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New HDTV Broadcasts? — Page 3

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zombie84 said:

Its not news though.

You're confusing two semantic values of the word news.  There is news as in media news (broadcast news) and news as in information of interest: "news of this..."; "when news of this reached his ears..."  etc.

zombie84 said:

I know its a big deal to home video enthusiasts on message boards. But thats as far as it goes. Its a matter for the Warner home video department, who SHOULD be keeping wind of this stuff, not Ridley Scott.

I'm not saying he is responsible for the fiasco.  I'm simply saying that if I were in his position, I would have expressed an opinion on the release. This is especially true as he has a history of an taking interest in home releases of his films and a reputation for quality, being known to retain Charles de Lauzirika's services to achieve just this.

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Right, but when I say its "not news" I mean that its a generally trivial matter that wouldn't be something he would be aware of. Its not his job to police home theatre forums and see what people are saying. That's the job of the home video department of the distributor. His interest in the release is probably to ask "how's the Blu Ray done?" and a distributor rep tells him, "great, we sold 18 million units in the first month of release", and he says "terrific!" and goes back to making Robin Hood. When he gets to the home video production of Robin Hood and meets with Charles Lazaruka again, he'll probably catch wind of the technical deficiencies of the Gladiator release, but I doubt he would be able to put out a new version so soon, and I especially doubt that the home video department would be interested in a recall given the projected sales of it as it is.

I just wouldn't expect the director to be so on top of things like this.

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zombie84 said:

Right, but when I say its "not news" I mean that its a generally trivial matter that wouldn't be something he would be aware of.

I used the word news originally and you quoted it and said it was not news.  If you were not using the word news in the same sense, that's a bizarre way to write, as it comes across as a correction.

 

zombie84 said:

I just wouldn't expect the director to be so on top of things like this.

Fair enough!  I just expect that Ridley Scott would.

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Okay, the french TV broadcast of the first two episode is a terrible, TERRIBLE mess.

Full 16:9 pan&scan... the horror... (No CGI yoda, of course.) Looks like the 80's all over again. First the crawl is in the correct ratio (if not you could not read the text) then BLAM! 16:9 zoom.

The worst part is that the audience was huge behind the screen, but people who like movies are really disgusted. I know there is even a petition somewhere against that kind of practice now.

TF1HD usualy zoom their movies in 16:9, but I had hope that M6HD would not, I was wrong. Alien also got that same treatment.

M6HD did a lot of promotion for this event (all 6 movies in HD) but it ends as a big fiasco. Shame on them.

TMBTM - an angry french guy. :/

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I'm sorry to hear you're angry, TMBTM.  :-(  I actually wouldn't mind having a copy of the zoomed version of Star Wars, as I know many people who hate the black bars and would appreciate a zoomed version. 

What's the quality like apart from the zoom?  Were there burnt in French subtitles or was it dubbed? 

If anyone captures these and uploads a copy, let me know. 

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Very few french TV chanels presents their movies with subtitles. So is the french version. Sadly the files recorded by my father is a .wtv file with commercials inside the movie. Apparentely the .wtv files are easy to convert or cut in SD, but when it comes to HD the tools are not easy to find to play with it.

If my father did not already remove the file from his PC I can ask him to give it to me. (but it is TPM, not "Star Wars" 1977). But frankly everybody is pissed off about the poor quality.

The original trilogy will air in two weeks. But it appears that it will have the same treatment.

 

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Chewtobacca said:

I actually wouldn't mind having a copy of the zoomed version of Star Wars, as I know many people who hate the black bars and would appreciate a zoomed version. 

:-(

Correct AR FTW.

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Thank you for the information, TMBTM.  :-)  If someone can capture them and edit them, they might be worth having, though not if the quality is as poor as you say.

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TV's Frink said:

Chewtobacca said:

I actually wouldn't mind having a copy of the zoomed version of Star Wars, as I know many people who hate the black bars and would appreciate a zoomed version. 

:-(

Correct AR FTW.

I have to say its better than full-screen stretched to fit 16:9.

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Ok.  But the black bar hate has got to stop.  What did those black bars ever do to anyone?

*sobs*

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 (Edited)

TV's Frink said:

Ok.  But the black bar hate has got to stop.  What did those black bars ever do to anyone?

*sobs*

Well, I wasn't speaking for myself, my friend.  I said I knew other people who would appreciate a zoomed version, and I do.

I don't mind black bars myself, but I can see why many people don't like buying a big widescreen TV and having a significant portion of the screen effectively unused.  Many grew up with Star Wars as a pan and scan presentation on a 4:3 television, so having it as pan and scan on a 16:9 television is still an appreciable advance for them, is still widescreen and gives a nice big picture. 

I have argued the case for the black bars myself, and for 16:9 itself as being the best compromise between the many aspect ratios in existence, but ultimately such argument is fruitless.  Many people simply hate the black bars, and that's all there is to it.  I don't always agree, but I understand it.

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Chewtobacca said:

TV's Frink said:

Ok.  But the black bar hate has got to stop.  What did those black bars ever do to anyone?

*sobs*

Well, I wasn't speaking for myself, my friend.  I said I knew other people who would appreciate a zoomed version, and I do.

I understood.  I wasn't ranting at you.

Dirty little secret - I often watch SD content on my HD CRT stretched so I don't have to worry about burn-in.  But I never do that on my LCD.

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TV's Frink said:

Dirty little secret - I often watch SD content on my HD CRT stretched so I don't have to worry about burn-in.  But I never do that on my LCD.

You filthy Frink!  :-)  I promise I won't tell your LCD what you get up to with your CRT.  It'll never know! ;-)

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With some not always true assumptions here... sometimes the Fullscreen is useful for sampling raw images or parts since it's of a higher resolution.  If you think about it, you are cutting of the sides of the picture (which is terrible!) but you are then using the full resolution for appx half of the picture.  So the half that is there is actually of a higher resoultion than it would be if the other half was also there.

Unless the fullscreen or zoomed image was taken from a pre-existing widescreen image and therefore can contain no new original pixel information- rather interpolated pixel information from the original widescreen master.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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Fullscreen is not so bad if a film was shot super35mm, but as star wars was shot in a much wider aspect full screen pan and scan is horrible way worse than wasted space of non anamorphic letterbox versus real anamorphic.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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As a finished product, I agree that fullscreen is terrible.  I was mostly commenting that you get higher resolution image on that part what is still there... assuming that it's pan & scanned from a high resolution source and not the companion widescreen version.  In case that isn't clear, if the pan and scan version comes from the film negative or a 2k or 4k scan of the negative, then you get some higher quality images than the widescreen version.  Not that you'd want to watch it that way, but if you wanted to *ahem* borrow the images for DVD covers, or fan edits, or something like that... they are higher quality than the widescreen of the same since they are made of more pixels.

Furthermore:

There are 345,600 pixels in a 4x3 480p image.  If ~50% of those pixels are black bars and another %25 of those pixels are the sides that are cut off during pan and scanning... then the equivalent pan and scan image is 1/4 of the total resolution: 86,400.  Compared to the resolution of the same box in the P&S version: 345,600.  There are 921,600 pixels in a 16x9 720p image.  The same movie would be about 33% black bar in this movie.  And then the same square would be about half of the remaining image.  Or 304,128 pixels.  So, the resoltion of the P&S square (likely the most important part of the image) is actually higher in the SD P&S image than it is in the HD Widescreen image (at 720p). Of course, the best is the 1080p image.

Again, I'm not advocating watching movies in P&S, but for creative types looking to borrow the images, the value of a P&S release should not be overlooked.  Based on the assumption that the P&S pixel data come from a higher def source than the wideside version itself.

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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xhonzi said:

As a finished product, I agree that fullscreen is terrible.  I was mostly commenting that you get higher resolution image on that part what is still there... assuming that it's pan & scanned from a high resolution source and not the companion widescreen version.  In case that isn't clear, if the pan and scan version comes from the film negative or a 2k or 4k scan of the negative, then you get some higher quality images than the widescreen version.  Not that you'd want to watch it that way, but if you wanted to *ahem* borrow the images for DVD covers, or fan edits, or something like that... they are higher quality than the widescreen of the same since they are made of more pixels.

Furthermore:

There are 345,600 pixels in a 4x3 480p image.  If ~50% of those pixels are black bars and another %25 of those pixels are the sides that are cut off during pan and scanning... then the equivalent pan and scan image is 1/4 of the total resolution: 86,400.  Compared to the resolution of the same box in the P&S version: 345,600.  There are 921,600 pixels in a 16x9 720p image.  The same movie would be about 33% black bar in this movie.  And then the same square would be about half of the remaining image.  Or 304,128 pixels.  So, the resoltion of the P&S square (likely the most important part of the image) is actually higher in the SD P&S image than it is in the HD Widescreen image (at 720p). Of course, the best is the 1080p image.

Again, I'm not advocating watching movies in P&S, but for creative types looking to borrow the images, the value of a P&S release should not be overlooked.  Based on the assumption that the P&S pixel data come from a higher def source than the wideside version itself.

I've always figured that, but never run all the numbers.  P&S is good for maybe taking elements out of for object replacement/sharpening in widescreen video or posters, but only if they pulled from the print to make the P&S, unless the image is in motion across the widescreen image which leaves behind that weird effect I can see all the time now.

Heck, I noticed the pan in an episode of The Clone Wars this morning, its its all digital!

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That all depends on the assumption that the P&S is NOT a blow-up from the widescreen, which probably isn't the case. In the 80s and 90s the 4x3 transfers were minted straight from a print because this was 99% of the market, but in the DVD era where 4x3 is not liked I think they are more often than not just blow ups from a widescreen master. Even on Fox's "what is widescreen?" feature on the Die Hard 5-star DVD from 2001 they show the fullscreen process as derived from the widescreen master and thus losing resolution.

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 (Edited)

zombie84 said:

That all depends on the assumption that the P&S is NOT a blow-up from the widescreen, which probably isn't the case. In the 80s and 90s the 4x3 transfers were minted straight from a print because this was 99% of the market, but in the DVD era where 4x3 is not liked I think they are more often than not just blow ups from a widescreen master. Even on Fox's "what is widescreen?" feature on the Die Hard 5-star DVD from 2001 they show the fullscreen process as derived from the widescreen master and thus losing resolution.

I've not seen that feature, or knew that they would seriously make the P&S versions from the widescreen scans they already made.  Are the Star Wars 2004 DVDs done like that (not like we don't have the 1080p files floating around to use as sources)?

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Are they taken from the widescreen deliverable (480p or 1080p) or from the 2k or 4k master (assuming it's done)?

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!

 

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The 2004 SEs were not scanned in 2k, they were scanned in 1080, so the master negative is the same resolution as the HD version. I have no idea how the 4x3's were derived. It's possible that they just cropped the SD downconversion, which is what many 4x3 transfers are. Given that there was never a 4x3 HD release/broadcast as far as I know, I'm going to say that it's less likely that a 4X3 HD crop was made that was then downconverted. The 4x3 version was designed only for SD broadcast and DVD, so I wouldn't be surprise if they went the easier route of just cropping the WS downconversion.

The 16x9 HD crop shouldn't net you any higher detail though, since the negative master is itself HD--it's just a blow-up.

So perhaps none of the fullscreen releases are any better. There might be hope though, since the broadcasts are so compressed that the blow-up would reveal detail that got lost in the compression. The compression is applied during broadcast and isn't on the master they recieve, so in this respect even though the fullscreen is a blow-up you might get information thats not on the widescreen version.

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 (Edited)

sorry to dig up digital yoda again but other than seeing it in the concert i just noticed the first official confirmation of it

on the "making of star wars in concert" show the epilogue has them saying when george watched the concert one of his remarks was that they were still using the old yoda so the US shows were giving the digital yoda premiere

sorry if its old news but i only just watched the show this morning!

 

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Pfttt!  You're still using that Yoda?  What, are you from the Dark Ages?  Why don't you get with the times and use this Yoda?

IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!

"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005

"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM

"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.

Rewrite the Prequels!