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OT Special Edition haters

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Ok, watching the SW SEs on Cinemax this weekend, outside of the changes tha tmost people dispise (Han shooting first, Anakin's Force Ghost issue, Jedi Rocks, Boba in ANH), what else do you dislike/hate about it?
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Oh boy, we've never talked about this before.

I hate that it was on Cinemax instead of HBO. It's not like I'd watch more than a couple hours of the whole "saga," but I would've liked to have seen some of the SSE-OT in HD.
"It's the stoned movie you don't have to be stoned for." -- Tom Shales on Star Wars
Scruffy's gonna die the way he lived.
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The change that irks me the most is the change from a classic: (from Empire)

Luke: (after R2 got spat out by Dagobah monster) You're lucky you don't taste too good.

to the standard and less fun:

Luke: (after R2 got spat out by Dagobah monster) You're lucky you got out of there.

That irked me more than Jabba in ANH or Greedo getting the first shot.

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monkeyjb1988 said:

The change that irks me the most is the change from a classic: (from Empire)

Luke: (after R2 got spat out by Dagobah monster) You're lucky you don't taste too good.

to the standard and less fun:

Luke: (after R2 got spat out by Dagobah monster) You're lucky you got out of there.

That irked me more than Jabba in ANH or Greedo getting the first shot.

That's not a Special Edition change, though. Both of those versions existed pre-SE.

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monkeyjb1988 said:

The change that irks me the most is the change from a classic: (from Empire)

Luke: (after R2 got spat out by Dagobah monster) You're lucky you don't taste too good.

to the standard and less fun:

Luke: (after R2 got spat out by Dagobah monster) You're lucky you got out of there.

That irked me more than Jabba in ANH or Greedo getting the first shot.

 Mielr is right.  The "your lucky you got out of there" line is from the theatrical 70mm mix.  The "Your lucky you don't taste very good" is from the 35mm version.  the 35mm version is more well-known because it was the sound mix released on video.  But the DVD line is actually original as well, even if it isn't as funny.

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The "you're lucky you don't taste very good" line was also released on video. The "hologram" VHS set has it. 

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 (Edited)

Okay lets get one thing straight once and for all. That piece of garbage lucas unleashed on the world in 1997 is not the original trilogy. the original trilogy was released between 1977-1983 and did not need changing. It made tons of money won lots of academy awards and pretty much was loved universally by film fans of any ilk. Kids and parents both equally loved the movies. Even old timers who remembered the golden age of hollywood loved the series.

 

Millions of people loved the movies except one man hated them George Lucas, so he went back hacked them up and butchered them for his own reasons.  I would not mind if this was a personal fan edit by lucas that he watched in his own home but instead has buried the originals forever.  The gout was the last nail in the coffin.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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Mielr said:

monkeyjb1988 said:

The change that irks me the most is the change from a classic: (from Empire)

Luke: (after R2 got spat out by Dagobah monster) You're lucky you don't taste too good.

to the standard and less fun:

Luke: (after R2 got spat out by Dagobah monster) You're lucky you got out of there.

That irked me more than Jabba in ANH or Greedo getting the first shot.

That's not a Special Edition change, though. Both of those versions existed pre-SE.

 I still didn't like it. It was listed on a comparison site, so I thought it was a SE change. Still my least favorite.

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the botched audio and picture.

 

that shot where the lightsabers cross in front of the emporer's face is an absolute disgrace. if there was any justice, Lucas would be out on the streets eating garbage right now for approving that (among the other things you allready mentioned)

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I hate that special effects were spruced up digitally, eliminating of its rightful spot in history.  It is no longer possible to watch Star Wars and get any idea what a masterpiece it was in 1977, no way to appreciate the techniques that were used, no way to do comparisons with other films that came before, because it is no longer a 1977 movie.

Suppose, for example, you were to line up the movies that won each years' Academy Award for special effects, in chronological order.  One should be able to study and assess techniques available at the times, as well as to appreciate the artistry used given the limitations of the time. That GL was able to do SO much with so comparatively little (by today's standards) is one of the hallmarks of the film. By going in and adding a bunch of digital changes, he has effectively masked his own mastery and made the film less clearly the masterpiece it was.

Films like Metropolis, Wizard of Oz, 2001, and Star Wars are cinematic milestones and should be considered sacred.  The whole idea that the SE replaces the OT makes me sick to my stomach - its like rewriting history.

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 (Edited)

It isn't just re-writing history--to me the models and older effects are consistent with the look and feel of the films. You know, kind of down to earth, gritty, low tech, dated and definitely not of the 21st century ("timeless" as they be), etc. Maybe it would fit in if the new effects were photorealistic--that might actually work, because then the entire film would be like it was all just a documentary. The only shot that even comes close to this feel is that widely-seen 180 degree pan following the X-wings approaching the Death Star. But the CG just looks like CG. Why replace the models if you're only going to replace it with something thats equally fake--and not only equally fake, but way inconsistent? Even when the odd model shot looked dated it still fit in with the ambiance of the film, a quality that the additions do not have, its like splicing video game footage into Lawrence of Arabia.

So, to me, even the best part of the SE--enhancing the older effects--does not work, thus there is no reason to watch the SE except to see what this fun little experiment was in 1997 to try to put modern effects into an old movie for a special anniversary celebration. Because thats all the SE really is.

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"When George went back and put new creatures into the original Star Wars, I find that disturbing. It’s a revision of history. That bothers me."

--James Cameron, Entertainment Weekly, April 2010

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 (Edited)

i can remember back to pre-'97 when the first rumours about the SE started floating around. It was a time when we had all grown up and a new generation had only ever seen it on VHS or on the TV. i, along with many of my friends, were really excited about being able to Star Wars again on the big screen, even though it would be a different version. We didn't care about this at all. I was able to take my 3 daughters to the cinema to experience what i had experienced when i was a kid. They loved it and so did i. there were some additions i didn't like, Greedo shooting first for instance, but they were minor niggles. Star Wars fandom hit a high again and no one i knew hated the SE trilogy at the time. A whole new generation became Star Wars fans. The VHS box set came out (i didn't have a laserdisc player back then) and it sat along side my OUT box set. I could happily watch both versions without any problem and the quality was the same.

But years later things turned sour.

The day GL said that the SE were now the definitive versions and that the OUT doesn't exist in his mind became the turning point for the hatred of the SE to begin. Minor niggles became hated additions.

Then we were told that the OUT would never be released ever again and only ever the SE. The hatred again grew among fans. Then the insult of the 2004 DVD set: terrible colouring, additions that were far worse than anything (apart from Han not being the only one to shoot, thus changing his character) that was added in '97, screwed up soundtracks that they tried to tell us that we were all wrong in that all the screw ups were a creative decision, but to top it all, the SE was now available with a high quality format (colouring aside) but the OUT was nowhere to be seen. Where was the high quality transfer the version that won all the awards and revolutionised the FX industry deserved? nowhere to be seen. Then the 30th anniversary was all but ignored

Now the SE was no longer the fun alternative to our beloved trilogy but something that became thrust down our throats as the only version  DVD quality, or higher, that was restored and we would ever be allowed to see.  Then the insult to top all insults happened: the GOUT. What a great way to thank all the loyal Star Wars fans that have been there from the start. I think not.

What happened to the company that always pushed for the best image & sound quality possible, setting industry standards? The Lucasfilm that existed pre '97 would never have released such a sub-standard product as the GOUT.

My point is this: If GL had acknowledged the fact that OUT is a masterpiece that should be preserved in the highest quality alongside the SE, with the SE just being a fun alternative experience, had released both versions in the same high quality and never said that the SE is the only version we are allowed to see, would there be the hatred for the SE that exists now? i would have to say no. You would either like the SE or not, but at least you could watch the OUT on your large screen TVs with great picture quality and chose to ignore the SE if you wish.

Way to go George. You locked yourself away in your little bubble surrounding yourself with "yes" men and lost touch of all reality. How can you ignore the things that gave you what you have today: the Fans and the OUT. Look what you accomplished with such a limited budget. You should be proud of that and not be ashamed that a few FX shots didn't look perfect or that you couldn't do a few things back then (i'm ignoring any additions to ESB or ROTJ here). It was a masterpiece with all its flaws. they didn't bother us back then and they don't bother us now.

With the Blu-Ray releases of movies like Close Encounters & Blade Runner on Blu-ray with all the different versions with the same high  quality transfer now available wouldn't this be the time to just thanks the fans for what they have given you and give us what we want?

So would anyone else not hate the SE as much as they do now if GL hadn't buried the OUT and told us that the SE will be the only version that will exsist from now on?

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

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my experience is pretty much the opposite of most peoples here..

i've never owned a vcr, never bought a videotape, never rented a movie.......................EVER........................

 

when i decided to jump into the video market, in the late 90's, it was straight to laserdisc,

there was no question that all my high-tech friends had both vhs/beta/and laserdiscs later on

because IT was the highest quality possible at the time...

 

since i joined the laserdisc market late, although it was still considered semi-videophile equipment,

there was no issues here in the US, finding players, or discs...............widescreen, full screen , criterion etc..........

 

it was a revelation to me, and i totally jumped on buying every cool laserdisc i could think of, and could find

(i never used mail order), and of course i didn't know about the internet until much later...

 

well, i bought the original star wars series in letterboxed format, and still have them to this day, in excellent quality, sound and picture...

skip a few years ahead.......................i heard something about thx versions coming out (the faces set), but didn't get.....i also saw that

there was  a definitive collectors box set with AMAZING SOUND and picture quality, but it was too expensive at the time.............

----------------------------------------time passed---------------------------------------------------------

i watched the discs a couple of times, and then they were put away into storage for another decade......................

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i kept getting the star wars insider magazine, and amazingly i read all about the SE versions coming out, and

was extremely happy, and excited.................................i counted the days, and was there opening day, for

all 3 movies again............................................................which would be the 3rd time for star wars, the 2nd time for empire,

and the 2nd time to see jedi in the movie theaters........................................i can't describe what a rush it was to see it,

and enjoy it with sold out crowds, families bringing their kids etc..........................i still remember each movie, and each day.....

=========================================================================================

a lot more time passed ------------------------------------several years later---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

somehow i stumbled across this board, and read that people were making their own conversions of laserdiscs onto some new

format called a 'dvd'.........................................i wondered what that was, and if it was any better...................much to my horror,

i discover how this evil format was going to take over from laserdiscs, and set back the future of video several years..........

i quickly forgot about this site, and the dvd's...............

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------a few years ago-----------------------------------------------

i gave in , and finally bought a 'dvd' player........................apparently star wars had come out for it.....finally, so i ended up getting

the box set with SE versions, and was happy enough with them, but it didn't have the originals...hmm.didn't matter, i had them

on laserdisc............................and then a few more years passed and they were released again, with the originals, so i picked it

up again.....................with about the same results...................ok, so know i have a version thats the same as the laserdiscs......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------a few months ago----------------------------------------------

came back to this board, saw adywans ep4:revisited, and was very impressed, then i started reading up on all the versions,

the changes, the formats, etc......................................................................so i went on a buying spree, and now have

pretty much every widescreen version (us, and japanese), every boxed laserdisc set, the definitive set, the faces set, every

fullscreen, and widescreen DVD, in NTSC, and PAL................all the documentaries, and every original release on laserdisc,

in full screen, widescreen, CAV, and CLV...............(since most of these are pretty old, i picked them all up used, and for dirt cheap prices)...

after all this, i can't thank Lucasfilm enough for putting out the amazing quality THX faces versions, the Japanese boxed laserdisc sets,

and the definitive collections................................

 

i have more versions of the Original trilogy than i could ever watch....................................this is probably the best time in history to be a star wars

fan for me...................................and on top of that getting all the movies again in 720p, 1080p, mkv's, avi's, and WMV's completely free has been

probably the most eye opening experience i have ever had..................

 

well done Lucasfilm, and thanks again George for all the hard work, and now i'm finally getting a chance to watch it all..

 

later

-1

[no GOUT in CED?-> GOUT CED]

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I have always said, and will say it to this day, Lucas did not need to touch the OOT movies.  Now because of his updates, he has put a certain section of the fanbase in the state of mind of wanting more updates, more new effects, etc.   The bottom line is before 1997, nobody I know thought of Star Wars, Empire, or Jedi as needing to be updated, the thought just never crossed our minds.  Lucas could have made the PT, and kept the OOT, and it would have worked for any fan who wanted them to work.  Nobody is going to not watch the PT cause it doesn't match up visually with the OT, and vice versa.  Any SW fan is going to watch any of the movies simply because they enjoy them, whether it just be SW, or the OOT, or all 6 movies, and no amount of updates is going to grab a new fanbase.  Seriously, was anyone going to never watch Empire again because Cloud City wasn't spruced up like it is now?  The SE never needed to happen, because everything is a frame of reference, and once you start changing actors, and updating Jabba in ANH everytime around, you really open up a can of worms.  I don't hate the SE, I just think they were unneccesary, and I believe the 6 films stand on their own, and each SW fan can take em or leave em.

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Look skyjedi2005 George Lucas is a flimmaker and he has the right to change the flims if he wants to so stop complaning. I get so tired of people who don't like the re-stored star wars trilogy speical edition. Just stop complaning about it ok. And I agree with you adywan when all the star wars flims comes out on blu-ray eventually for Epiosodes 4,5. and 6 release all the versions of the flims not just the SE.

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They are Lucas' movies. Love em or leave em. Ive been force to listen to people complain about HIS property since 1997 and I'm sick to death of it. If you want the originals so bad watch them on an old VHS without stereo. (First day of release only had mono mixes) The quality of the playback on those old VCRs and the contiuing degrading quality of your VHS tapes should be pretty close to the quality you experienced in a theater in 77.

They arent' your movies, they are Lucas'. Don't like it? Stop complaining about and move on to something you do like. I love the SE and Im sick to death of all the jaded haters.

You dont have to watch, you don't have to buy it. I've never understood the Special Edition hatred, they added far more to the movies then they took away.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain.
"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes"...James Feibleman (1904-1987)
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AxiaEuxine said:

The quality of the playback on those old VCRs and the contiuing degrading quality of your VHS tapes should be pretty close to the quality you experienced in a theater in 77.

Let me guess... you weren't there, were you?

"Close the blast doors!"
Puggo’s website | Rescuing Star Wars

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AxiaEuxine said:

They are Lucas' movies. Love em or leave em. Ive been force to listen to people complain about HIS property since 1997 and I'm sick to death of it. If you want the originals so bad watch them on an old VHS without stereo. (First day of release only had mono mixes) The quality of the playback on those old VCRs and the contiuing degrading quality of your VHS tapes should be pretty close to the quality you experienced in a theater in 77.

They arent' your movies, they are Lucas'. Don't like it? Stop complaining about and move on to something you do like. I love the SE and Im sick to death of all the jaded haters.

You dont have to watch, you don't have to buy it. I've never understood the Special Edition hatred, they added far more to the movies then they took away.

Great post. I'm impressed anyone had the balls to say this. I liked them too. The Greedo shootin thing I don't think was a big deal, aside from making Greedo look like a retarded bounty hunter who can't aim. Also, the change to the Emperor was good, but I think something along the lines of what Ady pulled off would've been better. And I personally liked the new ending of ROTJ. Now I do believe both SE and OOT should be released but I'm not gonna say I hate the Special Edition, cause I don't. I even liked the voice change of Boba. Yes I said it. It just makes sense.

 

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Nice balls, sure... just a completely inaccurate post. 

Yeah, puggo pretty much covered the video inaccuracies.  I guess I'll do the audio since that statement is wrong too.  Can't have misinformation spreading, can we?  The stereo was the first release, and the mono was the last of the original three sound mixes to be released.  Anecdotal evidence states that George was working on the mono mix around the time the film was released.

Just wanted to point that out to you.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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 (Edited)

Whoops...double post.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:
AxiaEuxine said:

The quality of the playback on those old VCRs and the contiuing degrading quality of your VHS tapes should be pretty close to the quality you experienced in a theater in 77.

Let me guess... you weren't there, were you?

 

 Wrong sir/madam, Im in my late 30's and I WAS there, Ive been a fan ever since they first hit the scene.

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain.
"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes"...James Feibleman (1904-1987)
www . axia . ws/axia

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 (Edited)
Gaffer Tape said:

The stereo was the first release, and the mono was the last of the original three sound mixes to be released. 

 

 Okay, if Im wrong on this then I apologise but it really wasnt the focus of my point. But If Im wrong Im the first to admit it...now I just have to find that thing I read where he was working on a mix the day of release... hmm

 

Edit, okay I found it in Rinzler's the making of Star Wars book and you are right...my bad. I must have misread it elsewhere years ago. Now I know everything. :)

 

(I still prefer the SE to the OT, but my fave edition is now ANHR, EPV adm edit, EPVI ADM edit, and the PT ADM extended editions)

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain.
"A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes"...James Feibleman (1904-1987)
www . axia . ws/axia