PT Need?" topic, and that one's all about how fans could improve the PT. He's actually contributed ideas for it.

I fail to see where the idea that he's sucking up to Lucas comes from--he's more lenient on the guy than the rest of us, but he's no more lenient on Lucas than, say, I am for Michael Jackson's change of skin color. Go-Mer seems only to say that we don't have all the facts, or that we misinterpret the ones we do have. Maybe he's wrong, but that doesn't make him a troll.

Honestly, I think the thing that ticks most people off about Go-Mer is that they can't concretely prove he's a troll. I mean last year, there was a PT Gusher who went around and cussed out anyone who didn't like the PT--that was a troll. And funnily enough, he didn't get half the reaction Go-Mer does.

I've seen a lot of posts by Go-Mer and I don't see anything that makes him different from any other poster who just happens to see redeeming value in the PT. He's not "gushing" it, he's not writing "love letters to Lucas" or whatever people are accusing him of doing. The worst he's doing is having an opinion different from yours.

Yea, I know, you say you're okay with differing opinions... but your anger proves you are not.
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Originally posted by: JamesEightBitStar

Honestly, I think the thing that ticks most people off about Go-Mer is that they can't concretely prove he's a troll. I mean last year, there was a PT Gusher who went around and cussed out anyone who didn't like the PT--that was a troll. And funnily enough, he didn't get half the reaction Go-Mer does.


He or she probably didn't make endless numbers of pointless, insinuating replies like Go-Mer does.

While I don't think he should be banned, we can at least say that he enjoys provoking people and there's no doubt about that. If anything it's rather laughable behavior considering how old he claims to be. (I envision this fat guy spending all of his time indoors, sitting at a computer, surounded by George Lucas merchandise, humming the main theme from Star Wars and passively giggling whenever someone is annoyed by his behavior.)

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Honestly, I usually picture people as their avatar, and then their personalities start to change my perception of that picture. With Go-Mer, for example, the smug Han Solo seems to fit very well.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Tiptup
Originally posted by: JamesEightBitStar

Honestly, I think the thing that ticks most people off about Go-Mer is that they can't concretely prove he's a troll. I mean last year, there was a PT Gusher who went around and cussed out anyone who didn't like the PT--that was a troll. And funnily enough, he didn't get half the reaction Go-Mer does.


He or she probably didn't make endless numbers of pointless, insinuating replies like Go-Mer does.


The guy I described was 10x worse than Go-Mer. People call Go-Mer a Lucas suckup, but this other guy would literally CUSS YOU OUT if you didn't like the PT or the SEs. And he posted much more than Go-Mer did. And again, he didn't get half the reaction that Go-Mer is getting now.
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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Honestly, I usually picture people as their avatar, and then their personalities start to change my perception of that picture. With Go-Mer, for example, the smug Han Solo seems to fit very well.


Here here. I do that too. Sadly, the face of Han Solo pisses me off now.
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

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I think have sort of a solution to everyones problem, so this way nobody gets banned, and we don't get labeled a site of being exclusionary like TFN.

I think Jay needs to divde up discussions boards now as a whole seperate board for PT talk, and OT talk. This way it atleast keeps any PT talk to a whole seperate page that anyone here who doesn't recognize them as movies have to even venture on, and for those fans of the O-OT who like, love, or even hate em, but still love gushing or bitching about them, they can talk all they want.

I tried to achieve this at TFN by establishing an O-OT Page, where every topic was circa 1977-83, so there was no chance of any SE lover chiming in about the new SPX, Greedo shooting first, or Hayden in ROTJ. I was shot down, and pretty much laughed at, and that was one of the reasons I stopped posting there.

So Jay, I think if you have seperate boards for OT & PT talk, and all the saga talk 1-6 can also go on the PT board, I think alot of people wouldn't get as mad anymore, cause I think many of them won't even venture on that board. And then you could see who a real troll is if they start making smart ass remarks on an OT board.
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But even if we did that, Gomer would still post here because he's a troll. He doesn't want to discuss the prequels and his love of Lucas. He wants to troll. That would be a good idea, and we definately need a board like that, but is no solution to the Gomer problem.
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
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Originally posted by: CO
I think have sort of a solution to everyones problem, so this way nobody gets banned, and we don't get labeled a site of being exclusionary like TFN.

I think Jay needs to divde up discussions boards now as a whole seperate board for PT talk, and OT talk. This way it atleast keeps any PT talk to a whole seperate page that anyone here who doesn't recognize them as movies have to even venture on, and for those fans of the O-OT who like, love, or even hate em, but still love gushing or bitching about them, they can talk all they want.

I tried to achieve this at TFN by establishing an O-OT Page, where every topic was circa 1977-83, so there was no chance of any SE lover chiming in about the new SPX, Greedo shooting first, or Hayden in ROTJ. I was shot down, and pretty much laughed at, and that was one of the reasons I stopped posting there.

So Jay, I think if you have seperate boards for OT & PT talk, and all the saga talk 1-6 can also go on the PT board, I think alot of people wouldn't get as mad anymore, cause I think many of them won't even venture on that board. And then you could see who a real troll is if they start making smart ass remarks on an OT board.


There's a very huge problem here. As per your proposal:

* Any OT talk that involves the SEs goes on the PT board
* Any Star Wars talk that encompasses all six movies would go on the PT board
* Any SW talk that doesn't involve strictly the O-OT (and, presumeably, the EU based around the O-OT) goes on the PT board.

First of all, newbies would get confused at this. They would see a board called the "OT Board" and assume its the place to talk about the SEs. They would never think that you would talk about the SE-OT on a board labelled PT--it just isn't logical.

Secondly, considering that practically all we do here is moan about the changes and the PT, it seems to me like all that would happen is that most of the discussion would migrate to the PT board and we'd be right back where we began.

Thirdly, topics such as Lucas interviews.... where would they go?

Finally, the fundemental question of Go-Mer would not be resolved at all. In fact, I suspect that people like Darth_Evil would just continue complaining about him. It would be worse because we'd have people finding even more baseless reasons to pounce on him.

Case in point, imagine if someone posted in the hypothetical O-OT Forum, and asked about an obscure plot point in Return of the Jedi, and Go-Mer responded and simply answered the question, WITHOUT bringing the PT or the SEs or the EU into the discussion (which I know he's capable of because I have seen him do it). Go-Mer's critics would not care for the actual content of his post, they would simply see a Go-Mer post in the O-OT forum and assume he was "trolling," and in their minds they would have even more hard evidence even though they really wouldn't.

Personally, I think it would be bad management if Originaltrilogy.com created another subsection for their forums--the ones they have already cover pretty much all the ground possible and adding a new one would not resolve anything, but would actually create more problems later down the line.
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I'm with vote_for_palpatine on this one. This is one of the few places on the net that's about unadulterated Star Wars. It's a breath of fresh air most of the time.
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Originally posted by: JamesEightBitStar


There's a very huge problem here. As per your proposal:

* Any OT talk that involves the SEs goes on the PT board
* Any Star Wars talk that encompasses all six movies would go on the PT board
* Any SW talk that doesn't involve strictly the O-OT (and, presumeably, the EU based around the O-OT) goes on the PT board.

First of all, newbies would get confused at this. They would see a board called the "OT Board" and assume its the place to talk about the SEs. They would never think that you would talk about the SE-OT on a board labelled PT--it just isn't logical.

Secondly, considering that practically all we do here is moan about the changes and the PT, it seems to me like all that would happen is that most of the discussion would migrate to the PT board and we'd be right back where we began.

Thirdly, topics such as Lucas interviews.... where would they go?

Finally, the fundemental question of Go-Mer would not be resolved at all. In fact, I suspect that people like Darth_Evil would just continue complaining about him. It would be worse because we'd have people finding even more baseless reasons to pounce on him.

Case in point, imagine if someone posted in the hypothetical O-OT Forum, and asked about an obscure plot point in Return of the Jedi, and Go-Mer responded and simply answered the question, WITHOUT bringing the PT or the SEs or the EU into the discussion (which I know he's capable of because I have seen him do it). Go-Mer's critics would not care for the actual content of his post, they would simply see a Go-Mer post in the O-OT forum and assume he was "trolling," and in their minds they would have even more hard evidence even though they really wouldn't.

Personally, I think it would be bad management if Originaltrilogy.com created another subsection for their forums--the ones they have already cover pretty much all the ground possible and adding a new one would not resolve anything, but would actually create more problems later down the line.


There's already a place to talk about SE changes vs Theatrical, and any newbie can find it. (I did.) If Gomer did, one day, answer something within the realm of the Unaltered trilogy, I'd listen to him and would not call it trolling because it would not BE trolling. When every post is the same thing, glorifying Lucas and pushing our buttons, he's trolling. I will complain about him until the day he begins bringing relevant points to this discussion. Simple as that. I'm reasonable, and I'm fair. People who come here and love the PT are ok in my book, as long as they don't shove opinions down our throats and actually have evidence to support thier claims.

EDIT:
Oh, and why do we keep whining about PT changes? Oh yeah. Gomer keeps derailing the threads to that topic, in which we present our views. If he didn't keep derailing topics, those opinions would only come up sparingly.
Watch DarthEvil's Who Framed Darth Vader? video on YouTube!

You can also access the entire Horriffic Violence Theater Series from my Channel Page.
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Originally posted by: JamesEightBitStar

The guy I described was 10x worse than Go-Mer. People call Go-Mer a Lucas suckup, but this other guy would literally CUSS YOU OUT if you didn't like the PT or the SEs. And he posted much more than Go-Mer did. And again, he didn't get half the reaction that Go-Mer is getting now.


Well, I wasn't here so I'll take your word on that then.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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doesn't Go-Mer refresh the place a bit? In a place where everyone agrees, throw in a lil' Go-Mer-Tonic and the place gets a lot more interesting... really, how long can you bitch and moan about the same stuff? It's gotta get old sometime.
"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
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Originally posted by: Darth_Evil

There's already a place to talk about SE changes vs Theatrical, and any newbie can find it. (I did.) If Gomer did, one day, answer something within the realm of the Unaltered trilogy, I'd listen to him and would not call it trolling because it would not BE trolling. When every post is the same thing, glorifying Lucas and pushing our buttons, he's trolling. I will complain about him until the day he begins bringing relevant points to this discussion. Simple as that. I'm reasonable, and I'm fair. People who come here and love the PT are ok in my book, as long as they don't shove opinions down our throats and actually have evidence to support thier claims.

As I said earlier, if Go-Mer is such a PT Gusher, why did he actually contribute ideas to fan-prequels in the "What did the PT Need" topic? Heck, that's a topic ABOUT problems with the PT and I don't see Go-Mer spamming it up....

EDIT:
Oh, and why do we keep whining about PT changes? Oh yeah. Gomer keeps derailing the threads to that topic, in which we present our views. If he didn't keep derailing topics, those opinions would only come up sparingly.


Nice. The problem is your wrong. I've been coming here for two years and even befoe Go-Mer arrived, 9/10 of our discussion was all about the PT and how much it sucked.

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I lean back and laugh at the whole thing.
I don't mind what happens or not happens to him.
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As I said, Go-Mer often gets into arguments where he and the other person simply post nonsense and this usually seems like it is because Go-Mer can't let people have a differing opinion and because he enjoys it when people are frustrated with him. It's childish but not worthy of banning. Web forums that police everything to an extreme are lame. (Besides, if the other players didn't take part in those conversations they wouldn't go as far as they do.) He offers a different opinion to discuss and I think that's generally a good thing, even if we end up with a lot of off-topic threads.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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-I- am the one who can't "let" others have a differing opinion? I come here for the purposes of -seeking out- different opinions.

Sure if I disagree, I'll say so.

When some of the others around here disagree, they try to get you banned. At least I'm not that bad.
Your focus determines your reality.
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Originally posted by: Tiptup
As I said, Go-Mer often gets into arguments where he and the other person simply post nonsense and this usually seems like it is because Go-Mer can't let people have a differing opinion and because he enjoys it when people are frustrated with him. It's childish but not worthy of banning. Web forums that police everything to an extreme are lame. (Besides, if the other players didn't take part in those conversations they wouldn't go as far as they do.) He offers a different opinion to discuss and I think that's generally a good thing, even if we end up with a lot of off-topic threads.


Are you serious? Go-Mer can't let other people have differing opinions? wow.
"Among many things I have to be thankful for are you, the fans. I know that some of you haven't liked every single thing that I've done with the saga, and that you have a strong sense of ownership over all things Star Wars. But take that passion and devotion and channel it into a creative project of your own."
-George Lucas
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Let's just review the people who are trying to get me banned for just a moment.

Cable-X1 Starts this wonderful poll thread titled:
Do you believe that Go-Mer-Tonic purposely derails threads and thus is a troll and should be banned? He also makes the first post in the thread that says:
"Jay and the mods, I'm not starting anything with this. I don't expect anyone to get banned or whatever. I'd just like to see the general opinion. There's nothing wrong in that, I hope." So he's "starting" a thread asking whether or not people feel I should be banned, and with time to edit the original post, he makes a second post denying that he's "starting anything" and that he doesn't "expect anyone to get banned or whatever".

As the thread progresses, 3-4 people all give testimony about how much it sucks for them to have to "deal" with people who don't hate George Lucas, the SE versions or the Prequels, and that the only logical solution is to ban -me-.

As in the other thread like this that was started by Darth_Evil, someone suggested a tool that would allow them to not even display my posts if they didn't want to see them, but that idea was immediately ignored, and followed instead by this wonderful post from Darth_Evil.:Darth_Evil: Shut up you stupid fucker.

Here's my opinion on Go-Mer. He's a classic internet troll, and an excellent one at that. He's a textbook troll and anyone saying otherwise is a textbook idiot. He derails every thread he visits making it a PT argument so he can glorify his gay lover Lucas. I'll say it one more time. I AM OK WITH DIFFERING OPINIONS, but only when they add to the discussion, and don't derail it. Hell, who knows if Go-Mer even really thinks it. He's just trolling.

And this thread probably only has a few posts left before Jay closes it. Remember how I tried the same thing?

We need to ban Go-Mer. End of story.
If there is any doubt that I am being systematically demonized by Darth_Evil and Cable-X1 for the sole purposes of getting rid of a viewpoint they just personally would rather not see, I give you:Darth_Evil: Hey....I just had a happy thought.

This thread will no doubt be closed at one point or another, but if someone starts another thread about Gomer and another after that, the mods will realize its easier to ban Gomer than to keep closing threads bashing him. What a joyus day that will be.
Now I ask you, who is really finding it difficult to handle an opposing view?
Your focus determines your reality.
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Defend yourself all you want, Go-Mer. I guess you're just fooling the naive. But you are a TROLL, not simply someone with a different opinion.


For those who can't see the difference, congratulations must go out to Go-Mer for successul wool pulling ... over the eyes.
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If you think I'm a troll than I must applaud Cable-X1 and Darth_Evil for pulling the wool over your eyes.
Your focus determines your reality.
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My personal opinion has nothing to do with other members. It's based solely on my own read of your posting style, which is - imo - purposeful derailment of everything you touch, in an effort designed to antagonize and stir up trouble.

If it was not purposeful or designed, it is still the effect you are having ... and you have been put on notice about it many times ... so it is NOW purposeful and designed.

TROLL !


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Originally posted by: Nanner Split
I don't have a problem with Gomer. I think he should stay. Why? Because without a dissenting viewpoint, this board gets BORING!!


There is a lot of merit to this statement. But in reality, here is a Cliff's Notes version of what happened to the fanbase - and why discussion is sometimes lacking here:

In 1997, George Lucas bifurcated Star Wars fandom using a FABULOSO stamp. And he did it using the legally correct (though based in fallacy) argument of "artist's rights".

In 1999, Lucas bastardized the Star Wars universe, playing up the superficial, irrelevant similarities to the OUT while ignoring many of the crucial, timeless storytelling elements he used masterfully twenty-two years before. There was a young Obi-Wan Kenobi and other powerful Jedi running around (with lightsabers! George remembered!!). There was the younger Emperor (the less informed, young fans wondered if he was really Darth Sidious), the younger Yoda (with Down's syndrome), and some Jedi played by Liam Neeson that Obi-Wan forgot to mention to Luke. There was also a total jackass, made completely out of CGI, who ruined the movie. The Force was no longer accessible through dedication and training - it was issued to winners of the genetic lottery, carried through mitochondria. There was a thinly disguised Death Star, a space battle (such as it was), and a visually stunning though overly coreographed lightsaber battle wherein two of the better characters die.

Still, we said, Lucas is rusty. It'll get better.

It did get better, but Lucas' continuing panderance to the slovenly slack-jawed casual fan (who watch Star Wars for all the pretty colored flashing lights) eroded our confidence that Lucas had any ability left to tell a deep, layered story.

Still, we said, Lucas has been waiting decades to show Anakin's turn. He'll get it right this time.

And from my point of view, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


During these ten years, scores of people who can't tie shoes without a detailed manual logged on to sites like thefarce.net to browbeat people like us who value timeless stories with character development. "LUCAS IS TEH SHIT, LETS C U MAK A MOVIE ASSHOLE U GOT PWXNED BICTH!!!!!!11111" was the usual devastating argument. Indeed, those of us serving the Light Side really didn't discuss as much as defend ourselves - inasmuch as we even decided to stick around. How many OUT fans even bothered to stay in the SW internet community because of this wretched element ushered in by the SE? Not many, I would guess.

Meanwhile, one such person, Jay Sylvester, decided to create a safe haven (not a Sanctuary) for people with a sense of taste. And they came. Relieved that they found a nice place to come to, the discussions weren't so heated and frequent - we were just happy to find each other. Sure, for some, the absence of discussion made the site tame, but can you blame us? We're tired of fighting. Chances are all the OUT fans have a different of interpretation of this scene in Star Wars or that scene in Jedi, but it's not worth the trouble. We've put in those hours of aggravation at thefarce.net, and now it's time to relax.

But like legions of stormtroopers (only a lot stupider), the mouth-breathing yokels show up here from time to time and push our buttons. Because they are fucking assholes. They're not content to shout us down in friendly territory - they have to come piss in our yard too.

So to sum up, Nanner Split, I really understand where you are coming from. And when I feel like really discussing things, I go back into the heart of the Death Star (thefarce.net) and battle the Dark Side head on. But this place is our Yavin. And on Yavin, if things are boring, that can only be good.

Want to book yourself or a guest on THE VFP Show? PM me!

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So it's okay for you to "go into the heart of the Death Star" of TFN to debate opposing views (something that you call "battling the Dark Side head on") but when I do the same thing by coming here, I am trolling? Where do you get off?
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
My personal opinion has nothing to do with other members. It's based solely on my own read of your posting style, which is - imo - purposeful derailment of everything you touch, in an effort designed to antagonize and stir up trouble.

If it was not purposeful or designed, it is still the effect you are having ... and you have been put on notice about it many times ... so it is NOW purposeful and designed.

TROLL !
My posts are meant to challenge the status quo and offer alternatives to the mainstream way of looking at things. I have been put on notice that some of you -can't- handle a healthy debate, I just don't see how that is my responsibility. Perhaps you should be talking to the people who are actually taking threads off topic and turning them into "Go-Mer Witch Trials", simply because they would rather do that than to come up with a compelling counterpoint to something I've said.
Your focus determines your reality.