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[Official] All Star Wars films released in 4K HDR on Disney Plus: 4KSE with more changes — Page 2

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I’m still sort of marveling/laughing at the fact we live in a Maclunkey world now.

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yotsuya said:

CatBus said:

Also, I understand this isn’t at the top of everyone’s list, but are there any new subtitle/dubbing languages available? Can someone post a complete list?

I only went into that setting in two movies and I didn’t see anything unusual. Not very many choices. Spanish audio and English, Spanish, and Netherlands subtitles.

Thanks. This may vary depending on your region, may be backfilled later, or may just be a little anemic in its streaming form and will be filled out on a (hypothetical) UHD release. Sounds like there’s not a new Mandarin dub for me to jump on or anything.

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Broom Kid said:

I’m still sort of marveling/laughing at the fact we live in a Maclunkey world now.

You’ll see. Maclunkey is the new Rosebud. It’ll all make sense in the end.

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So, if this is a completely new unreleased master that, additional changes aside, is objectively better than the 2004/2011 master, how will this affect the Despecialized editions and projects like it? Is Harmy going to cancel the 3.0 of ESB and ROTJ, and then do a 4.0 of all three movies based off these new masters (assuming they don’t appear in higher bitrate form on 4k Blu-ray or something in a year or two)?

The Bunny, The Bunny, woah, I love The Bunny

Possessed said:
Danfun, do you also love the soup and the bread, or just the bunny?

SilverWook said:
Use of the bunny outside off topic is getting out of hand.
When outside off topic, use a link to the bunny if you really feel the need to invoke it.
Warnings will be next if some restraint is not shown.

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They’re absolutely going to appear w/ less compression and at a higher bit-rate on physical media next year. Whether people want to put their projects on pause for that, that’s a pretty big question.

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Danfun128 said:

So, if this is a completely new unreleased master that, additional changes aside, is objectively better than the 2004/2011 master, how will this affect the Despecialized editions and projects like it? Is Harmy going to cancel the 3.0 of ESB and ROTJ, and then do a 4.0 of all three movies based off these new masters (assuming they don’t appear in higher bitrate form on 4k Blu-ray or something in a year or two)?

That’s ultimately up to him, but they seem “better enough” to me to warrant the switch and do-over, even if he sticks to 1080p. Waiting for the UHD is also an option – and since he doesn’t have a whole hell of a lot of time anyway, he may end up waiting that long regardless.

The problem is that all kinds of minor new changes can have slipped in, based on how this was created (re-scanning the 97SE film elements, then re-doing the 2011SE changes over the top, and adding new inexplicable changes). The new color grade needs to be adjusted, even though it’s worlds better, and so on. Starting over using these sources would be a much bigger job than you may think.

IMO the DeEd’s are in a good enough space (well, except maybe Star Wars) where they can afford to wait. Being based on the Blu-ray (i.e. using negatives or IP’s as sources instead of projection prints), they still have the most fine detail of any preservation out there – even at 720p! – and the second two are very close to perfect already, save for the issues imported from the Blu-ray.

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Some people are saying that the new 4K master has more recomposited matte paintings and such than before, but I can’t confirm that one at the moment. So if that’s the case, it would mean more work for authentic despecializing.

a trolling bantha

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Just spitballing: would using the 2020 UHD and 4K77/4K83 to target a 1080p release (much like current DeSpec uses 1080p sources to target a 720p release) be a viable option here?

It leaves ESB sort of out in the cold until 4K80 gets finished, I guess. It’s kind of funny that the movie typically considered to be the best Star Wars movie is the one that’s taking the longest to get finished. Such is the way of things. The way of the Force…

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Empire was released in a period where there wasn’t much in the way of good, low-fade film stock available, so it’s tough to find prints in decent shape nowadays. Plus the 4K## team got SUPER lucky with an insanely high quality print for ROTJ, which is why 4K83 came so quickly.

a trolling bantha

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To clarify - I’m not criticizing, mocking, or denigrating their efforts in getting ESB out - I’m making more of a Murphy’s Law sort of joke about it. Of course the best one is the one that circumstances are conspiring to keep from us until last.

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Broom Kid said:

Just spitballing: would using the 2020 UHD and 4K77/4K83 to target a 1080p release (much like current DeSpec uses 1080p sources to target a 720p release) be a viable option here?

DeEd targeted 720p originally because it was based on HD cable broadcasts of the 04SE. DeEd actually predates the Blu-rays it’s now based on. When the 11SE Blu-rays finally came out, some of the other footage (particularly the GOUT) was pushing it to get upscaled to 720p, so 720p was a happy medium (it blends better). Only when the GOUT started to disappear as a source did Harmy start seriously considering 1080p. So a 1080p DeEd from 1080p Blu-rays is not only possible, it seemed to be the plan until just now.

Similarly, a 4K UHD could theoretically lead to a 4K DeEd. I’d expect 1080p would make a better happy medium at that point, because our projection print scans, while worlds better than the GOUT and available in 4K, still don’t even have 720p worth of non-grain fine detail and wouldn’t blend well with a 4K scan of negatives and IP’s at higher resolutions.

That’s all my opinion though. YMMV.

It leaves ESB sort of out in the cold until 4K80 gets finished, I guess. It’s kind of funny that the movie typically considered to be the best Star Wars movie is the one that’s taking the longest to get finished. Such is the way of things. The way of the Force…

No, there is another 😉

I don’t know if Poita’s collaborating with the 4K80 team at this point, but whatever preservation is based on his print is the one worth watching. I’m sure others mean well and may even finish first, but Poita spent the stupid amount of money, he’s got the stupid amount of equipment, and he’s got the stupid amount of expertise – and the print he’s got matches all that.

Harmy doesn’t need a complete film scan to make a DeEd. He just needs film scans for the bits he needs to despecialize. Poita’s 4K film print scan has already contributed to the current ESB release in that regard, IIRC. No need to wait.

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ChainsawAsh said:

Some people are saying that the new 4K master has more recomposited matte paintings and such than before, but I can’t confirm that one at the moment. So if that’s the case, it would mean more work for authentic despecializing.

No, just mix in the previous version for those shots. If you are after 4k, your choices are few, but if you are after HD, there is the new one, the BR, the HDTV, and the film scans. The effort Harmy went through for the original despecilized is no longer really necessary (unless you want to make the 97 SE version, and those are coming).

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this is why the 4k77,4k80 and 4k83 are GOAT

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So are we calling this one the 19SE yet? Dibs!

Let’s see, for Star Wars, ignoring some of the subtler differences (the cloudy composite/altered credits/natural home video variance between releases), we’ve got:

1977: original video (mono mix)
1977: original video (stereo mix)
1977: original video (six-channel mix)
1981 (3): “A New Hope” crawl and flyover, same three audio choices (crudely spliced onto 70mm reels, but still different)
1985: new audio mix, 1981 video
1993: new audio mix with alterations, 1981 video
1997SE: altered audio and video
2004SE: altered audio and video
GOUT: unique pairing of original video with 1993 audio
2011SE: altered audio and video
2019SE: altered audio and video

Star Wars is now weighing in at THIRTEEN distinct versions of the film. And that’s when you exclude the obscure ones!

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“GOUT: unique pairing of original video with 1993 audio”

Don’t you mean unique pairing of 1993 audio and video with 1997 crawl?

The Bunny, The Bunny, woah, I love The Bunny

Possessed said:
Danfun, do you also love the soup and the bread, or just the bunny?

SilverWook said:
Use of the bunny outside off topic is getting out of hand.
When outside off topic, use a link to the bunny if you really feel the need to invoke it.
Warnings will be next if some restraint is not shown.

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 (Edited)

Danfun128 said:

“GOUT: unique pairing of original video with 1993 audio”

Don’t you mean unique pairing of 1993 audio and video with 1997 crawl?

No, the GOUT featured the 77 crawl, definitely not the 97 crawl – that was its only saving grace. I’m considering the THX-remastered video still to be essentially the same as the 1981 video (ruddy-hued skintones and four-eyed stormtroopers being a hallmark of the 93 release, but too minor of a change for this list – more an artifact of the troubled home video production process than anything). But yes, it was the 93 video with the 77 crawl tacked on if you like, I just didn’t consider that a distinction worth making. Basically, I was thinking in terms of a seamless branching multi-audio mega-edition, how many cuts would there be? I’m not sure a DVNR-smeared cut would make the grade, but at least thirteen distinct versions certainly would.

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That’s what I meant, the 77 crawl. Must have mistyped.

The Bunny, The Bunny, woah, I love The Bunny

Possessed said:
Danfun, do you also love the soup and the bread, or just the bunny?

SilverWook said:
Use of the bunny outside off topic is getting out of hand.
When outside off topic, use a link to the bunny if you really feel the need to invoke it.
Warnings will be next if some restraint is not shown.

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Doubleofive’s got the definitive collection of SE visual changes, but does anyone have a list of audio changes? I honestly don’t even know what 90% of them are.

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I was honestly hoping something like this would happen, I’ve always been curious about what changes Lucas would make next time. With 4K77 and 4K83, alongside 4K80 and 4K99 in the works they can do anything as far as I’m concerned!

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DominicCobb said:

Doubleofive’s got the definitive collection of SE visual changes, but does anyone have a list of audio changes? I honestly don’t even know what 90% of them are.

I could probably do a highlights reel, but nothing definitive.

Star Wars
85: Threepio’s tractor beam lines added
93: Shattering glass sound effects added in cell bay shootout
97: All kinds of new audio for all the new scenes, most notably crappy knockoff dinosaurs make crappy knockoff dinosaur noises
04: Obi-Wan’s call that scares off the Sandpeople now sounds like the sound effects guy got drunk
11: Obi-Wan’s call that scares off the Sandpeople now sounds like some guy yelling in a parking lot
19: Greedo yells “Maclunkey!” just before Han shoots him

Empire
93: More-or-less good but still flawed attempt to remaster the 1980 audio, missing a sound effect for the snowspeeder crash
97: All kinds of new audio for all the new scenes, most notably the Emperor from the wrong film inexplicably screams offscreen as Luke falls in Cloud City
04: That bit where the Emperor from the wrong film inexplicably screams is removed, and Boba Fett is overdubbed by some dude
11: Can’t think of any audio content changes, but do you seriously think it’s likely there aren’t any?
19: Vader yells “Maclunkey!” just before Han shoots at him

Jedi
93: More-or-less good remaster of 1983 audio, with very slight content differences (thunder during transition to Yoda’s hut)
97: All kinds of new audio for all the new scenes, most notably Jabba’s palace is interrupted by a horrifying music video
04: Jar-Jar yells at the end of the film
11: That guy from Shattered Glass inexplicably screams “No! No!” offscreen as Vader starts to throw the Emperor into the reactor
19: The Sarlacc yells “Maclunkey!” just before Han shoots its tentacle



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CatBus said:

So are we calling this one the 19SE yet? Dibs!

Let’s see, for Star Wars, ignoring some of the subtler differences (the cloudy composite/altered credits/natural home video variance between releases), we’ve got:

1977: original video (mono mix)
1977: original video (stereo mix)
1977: original video (six-channel mix)
1981 (3): “A New Hope” crawl and flyover, same three audio choices (crudely spliced onto 70mm reels, but still different)
1985: new audio mix, 1981 video
1993: new audio mix with alterations, 1981 video
1997SE: altered audio and video
2004SE: altered audio and video
GOUT: unique pairing of original video with 1993 audio
2011SE: altered audio and video
2019SE: altered audio and video

Star Wars is now weighing in at THIRTEEN distinct versions of the film. And that’s when you exclude the obscure ones!

I’m hesitant calling anything Special Edition that isn’t actually the Special Edition, from 1997. To me, they are the SE, DVD edition, BD edition and now this 4K edition.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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 (Edited)

CatBus said:

So are we calling this one the 19SE yet? Dibs!

Let’s see, for Star Wars, ignoring some of the subtler differences (the cloudy composite/altered credits/natural home video variance between releases), we’ve got:

1977: original video (mono mix)
1977: original video (stereo mix)
1977: original video (six-channel mix)
1981 (3): “A New Hope” crawl and flyover, same three audio choices (crudely spliced onto 70mm reels, but still different)
1985: new audio mix, 1981 video
1993: new audio mix with alterations, 1981 video
1997SE: altered audio and video
2004SE: altered audio and video
GOUT: unique pairing of original video with 1993 audio
2011SE: altered audio and video
2019SE: altered audio and video

Star Wars is now weighing in at THIRTEEN distinct versions of the film. And that’s when you exclude the obscure ones!

Don’t forget that the first run had three different FX shots and different end credits. So there are 2 may 1977 versions and 2 or 3 later 1977 versions. And the pre Definitive Collection English video had the same 3 different FX shots with the later end credits and the 1981 crawl. The early releases used the 1977 stereo or mono audio. The 1985 cut used the same hybrid video. So far all the 35 mm prints (chemical and Technicolor) have been from the later 1977 run. Only Puggo and Moth3r’s bootleg have the full original May 1977 edit. The clue to the timing are the foreign language versions with all match the alter 1977 cut and were done at about the same time. And the GOUT is just the Definitive Collection version with the original crawl tacked on… video wise it matches the later 1977 release.

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So I’m assuming that Hayden is still at the end of ROTJ??

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LexX said:

I’m hesitant calling anything Special Edition that isn’t actually the Special Edition, from 1997. To me, they are the SE, DVD edition, BD edition and now this 4K edition.

I salute, and thank you.

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LexX said:

CatBus said:

So are we calling this one the 19SE yet? Dibs!

Let’s see, for Star Wars, ignoring some of the subtler differences (the cloudy composite/altered credits/natural home video variance between releases), we’ve got:

1977: original video (mono mix)
1977: original video (stereo mix)
1977: original video (six-channel mix)
1981 (3): “A New Hope” crawl and flyover, same three audio choices (crudely spliced onto 70mm reels, but still different)
1985: new audio mix, 1981 video
1993: new audio mix with alterations, 1981 video
1997SE: altered audio and video
2004SE: altered audio and video
GOUT: unique pairing of original video with 1993 audio
2011SE: altered audio and video
2019SE: altered audio and video

Star Wars is now weighing in at THIRTEEN distinct versions of the film. And that’s when you exclude the obscure ones!

I’m hesitant calling anything Special Edition that isn’t actually the Special Edition, from 1997. To me, they are the SE, DVD edition, BD edition and now this 4K edition.

For me Special Edition isn’t a particular release, it’s (essentially) a different set of films. More like a remake than a video release. So all of the pre-97 changes are alternate versions of one set of films (the Original Trilogy), and all of the post-97 changes are alternate versions of another set of films (the Special Editions). Just as I include the 1993 release as part of the OOT, I include the 2019 release as part of the SE. Words mean different things to different people, YMMV.

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