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New 4K releases - but are they any good?

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This year has seen new 4K releases for The Matrix, Jurassic Park trilogy and others. Since there are many preservations going around, has anyone here picked these up and how do they compare to theatrical releases? The Matrix at least should be closer to the original version.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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I clearly don’t remember the theatrical look (oh wait I never saw it in theaters) but when the article says “less green” shouldn’t it say “no green?” I see no green in those pictures at all. Of course you can’t trust pictures like that, it might just be my monitor’s fault. Regardless I think color issues are way overblown, people are always trying to “fix” stuff here that doesn’t need fixing, and basically meh.

Episode I: The Ridiculous Menace / Episode II: Attack Of The Ridiculousness / Episode III: Revenge of the Ridiculousness

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Tobar said:

Blu-ray.com is my go to for reviews of new home video releases.

Here’s their review of the new Matrix transfer.

Many BD releases have gotten good video/audio reviews, like Jurassic Park, 007 films, Back to the Future etc. but on this forum people have had a different opinion as they have older releases and possibly even original audio tracks or film reels to make their point.

Has anyone here watched The Matrix for example? There’s a preservation going on, or is it anymore relevant? I’d like to see an official release put an end to fan preservation needs and just deliver an authentic product.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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LexX said:

Many BD releases have gotten good video/audio reviews, like Jurassic Park, 007 films, Back to the Future etc. but on this forum people have had a different opinion as they have older releases and possibly even original audio tracks or film reels to make their point.

I’m just going to be completely honest with you, and some people here may get pissed off at me, but most people on here just generally aren’t the experts that they think they are, and that’s putting it extremely politely. Just because someone on this forum thinks that old laserdiscs or DVDs look better than a perfectly fine blu ray doesn’t mean that you should listen to them. The 007 films look great on blu ray, except for Goldeneye which wasn’t restored. But even Goldeneye still looks better than it did on DVD and VHS. I’m going to go out on a limb and wager that over 99% of blu ray releases are better than any previous home video presentation of the film in question. I think the OUT and the “accurate” (however the hell that’s even judged) Star Wars color obsession has gotten many people on this site to think that all modern home video is questionable and all old home video is inherently accurate when that’s not true at all.

The Person in Question

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TV’s Frink said:

I clearly don’t remember the theatrical look (oh wait I never saw it in theaters) but when the article says “less green” shouldn’t it say “no green?” I see no green in those pictures at all. Of course you can’t trust pictures like that, it might just be my monitor’s fault. Regardless I think color issues are way overblown, people are always trying to “fix” stuff here that doesn’t need fixing, and basically meh.

There’s still green in the new Matrix images I’ve seen.

I agree with you that sometimes, especially here, color issues can be overstated. And there have been a lot of projects here that seem to want to do away with the idea of grading itself, wanting everything to look as it might in real life. But the Matrix Bluray grading was really really over the top green. From what I’ve seen, the new images look like a nice improvement.

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moviefreakedmind said:

LexX said:

Many BD releases have gotten good video/audio reviews, like Jurassic Park, 007 films, Back to the Future etc. but on this forum people have had a different opinion as they have older releases and possibly even original audio tracks or film reels to make their point.

I’m just going to be completely honest with you, and some people here may get pissed off at me, but most people on here just generally aren’t the experts that they think they are, and that’s putting it extremely politely.

Damn straight.

Episode I: The Ridiculous Menace / Episode II: Attack Of The Ridiculousness / Episode III: Revenge of the Ridiculousness

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towne32 said:

TV’s Frink said:

I clearly don’t remember the theatrical look (oh wait I never saw it in theaters) but when the article says “less green” shouldn’t it say “no green?” I see no green in those pictures at all. Of course you can’t trust pictures like that, it might just be my monitor’s fault. Regardless I think color issues are way overblown, people are always trying to “fix” stuff here that doesn’t need fixing, and basically meh.

There’s still green in the new Matrix images I’ve seen.

I agree with you that sometimes, especially here, color issues can be overstated. And there have been a lot of projects here that seem to want to do away with the idea of grading itself, wanting everything to look as it might in real life. But the Matrix Bluray grading was really really over the top green. From what I’ve seen, the new images look like a nice improvement.

In this case, it’s possible that my baseline is “incorrect” being that as I said I never saw the movie in theaters. So possibly for me, it’s down to personal preference, what I’m used to basically.

With that said I barely see any green in the images shown in that review.

Episode I: The Ridiculous Menace / Episode II: Attack Of The Ridiculousness / Episode III: Revenge of the Ridiculousness

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moviefreakedmind said:

LexX said:

Many BD releases have gotten good video/audio reviews, like Jurassic Park, 007 films, Back to the Future etc. but on this forum people have had a different opinion as they have older releases and possibly even original audio tracks or film reels to make their point.

I’m just going to be completely honest with you, and some people here may get pissed off at me, but most people on here just generally aren’t the experts that they think they are, and that’s putting it extremely politely. Just because someone on this forum thinks that old laserdiscs or DVDs look better than a perfectly fine blu ray doesn’t mean that you should listen to them. The 007 films look great on blu ray, except for Goldeneye which wasn’t restored. But even Goldeneye still looks better than it did on DVD and VHS. I’m going to go out on a limb and wager that over 99% of blu ray releases are better than any previous home video presentation of the film in question. I think the OUT and the “accurate” (however the hell that’s even judged) Star Wars color obsession has gotten many people on this site to think that all modern home video is questionable and all old home video is inherently accurate when that’s not true at all.

Really? On Her Majesty’s Secret Service is the worst of the bunch. Whoever did color correction on that needs glasses. And some people around here have access to original prints of certain films so the original color timings are known.

And the inclusion of lossless original audio mixes is important to some people. Not everything has to be remixed in atmos, which most people aren’t even going to able to install the extra speakers needed in their ceilings.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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TV’s Frink said:

moviefreakedmind said:

LexX said:

Many BD releases have gotten good video/audio reviews, like Jurassic Park, 007 films, Back to the Future etc. but on this forum people have had a different opinion as they have older releases and possibly even original audio tracks or film reels to make their point.

I’m just going to be completely honest with you, and some people here may get pissed off at me, but most people on here just generally aren’t the experts that they think they are, and that’s putting it extremely politely.

Damn straight.

Yeah. For a while, I also got sucked into the mentality here that most films apparently do not exist in any watchable state.

Many releases certainly have had room for improvement. But, except for films that have been torn limb from limb, like Lucas’s, I now think It’s perfectly fine to watch a release that might be imperfect, rather than a fan version from 35mm or laserdisc or with all color grading removed.

I still respect all of there wonderful and crazy projects here, so this is more of a personal thing. If it gets to the point where you can’t sit down and enjoy a film if the restoration is only 95% ideal, trying to fix every film, as an amatuer, is probably not the way forward. And you’re likely to introduce more problems than fixes, IMO.

Still, no reason not to push for better releases. I think The Matrix is looking better. Blade Runner Final Cut has some improved color now. Apparently the new Terminator 2 release falls short. Etc. And obviously some releases, occasionally, are indeed train wrecks.

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Yes, there are some projects that are anal retentive to put it mildly. But I don’t think anybody here thinks the current Star Wars Blu-Rays look anything like film these days. Even Phantom Menace is a plasticized wax-work mess now.

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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SilverWook said:

Yes, there are some projects that are anal retentive to put it mildly. But I don’t think anybody here thinks the current Star Wars Blu-Rays look anything like film these days. Even Phantom Menace is a plasticized wax-work mess now.

Yeah, I’m not really commenting on SW. Especially the first four. That said, I’ve moved away from the idea that fan edits can ever actually replace the films sufficiently (except Frinks). But they’re a great novelty.

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Not only concerning about video, but I like to have original audio too. It seems all too often that an older film needs to have Atmos to get 5 stars in audio department, but I’d be more happy to have an original DTS or even stereo or mono mix in there, or at least a faithful adaption to 5.1 (unlike e.g. The Terminator). And even though it may get overboard sometimes here, I still respect their opinion and I know there is a lot of knowledge on this site that many online reviewer doesn’t share.

Die Hard BD was pretty poor but it also has gotten supposedly a great representation in 4K. Hopefully the sequels are arriving soon with similar care.

Edit: and also, the basic idea for this thread was to know what would be the go-to version to get the most authentic viewing experience if a new 4K version has been released. Is it the 4K, the previous BD, or any fan preservation of sorts. For example I only watch T1 and T2 from my preservation files since both BDs were botched.

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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The screen grabs in the blu-ray.com review look a lot closer to the original DVD release, which I remember as being somewhat desaturated, with a green cast that made scenes in the Matrix look kind of brown overall.

Not that we should be using DVD as a reference, but the original Blu-ray release was way over the top green.

moviefreakedmind said:

LexX said:

Many BD releases have gotten good video/audio reviews, like Jurassic Park, 007 films, Back to the Future etc. but on this forum people have had a different opinion as they have older releases and possibly even original audio tracks or film reels to make their point.

I’m just going to be completely honest with you, and some people here may get pissed off at me, but most people on here just generally aren’t the experts that they think they are, and that’s putting it extremely politely. Just because someone on this forum thinks that old laserdiscs or DVDs look better than a perfectly fine blu ray doesn’t mean that you should listen to them. The 007 films look great on blu ray, except for Goldeneye which wasn’t restored. But even Goldeneye still looks better than it did on DVD and VHS. I’m going to go out on a limb and wager that over 99% of blu ray releases are better than any previous home video presentation of the film in question. I think the OUT and the “accurate” (however the hell that’s even judged) Star Wars color obsession has gotten many people on this site to think that all modern home video is questionable and all old home video is inherently accurate when that’s not true at all.

I agree with you in general (especially about people citing old NTSC releases as color references, which is insane), but you picked a bad example. The 007 films aren’t all terrible, but even if we set the color timing aside (which I’m certainly no expert on), the DNR trashed a lot of those discs. I have the box set and on a 50" 1080p display, it’s obvious they made a poor effort. The Bond and Star Trek films (OS and TNG) are shining examples of lazy studio output.

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Even if you’re going to say that they were lazy output, they still look far better than VHS, laserdisc, and DVD.

The Person in Question

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moviefreakedmind said:

Even if you’re going to say that they were lazy output, they still look far better than VHS, laserdisc, and DVD.

That shouldn’t be the yardstick. I’ve seen the “it’s better than the [insert previous release]” justification for decades, and it doesn’t really cut it. The truth is that you actually have to try to make a Blu-ray bad; excessive DNR and weird sound mixes don’t happen on their own.

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Yeah, but a lot of people on this website have the solution to go back and watch laserdisc instead of the imperfect blu-rays.

The Person in Question

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Of course they have better resolution, but actors shouldn’t look like wax works. Predator is a prime example of this. The early Blu-Ray release, even though it’s an MPEG 2 encode, is way better.

Criterion is about the only label that gets things right. Now that they’re doing Kubrick films again, I may see that accursed pink tennis ball shot in The Shining finally fixed. That’s the only movie that’s going to make me invest in a fifth optical disc video format in my lifetime.

Some movies are going to be an upscale no matter if you’re watching 4K or not. Pixar has flat out said it’s not worth the time and expense to render their films at 4K.

You know we’re all going to be discussing 8K in a few years anyway. 😛

originaltrilogy.com Moderator

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moviefreakedmind said:

Yeah, but a lot of people on this website have the solution to go back and watch laserdisc instead of the imperfect blu-rays.

I agree that’s absurd in most cases, unless the processing is so egregious that faces are wiped clean of any detail.

originaltrilogy.com Administrator

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SilverWook said:

Of course they have better resolution, but actors shouldn’t look like wax works. Predator is a prime example of this. The early Blu-Ray release, even though it’s an MPEG 2 encode, is way better.

Yes. The second release was a DNR nightmare.

Some of my favorite Blu-ray releases are just clean 2K scans with minimal cleanup. Verhoeven’s RoboCop and Total Recall remasters look amazing. Paramount could do the same with the Trek films and most fans would be thrilled.

originaltrilogy.com Administrator

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Jay said:

Some of my favorite Blu-ray releases are just clean 2K scans with minimal cleanup. Verhoeven’s RoboCop and Total Recall remasters look amazing.

Have they remastered Total Recall too? If yes then that has gone by me completely.

Since they’ve already done a 4K remaster for RoboCop BD release, hopefully they release it on 4K soon too!

And in the time of greatest despair, there shall come a savior, and he shall be known as the Son of the Suns.

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LexX said:

Jay said:

Some of my favorite Blu-ray releases are just clean 2K scans with minimal cleanup. Verhoeven’s RoboCop and Total Recall remasters look amazing.

Have they remastered Total Recall too? If yes then that has gone by me completely.

Since they’ve already done a 4K remaster for RoboCop BD release, hopefully they release it on 4K soon too!

I have this one, but it’s no longer in print:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Total-Recall-Blu-ray/42963/

I think this later release has the same disc/master:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Total-Recall-Blu-ray/121027/

originaltrilogy.com Administrator

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I’m currently working my way through the Jurassic Park 4k set. The original film looks stunning. The second one looks pretty good too. There’s a massive drop off in quality with the third one though, it looks worse than a lot of 1080p blu-rays I’ve seen. Haven’t watched Jurassic World yet, but it’s a recent enough movie that I’d assume it’s original master would yield a fine UHD disc.

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moviefreakedmind said:

LexX said:

Many BD releases have gotten good video/audio reviews, like Jurassic Park, 007 films, Back to the Future etc. but on this forum people have had a different opinion as they have older releases and possibly even original audio tracks or film reels to make their point.

I’m just going to be completely honest with you, and some people here may get pissed off at me, but most people on here just generally aren’t the experts that they think they are, and that’s putting it extremely politely. Just because someone on this forum thinks that old laserdiscs or DVDs look better than a perfectly fine blu ray doesn’t mean that you should listen to them. The 007 films look great on blu ray, except for Goldeneye which wasn’t restored. But even Goldeneye still looks better than it did on DVD and VHS. I’m going to go out on a limb and wager that over 99% of blu ray releases are better than any previous home video presentation of the film in question. I think the OUT and the “accurate” (however the hell that’s even judged) Star Wars color obsession has gotten many people on this site to think that all modern home video is questionable and all old home video is inherently accurate when that’s not true at all.

I agree in most cases, but there are certainly some fan projects whose color grading I prefer for one reason or another, “accurate” or not. KK650’s FOTR EE, Dek’s Terminator, whoever’s Aliens I have (can’t recall right now), and one or two others. I’m still waiting on a Blade Runner Final Cut regrade that I like, too.

I do think regrading very modern films that had all-digital grading (like Marvel movies) is odd. I question the “it didn’t have a blanket tint in the theater when I saw it a year ago” mentality, and while I’ll never begrudge anyone thinking these regrades look more pleasing to them, I generally think these are a waste of time and effort. But again, if that’s what people want to do with their time, more power to them.

a trolling bantha