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Neverar's A New Hope Technicolor Recreation (Final Version Released!) — Page 2

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Impressive work, NeverarGreat! Fascinating what repairing that can be done on this ugly video master!

BTW, that burning homestead transitional shot should not be pink shifted, no matter what you think. Trust me, it should not ever be compared with the original shot to begin with anyway.

Why do you base your work on dubious photos and why don't you get any support around here? Are they scared?

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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msycamore said:

Impressive work, NeverarGreat! Fascinating what repairing that can be done on this ugly video master!

BTW, that burning homestead transitional shot should not be pink shifted, no matter what you think. Trust me, it should not ever be compared with the original shot to begin with anyway.

Why do you base your work on dubious photos and why don't you get any support around here? Are they scared?

Surely the first question suggests a potential answer to the second?

Honestly though, at this point, I've read enough about people color correcting things that I am tired of it. He's probably doing a great job, and that's great, but I am no longer excited about such things.

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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timdiggerm said:

Surely the first question suggests a potential answer to the second?

 So, what's your answer to it then?

 

timdiggerm said:

Honestly though, at this point, I've read enough about people color correcting things that I am tired of it. He's probably doing a great job, and that's great, but I am no longer excited about such things.

What you're excited about, is the least of our concerns.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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msycamore said:

Why do you base your work on dubious photos and why don't you get any support around here? Are they scared?

Simply because I choose to focus on one of the resources at my disposal does not mean that I don't have others. I'm still sorting through the numerous sources this community has provided, and that will take time. The people here are not scared; several have been extremely helpful.

As to why I base the project on "dubious" photos, it's because those photos are what made me believe that Star Wars could look genuinely beautiful. So that's what makes me passionate about this project. They won't be able to help me correct most of the movie though. That's why I'm gathering many other sources to help.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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msycamore said:

timdiggerm said:

Surely the first question suggests a potential answer to the second?

 So, what's your answer to it then?

 

timdiggerm said:

Honestly though, at this point, I've read enough about people color correcting things that I am tired of it. He's probably doing a great job, and that's great, but I am no longer excited about such things.

What you're excited about, is the least of our concerns.

 Let me explain.

msycamore said:

why don't you get any support around here?

Maybe it's because he uses

dubious photos

and others don't think it's worth commenting on a project that does so.

On the other hand, in my case, I don't show much interest in this thread because

timdiggerm said:

I am no longer excited about such things.

I was suggesting possible answers to your questions.

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

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This is a new thread for the 1080p version, so it's possible that not everyone who supported NeverarGreat in the old thread has gotten round to posting in this one.  I still support this project and am pleased to see the move to 1080p.

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Alright msycamore and timdiggerm, how would you determine the most accurate source?

I've got to base these colors on something. First thing I'm basing it on is what these things actually look like, and stormtrooper armor is white. Correcting for that, it seems that the two most accurate sources are on the bottom, and I'll use both when finalizing the color. Neither the frame scan nor the Senator photo look all that dubious to me.

I'm sorry that this stuff isn't interesting to everyone, but I don't comment in other people's threads about how their type of project just doesn't interest me. If I'm interested, I comment. If I'm not, I don't.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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I'd say if you changed the white balance on the 70mm frames it'd be a pretty accurate source.

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

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Okay, maybe it's a stupid question, but how this 70mm frame scan isn't cropped? I thought all 70mm prints were 2.20:1?

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Tack said:

I'd say if you changed the white balance on the 70mm frames it'd be a pretty accurate source.

Harmy showed a while back with his adjustment of some 70mm frames to match the look of the technicolor IB print scan he's seen, that some of them are very different from the original look. We don't know how they were scanned and with what settings so they can't be completely trusted in my opinion.

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Just my 2$, I had a look through the 70mm files and picked these as the look I would be aiming around:

http://i43.tinypic.com/fvhf61.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/1eqgpi.jpg

I wouldn't use PS78 raw (it needs a slight Hue adjustment in my view http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2zh1mx1&s=5#.UtLWzrTu4g4 ) but any of the others I think are acceptable references. I'd be looking not so much as matching a reference exactly as getting an effect where it looks like I'm actually in the room with them, lifelike colours/skintones and lighting conditions. What would it have looked like on the set and thinking how much is a particular reference is getting in the way of that ideal version with weird tints, and contrast levels and stuff.

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NeverarGreat said:

Neither the frame scan nor the Senator photo look all that dubious to me.

The framescan is not saturated enough, and the Senator photo has the whites blown out. So, in that regard, they're at least "dubious".

Disclaimers: I don't know much about things like saturation, white balance, etc, I was sitting next to the guy taking the Senator photos, memory plays tricks, my monitor is not calibrated, etc.

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Feallan said:

Okay, maybe it's a stupid question, but how this 70mm frame scan isn't cropped? I thought all 70mm prints were 2.20:1?

Well from what little I've read, there were several aspect ratios for the several 70mm filming and projection technologies, but 2.20:1 was standard for blowing up 35mm film for 70mm, at least as I understand it. Here's some 70mm frames:

Notice that there are magnetic strips between the edge of the frame and the sprocket holes, as well as outside of the sprocket holes. These strips held the six channel audio, and would cut down on the available space in frame. Most of the 70mm frames of Star Wars that I've seen have not included these strips, so they were definitely never projected in a theater. They may simply be blowups of 35mm made specifically for collectors, unless they took a print and used it before the strips were added, which I find unlikely. The frame I used above was already cropped, so I don't know if it had audio. Based on the wider aspect ratio however, as well as it's unfaded appearance, I'd say that is not authentic. That's why I like the photo more; I know where it came from. Perhaps someone with more intimate knowledge of the 70mm process can set us straight!

@timdiggerm: You were there? That's so cool! I guess that explains why you're not interested in this - you've seen it already. ;)

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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I hope this project isn't dieing.

I'd really like to see the original BluRay release in a close-as-possible to the original color.

Because in theorie I can live with all the technical additions, but the artificial coloring and tinting is what makes it really unbearable.

So please keep working on it, those screens looked great.

Could there be an estimated release date?

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BuddhaMaster said:

I hope this project isn't dieing.

I'd really like to see the original BluRay release in a close-as-possible to the original color.

Because in theorie I can live with all the technical additions, but the artificial coloring and tinting is what makes it really unbearable.

So please keep working on it, those screens looked great.

Could there be an estimated release date?

 Don't worry, this project isn't cutting, stamping, or forming as if with a die. ;)

In all seriousness, it's still way too soon to know how long it will still take, in fact the real work is really just getting started in earnest.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
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@ timdiggerm Yeah, I got all that. I'm sorry for my stupid and grumpy response, had just received some bad news when I posted. Not an excuse I know.

@ NeverarGreat That's nice to hear, it just seemed to me from your earlier remarks on the first page, that wasn't the case. I'm glad I was wrong. :) The reason I called those photos dubious is because they cannot be used as a blueprint from the simple fact they're photos taken by a camera in theatre, they don't show the true contrast and often displays a pink tint. They are very nice and can of course be used as a general guidance. But when you're starting to apply a pink tint on a shot like that burning homestead sequence, I believe you're doing your project a big disservice. It's of course possible that particular print had a pink tint in certain scenes but as we perfectly know how certain things should look in Star Wars (stormtrooper armor is white) just use common sense for shots like that instead. Just my suggestion.

@ Feallan Not a stupid question, I've pointed out the same thing in the past. I admit I haven't studied them and compared but I'm pretty sure those are 35mm film cells and not 70mm ones. Here's an authentic 70mm frame to demonstrate the amount of picture information:

 

Btw, what the heck is up with the forum lately? Cannot edit my posts like I used to. Anyone experienced the same problem?

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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Alright msycamore, just for you I scrapped the homestead shot and had another go at it. You're probably right that there's no red in the sky (why would there be indeed!) So I tried to get as much out of it as possible. I also realized that the negative1 workprint had more detail in the shadows than the blu-ray, so now in this version you can see more billowing smoke. The grain doesn't match, but you can't have everything you wish for.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/58220

Thanks also for the information guys, I'm still very much on a steep learning curve with this.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
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Don't know if this will help at all but at the end of the 2nd preview clip i've just put up is that homestead shot you're regrading.

Here's a screencap taken from the preview clip of the shot in question:

I personally think that the colours in your comparison look really good, much better than the bluray but in terms of brightness it looks overexposed IMHO. Have you checked out these settings in space with a starfield in the background, seen how the blacks are affected by that brightness level?

Like msycamore I would really like to see how the transition to the Death Star and Tie Fighters looks with these settings.

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NeverarGreat, that's much better, looking great! :) Is this pink or purple cast something that is present throughout this shot in the blu-ray? How does your correction affect the TIE's and Death Star for example. In the original film you could often see the color timing change mid-wipe. With all wipes and dissolves redone in '97, I assume this is no longer the case. But I'm curious how regrading shots like this affects the timing of the CGI in that transition.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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In trying to get some detail into the shadows I did end up overexposing the image a bit. I've toned that down and played with the colors some more. It's not quite as bright as I'd like it to be, but at least all of the highlight detail is preserved.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/58368/picture:0

Mid wipe there is an increase in shadow noise which is more apparent in my correction, which then quiets down after the wipe ends. The Death Star is brighter and more green, which is more accurate IMO.

@kk: There's a lot of yellow in the brightest highlights of your last clip, which is very apparent in that shot. I try for an even white for the brightest parts of a shot unless there's clear evidence to the contrary, so you may look into that.

@msycamore: The purple persists throughout the shot and into the next one, so the highlights of the TIE fighters and the Death Star are quite reddish blue.

Incidentally, something I noticed after watching this particular clip a million times was that the Death Star stops rotating before the end of the shot. I guess the special effects guys were just like "Eh, that's probably good enough".

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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Yes, your shot looks much better now, the exposure is much better and you're keeping control of the blacks better. Funnily enough i've had to change my settings to accomodate the underexposed look of the trench run by modifying the brightness and contrast and my exposure in that homestead shot is pretty much identical to yours now. You reduced your exposure, I increased mine and we met in the middle, a pretty good sign that we're both on the right track. :)

Here's a very short clip of the homestead with my new settings in case you're interested:

https://mega.co.nz/#!7oh3gYhb!aH_cKlZOvJ1XXcufY0vgJzfX5yMKGdf7VnVwmmlQSdU

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NeverarGreat said:

Incidentally, something I noticed after watching this particular clip a million times was that the Death Star stops rotating before the end of the shot. I guess the special effects guys were just like "Eh, that's probably good enough".

Yeah, it's another one of those Special Edition trademarks, introducing a flaw that wasn't there in the original special effect. :) The result by extending the shot with a few frames.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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There's been a lack of updates recently because I'm in the process of upgrading my computer and my editing program. I should be all set before the end of the month though, and the long haul through the movie can commence.

I was just reexamining Harmy's Despecialized edition however, and realized that his version had highlight detail that simply doesn't exist in the Blu-ray. Looking through my screenshots, I found that the HD broadcast actually has comparable highlight detail to that of the DVD, but with slightly higher quality. The broadcast does not however have as much shadow detail as the Blu-ray. So it seems that I will need both the Blu-ray and the HD broadcast in order to save as much detail as possible.

Does anyone know what the best source for this broadcast is? I used to have the Wookiegroomer Presents version, but I deleted it some time ago. Is this the best version?

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)