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Not sure what to talk about first. How about the current state of Catholicism?
http://ttrim.blogspot.com
On Christianity
Not sure what to talk about first. How about the current state of Catholicism?
http://ttrim.blogspot.com
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Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
How about the current state of Protestantism?
How about the current state of Protestantism?
Cool with me. What's on your mind?
http://ttrim.blogspot.com
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Originally posted by: kev
Adam, you probably don't even know anything about your religion or infact any so no point saying shit you don't understand
Adam, you probably don't even know anything about your religion or infact any so no point saying shit you don't understand
What? You don't even know me! Don't make assumptions that you can't back up.
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There's some really good articles on this topic here.
My personal arguments against a Christian god:
1) If the Christian god is truly omnipotent, it would mean he would know everything--past, present, and future--therefore; when he made us, he had already known that things would go to hell (no pun intended). If god is benevolent, he would not have made us just to see his creation suffer. This includes the fact that he created a world that is naturally destructive and violent (e.g. earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, hurricanes). Therefore, god is not moral, contrary to the Bible, so evil and suffering contradict existence of god.
2) If God gave us free will, he would not have placed upon us the condition that we must worship him and no other god. In fact, this gives perfect justification for going to war in the name of the "right" god. In the course of history, when you realize how many wars were fought in the name of god, there is a question of why God would want millions to die for him if he wanted people to do good and right in his name.
On the more scientific side:
3) Is the Universe logically possible?
"God is thought of a being who is all-powerful, but can he make a square-circle, or a triangular-square? If he can do these things, then it would push God into the realm of that which cannot possibly exist. This is why most philosophers understand the meaning of "omnipotence" as the ability to do that which is logically possible, and any questions as to whether He can do things that are logically impossible are thought to be meaningless.
This is why I want to ask, is it logically impossible for the universe to come from nothing? If it is logically impossible, then god cannot do it. However, if it is logically possible, then it could be reasonably said that the universe came on its' own. Then to postulate the idea of God might be explanatorily superfluous." -By Samuel Owens
4) God doesn't need a cause because it has existed forever.
In order to avoid the problem of the Universe being an uncaused cause some say that god has always existed and has therefore never been created: It therefore needs no cause. But I find this is an argument that can be used in conjunction with big bang theory to prove, again, that god is not likely to exist as a first cause. Because according to some Big Bang theories there has been an infinite number of cycles of Big Bang / Big Crunch (where the Universe ends in a big black hole after contracting) and that the Universe has existed forever. If it is possible for something to exist forever and not need a cause then it is likely to be the Universe, not God, and once again we can theorize that this is likely to be true because there would be no reason for god if it was true that something could exist with no cause.
Big Bang models describe the creation of all the dimensions of space including time itself, so that to ask "what happened before the big bang?" is meaningless in the same way as asking "what was god doing before it created time?". -By Vexen Crabtree
Personally, I am agnostic, despite strong arguments on either side. The word “agnostic” essential means “without knowledge.” Agnosticism is, I suppose, a more intellectually honest form of atheism. Atheism claims that God does not exist – an improvable position. Agnosticism argues that God’s existence cannot be proven or unproven – that it is impossible to know whether God exists, which is inarguably true.
Okay, I'm finished.
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Let me get this out of the way first: I am a non-denominational Christian. Which means that I do not adhere to any certain denomination of Christianity such as Catholicism or Protestantism, Baptist or Evangelical. The Bible is my guide first and foremost, and I am by no means a perfect example so don't expect me to be.
My personal arguments against a Christian god:
1) If the Christian god is truly omnipotent, it would mean he would know everything--past, present, and future--therefore; when he made us, he had already known that things would go to hell (no pun intended). If god is benevolent, he would not have made us just to see his creation suffer. This includes the fact that he created a world that is naturally destructive and violent (e.g. earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, hurricanes). Therefore, god is not moral, contrary to the Bible, so evil and suffering contradict existence of god.
Let's start at the beginning. If the Christian God is real, that means that He did in fact create a perfect world in the beginning. A world free of sin and suffering and death. But he gave us the ability to choose to follow Him or rebel and live against Him. He also gave angels like Lucifer the same freedom. His and man's choice to sin and reject God resulted in the world we live in today. Is this the way things will be forever? Hell no. This is merely a stepping stone in the abyss of eternity.
Well according to the Christian God, no other gods exist. So really, you've been given the free will to choose between God and eternal life or eternal death. This isn't like choosing between obeying your parents or rebelling and living your own life. This is really about choosing between good and evil.
In fact, this gives perfect justification for going to war in the name of the "right" god. In the course of history, when you realize how many wars were fought in the name of god, there is a question of why God would want millions to die for him if he wanted people to do good and right in his name.
1) If the Christian god is truly omnipotent, it would mean he would know everything--past, present, and future--therefore; when he made us, he had already known that things would go to hell (no pun intended). If god is benevolent, he would not have made us just to see his creation suffer. This includes the fact that he created a world that is naturally destructive and violent (e.g. earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, hurricanes). Therefore, god is not moral, contrary to the Bible, so evil and suffering contradict existence of god.
Let's start at the beginning. If the Christian God is real, that means that He did in fact create a perfect world in the beginning. A world free of sin and suffering and death. But he gave us the ability to choose to follow Him or rebel and live against Him. He also gave angels like Lucifer the same freedom. His and man's choice to sin and reject God resulted in the world we live in today. Is this the way things will be forever? Hell no. This is merely a stepping stone in the abyss of eternity.
2) If God gave us free will, he would not have placed upon us the condition that we must worship him and no other god.
Well according to the Christian God, no other gods exist. So really, you've been given the free will to choose between God and eternal life or eternal death. This isn't like choosing between obeying your parents or rebelling and living your own life. This is really about choosing between good and evil.
In fact, this gives perfect justification for going to war in the name of the "right" god. In the course of history, when you realize how many wars were fought in the name of god, there is a question of why God would want millions to die for him if he wanted people to do good and right in his name.
Who says all wars were faught with God's blessing? Again, it's really all about man's choice to do the right thing or do the wrong thing. Besides, believing in something strongly enough to go to war over it is what free will is all about. That has nothing to do with whether God exists or not. That just means that people are excersizing the gift they have been given. The choice they make is a completely different matter.
My Projects:
[Holiday Special Hybrid DVD v2]
[X0 Project]
[Backstroke of the West DVD]
[ROTS Theatrical DVD]
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Am I religious? Yes. Do I want to discuss my faith? Only with people who are interested; otherwise, I'd rather just focus on common beliefs.
Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.
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For example, the state of Protestantism and Catholicism, or discussion on Christian history. Things like that. This can also be a thread for people to ask questions about the faith, etc.
http://ttrim.blogspot.com
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Christians are first and foremost those who chose the Truth of Christ, that He died on the cross to pay our wage of sin (Romans 6:23), defeated death by raising on the third day (Romans 4:24). From a non believers point of view that all sounds ridiculous, impossible etc... But let me tell you something... On this side of Grace, it is an absolute, tangible, and joyful Truth that I would not trade with my life. The enlightenment through Christ is the most rewarding and humbling aspects of who I am. There is so much to it and is so complicated, yet so very simple. Of course there are so many that scoff and scowl at what they don’t understand. There are powers of this world that feed toward the hate of what we know as the Truth. Why do they care so much about belittling us in what we know to be true? Why is what the Christians believe drive so many to anger rather that just shrug their shoulders and go on with their lives like they treat other religions?
The problem with Christianity today is the lack of recognition of the objective reality of it. Much of Christianity is conforming to the worlds standards by molding, and making the Word of God to fit their needs. A Christ that wants to be personal desires a closeness through a relationship with Him through the Holy Spirit, not created personal in the aspect of conforming Him to YOUR needs. It all boils down to our need for Him... The deterioration of this world and our sinful nature draws us closer to Him. Our need for Him is key to His intentions and we are rewarded with our choice. We all have the choice to chose or reject that Truth.
Galatians 2: 20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
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Logos Software
Christianity Today
Online Bible
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Originally posted by: GundarkHunter
I generally don't like to discuss religion, as it tends to draw battle lines between people, like the Catholic/Protestant dynamic. The world would be a better place if we could focus on the beliefs we have in common, rather than our differences.
I generally don't like to discuss religion, as it tends to draw battle lines between people, like the Catholic/Protestant dynamic. The world would be a better place if we could focus on the beliefs we have in common, rather than our differences.
My thoughts exactly. Personally, I'm a confirmed Catholic, though I admit that I was more following my parents than doing so of my own choice. I'm fairly open with such things. However, I don't really like discussing it. Faith is a very personal thing, and not entirely something that is easy to discuss. Hence all the arguements it brings.
I believe that one should not try to force their views on others. If you don't believe in God, that's your choice. I don't look down on you for your beliefs, and ask you the same. I think we'd all be a lot better off if we focused on our own personal beliefs and not concern ourselves with the beliefs of others. It's their choice. i don't really believe in such things as a "One true religion", but that's me.
Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.
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Originally spoken by: George Carlin
Two commandments. 1: Don't kill, rape, or intentionally hurt anyone. and 2: Keep thy religion to thyself.
Two commandments. 1: Don't kill, rape, or intentionally hurt anyone. and 2: Keep thy religion to thyself.
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That's an extra hour of sleep every Sunday, which has done me more good than religion ever did.
The whole premarital sex thing has also worked out really well for me.
MTFBWY…A
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Religion in general, and Christianity in particular, should not be reduced to a question of utilitarianism. There is a moral law in this universe, as sure as their are physical laws that govern it's operation. In each case there are consequences to our actions. If we step off a bridge, we will plumet to our deaths. If we have an affair, there will be repurcussions in all of our relationships.
When discussing religion, ask yourself the following questions:
1. Where do we come from?
2. What has gone wrong with the world?
3. What can be done to fix it?
4. Why are we here?
Christianity answers these questions.
http://ttrim.blogspot.com
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I was willing to move into a more budhist area, more philosofically than religiously, and I do attend a budhist temple sometimes, mostly for meditation, but I also disagreed in some key issues of budhism.
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(1) God gave us the ability to make our own choices. This life is an opportunity to learn how to be better, kinder beings than we currently are, which requires the ability to make our own choices. If we can't make our own choices, we are nothing more than one of 7 billion pawns on a giant chess board called earth, moving at the behest of an all-powerful being who wants us all to turn out the same way. People are going to make good choices and bad choices. The key is knowing that our choices, no matter how insignificant, affect others.
(2) As before, God wants to challenge us to improve. We are brought into this life with certain challenges, and will meet more challenges along the way. Some of these challenges will be man-made; some will be there from the beginning. Again, how we respond to these challenges determines what we make of our lives.
I provide you with the following analogy: you want to learn how to ride a bike, and your parents would like to help you learn. Will you learn if every day, your parents continue to hold the back of your seat so you don't fall down? No. Is it better for you to learn through the experience of a few scraped knees? Yes. Is there going to be pain as a result? Yes. Will the pain make you a better person? Yes. Will you understand that teaching your children in that same way is best? More than likely.
Me, I take responsibility for my own actions. That is why I can continue to believe in God when tragedy surrounds me in this world.
Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.
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this thread i guarantee will be locked in the future.. lol
no offense to the person who started it, its a good thing that you want to talk about such a subject but its one that people NEVER agree on...
i hope things stay clean in here but i just wanted to voice my opinion...
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Not picking, just curious.
(Though typing this I just had the amusing thought that what if Bruce Campbell, circa 'Army of Darkness', was to play Adam in a movie? Imagine Eve standing there holding a bitten apple with the snake next to her and Bruce as Adam stepping back from her, looking up at God and saying "Whoa... wait a minute! I don't even KNOW these a-holes!!!"
