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OK, the DVDs are coming...so how bad are they going to look?

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Well, it seems unlikely that we're going to get anamorphic DVD transfers of the OT (at least this time around), so let's talk turkey.

Exactly how bad are these DVDs going to look? Can we expect any improvement over the laserdiscs? Is there any chance that the LD masters are actually of a higher resolution than the LDs themselves, and that there might actually be a slight improvement when they're transferred to DVD?

I read an interview with John Lowry at Lowry Digital, and he said that when they were making the SE DVDs, that the material they used was actually scanned at a much higher resolution than was actually needed. Could this also be the case with the LD masters? What was the technology like in 1993? Are the LD masters digital or analog?

Discuss.

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I made a thread about this a few weeks ago, about watching all my non-anamorphic DVD's. I was honest, and said they weren't that bad, and I believe just because of DVD resolution, even a non-anamorphic image will look alot better than Laserdisk.

I put in about 15 movies that were non-anamorphic, and was able to compare them with some of the same titles that were anamorphic, and yes there is a difference, but not a huge difference where it is that noticeable, except for someone who really knows his stuff. Now in saying all this, I am not saying the images were great, the fleshtones were a little faded, and the colors didn't jump out at me, but I am dead serious when I mean they were actually not that bad, in fact they were pretty good.

Do I want Anamorphic? Yes. Do I think they would look 10 times better in Anamorphic? Of course. But this is all we have now, and my bootlegs always freeze up, and I am tired of looking on EBAY for new ones, and I just can't stomach Hayden at the end of ROTJ as force ghost, cause I shake my head everytime.

By the way, I have a 50" RCA HDTV (Widescreen). So the fact that is non-anamorphic really affects me.

I still respect someone who isn't buying the DVD's out of pure principle.
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Originally posted by: CO

I still respect someone who isn't buying the DVD's out of pure principle.


Yo, right here. If they're going to half-ass it after making such a big deal, I'll stick with the VHS.

http://jgtwo.wordpress.com

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Originally posted by: CO
I made a thread about this a few weeks ago, about watching all my non-anamorphic DVD's. I was honest, and said they weren't that bad, and I believe just because of DVD resolution, even a non-anamorphic image will look alot better than Laserdisk.

I put in about 15 movies that were non-anamorphic, and was able to compare them with some of the same titles that were anamorphic, and yes there is a difference, but not a huge difference where it is that noticeable, except for someone who really knows his stuff. Now in saying all this, I am not saying the images were great, the fleshtones were a little faded, and the colors didn't jump out at me, but I am dead serious when I mean they were actually not that bad, in fact they were pretty good.

Do I want Anamorphic? Yes. Do I think they would look 10 times better in Anamorphic? Of course. But this is all we have now, and my bootlegs always freeze up, and I am tired of looking on EBAY for new ones, and I just can't stomach Hayden at the end of ROTJ as force ghost, cause I shake my head everytime.

By the way, I have a 50" RCA HDTV (Widescreen). So the fact that is non-anamorphic really affects me.

I still respect someone who isn't buying the DVD's out of pure principle.
Thanks for that. I agree with you about ROTJ - I can't bring myself to watch the mess that was made of that movie on the DVD. I have the LaserDiscs of the OT (the "faces" CLV versions), and I've made my own DVDs of them (using one DVD per LD side in HQ mode for best quality). I don't yet have a widescreen TV, so the issue doesn't affect me that much- yet. I do plan on buying a widescreen TV in the future. My current 4:3 TV does have a widescreen mode for 16:9 DVDs, but I don't use it that often.

I know that these DVDs aren't going to be as good as anamorphic - by using so many of the available resolution lines for the letterbox bars, they simply can't be, but I was just wondering if there's going to be any improvement, in direct comparison to my LDs (since the same masters are being used).

Originally posted by: jturd
Originally posted by: CO

I still respect someone who isn't buying the DVD's out of pure principle.


Yo, right here. If they're going to half-ass it after making such a big deal, I'll stick with the VHS.

If all you have is the VHS, then you should really get the DVDs. For those of us who own the LDs and a LD player- the benefit is less clear, but even a non-anamorphic transfer will be a huge improvement over VHS, for a lot less money than you would spend on the LDs and a decent LD player.

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Mielr, read through some of the other threads here for more detailed answers to your questions. The quality issue has been discussed at length.
In short, the DVDs will offer a higher-quality picture than the LDs. The tape masters are digital, but standard definition (hence the letterbox DVDs).
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will there be four black bars if I would play this on a computer? Cause Im uneasy owning a product that got two stars out of 5 from amazon.
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Yes, on a computer, you would have four black bars... well, assuming it's a wide screen, like mine is. That would render it quite tiny on my computer (which is what I primarily use for watching TV and movies when I'm at school).

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: generalfrevious
will there be four black bars if I would play this on a computer? Cause Im uneasy owning a product that got two stars out of 5 from amazon.
You can always rent them from Netflix first, before you buy them.

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Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Yes, on a computer, you would have four black bars... well, assuming it's a wide screen, like mine is. That would render it quite tiny on my computer (which is what I primarily use for watching TV and movies when I'm at school).


Some software DVD players have a zoom function that allows you to get rid of the vertical black bars. The Apple DVD Player on Mac OS X (10.4), for example...

Han: Hey Lando! You kept your promise, right? Not a scratch?
Lando: Well, what’s left of her isn’t scratched. All the scratched parts got knocked off along the way.
Han (exasperated): Knocked off?!

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Originally posted by: Z6PO
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Yes, on a computer, you would have four black bars... well, assuming it's a wide screen, like mine is. That would render it quite tiny on my computer (which is what I primarily use for watching TV and movies when I'm at school).


Some software DVD players have a zoom function that allows you to get rid of the vertical black bars. The Apple DVD Player on Mac OS X (10.4), for example...
Who has widescreen computer monitors anyway? Movies will look better on TV's then on monitors.
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Originally posted by: boris
Originally posted by: Z6PO
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Yes, on a computer, you would have four black bars... well, assuming it's a wide screen, like mine is. That would render it quite tiny on my computer (which is what I primarily use for watching TV and movies when I'm at school).


Some software DVD players have a zoom function that allows you to get rid of the vertical black bars. The Apple DVD Player on Mac OS X (10.4), for example...
Who has widescreen computer monitors anyway? Movies will look better on TV's then on monitors.


People that use Apple computers? Apple monitors and Apple notebooks screens are all widescreens (the aspect ratio is 16:10, on all models).

As to movies looking better on a TV than a monitor, I don't see why there should be a difference.

Han: Hey Lando! You kept your promise, right? Not a scratch?
Lando: Well, what’s left of her isn’t scratched. All the scratched parts got knocked off along the way.
Han (exasperated): Knocked off?!

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I know on my monitor even anamorphic DVDs show their limitations with compression artifiacting and what not. I can't help but worry that these will look many times worse.
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Originally posted by: Z6PO
Originally posted by: boris
Originally posted by: Z6PO
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Yes, on a computer, you would have four black bars... well, assuming it's a wide screen, like mine is. That would render it quite tiny on my computer (which is what I primarily use for watching TV and movies when I'm at school).

Some software DVD players have a zoom function that allows you to get rid of the vertical black bars. The Apple DVD Player on Mac OS X (10.4), for example...
Who has widescreen computer monitors anyway? Movies will look better on TV's then on monitors.


People that use Apple computers? Apple monitors and Apple notebooks screens are all widescreens (the aspect ratio is 16:10, on all models).

As to movies looking better on a TV than a monitor, I don't see why there should be a difference.


I don't know about Apple, but mine's a Compaq with a widescreen. And aren't computer monitors supposed to have a higher resolution than televisions anyway? I suppose that's just CT monitors compared to SD TVs, right? Well, in any case, I have an HD screen on my computer...

I know on my monitor even anamorphic DVDs show their limitations with compression artifiacting and what not. I can't help but worry that these will look many times worse.


Yeah, my monitor picks up grain and artifacting a lot worse than a regular screen as well.

There is no lingerie in space…

C3PX said: Gaffer is like that hot girl in high school that you think you have a chance with even though she is way out of your league because she is sweet and not a stuck up bitch who pretends you don’t exist… then one day you spot her making out with some skinny twerp, only on second glance you realize it is the goth girl who always sits in the back of class; at that moment it dawns on you why she is never seen hanging off the arm of any of the jocks… and you realize, damn, she really is unobtainable after all. Not that that is going to stop you from dreaming… Only in this case, Gaffer is actually a guy.

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Originally posted by: Z6PO

People that use Apple computers? Apple monitors and Apple notebooks screens are all widescreens (the aspect ratio is 16:10, on all models).

As to movies looking better on a TV than a monitor, I don't see why there should be a difference.

I read somewhere once that DVDs don't look their best on computer monitors because the pixels on a computer are a different shape than those on a TV. I don't know how much truth there is to that, though.

Some of my DVDs look gorgeous on my computer, some don't. The DVDs I record myself don't look good when played on my computer, for some reason- lots of motion artifacts, etc., but look great when played on my TV (I have an old Apple iMac and an early version of Apple DVD player, BTW).

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Well I put a letterbox DVD into my computer this morning, and I did not see four bars.
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Originally posted by: Mielr
I read somewhere once that DVDs don't look their best on computer monitors because the pixels on a computer are a different shape than those on a TV. I don't know how much truth there is to that, though.

Some of my DVDs look gorgeous on my computer, some don't. The DVDs I record myself don't look good when played on my computer, for some reason- lots of motion artifacts, etc., but look great when played on my TV (I have an old Apple iMac and an early version of Apple DVD player, BTW).
Yep that's right. When you watch a DVD on a computer it suffers from interpolation because "TV" resolutions aren't supported by standard PC resolutions, whether it's anamorphic or non-anamorphic, PAL or NTSC. Computer monitors have "square" pixels (though in some modes this can be altered - if you do this photos and such will be in their incorrect aspect ratio).
Some were not blessed with brains.
<blockquote>Originally posted by: BadAssKeith

You are passing up on a great opportunity to makes lots of money,
make Lucas lose a lot of his money
and make him look bad to the entire world
and you could be well known and liked

None of us here like Lucas or Lucasfilm.
I have death wishes on Lucas and Macullum.
we could all probably get 10s of thousands of dollars!
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Time
Originally posted by: generalfrevious
Well I put a letterbox DVD into my computer this morning, and I did not see four bars.
Do you have a widescreen monitor or a 4:3 monitor? You will only see 4 bars if the letterbox (not anamorphic) DVD is shown on a widescreen monitor.

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Originally posted by: boris
Originally posted by: Mielr
I read somewhere once that DVDs don't look their best on computer monitors because the pixels on a computer are a different shape than those on a TV. I don't know how much truth there is to that, though.

Some of my DVDs look gorgeous on my computer, some don't. The DVDs I record myself don't look good when played on my computer, for some reason- lots of motion artifacts, etc., but look great when played on my TV (I have an old Apple iMac and an early version of Apple DVD player, BTW).
Yep that's right. When you watch a DVD on a computer it suffers from interpolation because "TV" resolutions aren't supported by standard PC resolutions, whether it's anamorphic or non-anamorphic, PAL or NTSC. Computer monitors have "square" pixels (though in some modes this can be altered - if you do this photos and such will be in their incorrect aspect ratio).


This is only true if you watch DVD on an analog TV. Most modern TV, even CRT ones, are digital now. So the signal coming from the DVD player is digitized, and processed, before being displayed. I'm not sure that the process being done in a digital TV is any better than the zooming process being done by a software DVD player. Really good "blow up" algorithms exists.


Han: Hey Lando! You kept your promise, right? Not a scratch?
Lando: Well, what’s left of her isn’t scratched. All the scratched parts got knocked off along the way.
Han (exasperated): Knocked off?!

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If all you have is the VHS, then you should really get the DVDs. For those of us who own the LDs and a LD player- the benefit is less clear, but even a non-anamorphic transfer will be a huge improvement over VHS, for a lot less money than you would spend on the LDs and a decent LD player.


Even if you have the 04 DVD sets already? and BTW, I dont think I have a widescreen computer (it's a gateway)
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Originally posted by: generalfrevious
If all you have is the VHS, then you should really get the DVDs. For those of us who own the LDs and a LD player- the benefit is less clear, but even a non-anamorphic transfer will be a huge improvement over VHS, for a lot less money than you would spend on the LDs and a decent LD player.


Even if you have the 04 DVD sets already?
Well, if you want to upgrade your copies of the OT. The OT didn't come with the 2004 DVD set, and even if the new OT DVDs aren't anamorphic, they'll look way better than VHS.

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i've been watching some 4/3 dvds latelly to see what we can expect and some were pretty good, others were really bad:

Titanic: the first dvd (from 1999) was a 4/3 master, but i was surprised to see the quality of the picture despite being non-anamorphic and the fact that the movie (3hrs!) was on a single disc; if the OOT dvds can match that quality i will consider myself happy.

The Abyss: (probably the best Cameron movie ever!) it is also a 4/3 mastered dvd, but here you can tell that it is a LD master transfer; the picture is really blurry (specially when there is high contrasts in the image, like the openning sequence in the USS Montana), it's a shame that this movie never had a 16/9 release on dvd!

Silent Running: the quality is good enough to be "watchable" even if it is a typical 70's kind of image (grainy)

2010: the picture quality is ok, the lack of sharpness doesn't affect very much the space and interior scenes.

Wargames: this dvd has all the defaults! no sharpness, blurry and grainy picture.

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I highly doubt the DVDs will look as good as Titanic, which is a fairly recent movie. I'm expecting it to look about on par with The Abyss, which looks pretty good for nonanamorphic.
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Here's a dumb question: Just got a plasma TV. Will having a dvd player with HDMI/"upconverting" make any difefrence in how these discs will look?
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Originally posted by: Guy Caballero
Here's a dumb question: Just got a plasma TV. Will having a dvd player with HDMI/"upconverting" make any difefrence in how these discs will look?
That's not a dumb question, I was wondering the same thing myself. I imagine it would improve the picture, just like with any DVD. I don't think it matters if a DVD is 4:3 letterboxed-widescreen or 16:9 anamorphic (or 4:3 full-frame, for that matter), if I'm not mistaken, they should all benefit somewhat from a HDMI connection.

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I watched my Abyss DVD about a week ago. Had I not even heard of "Anamorphic" until this Star Wars DVD fiasco I wouldn't have noticed a thing on the Abyss. I still don't. I think it looks fine and have no regrets (yet) about buying the September release.
"I am altering the movies. Pray I don't alter them any further." -Darth Lucas