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Name Something You Unreservedly Love About TROS (SPOILERS) — Page 3

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I only object when stories like these are inconsistent with their own rules. I don’t care whether anything within is ‘realistic’ to our world.

I had a problem with SKB’s firing being visible the way it was since it flies in the face of a basic understanding of light within SW. The discrepancy is evident when one looks at the hilarious official explanation.

Here, jumping in and out of light speed would be expected to look like skipping a stone on a pond. It might be in a straight line, or perhaps alternating a number of directions, but this scene implies they are more or less teleporting. This is baffling when placed alongside any and everything else we’ve ever gotten about hyperspace.

By all means, and please understand me, I welcome space slugs, mysterious gravity sources, sucking up the sun gradually until it fades to night while surviving on the planet, blowing up from the Star you sucked up and turning into a planet-sized Star that looks the same, etc. However this fictional realm works, cool. But I don’t like when it breaks its own rules.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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Hal 9000 said:

I only object when stories like these are inconsistent with their own rules. I don’t care whether anything within is ‘realistic’ to our world.

I had a problem with SKB’s firing being visible the way it was since it flies in the face of a basic understanding of light within SW. The discrepancy is evident when one looks at the hilarious official explanation.

Here, jumping in and out of light speed would be expected to look like skipping a stone on a pond. It might be in a straight line, or perhaps alternating a number of directions, but this scene implies they are more or less teleporting. This is baffling when placed alongside any and everything else we’ve ever gotten about hyperspace.

By all means, and please understand me, I welcome space slugs, mysterious gravity sources, sucking up the sun gradually until it fades to night while surviving on the planet, blowing up from the Star you sucked up and turning into a planet-sized Star that looks the same, etc. However this fictional realm works, cool. But I don’t like when it breaks its own rules.

Yes, that’s exactly my problem with this scene. I don’t care about dumb nitpicks like “Why would the bombers use gravity, it’s not realistic.” But when the movie blatantly breaks its own rules by having lightspeed travel take seconds instead of hours, that’s when I draw the line. I don’t know, maybe no one cares anymore. Based on some of the comments here, it seems like some people want Star Wars to devolve into another dumb action franchise. I miss the OT.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.

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 (Edited)

StarkillerAG said:

Hal 9000 said:

I only object when stories like these are inconsistent with their own rules. I don’t care whether anything within is ‘realistic’ to our world.

I had a problem with SKB’s firing being visible the way it was since it flies in the face of a basic understanding of light within SW. The discrepancy is evident when one looks at the hilarious official explanation.

Here, jumping in and out of light speed would be expected to look like skipping a stone on a pond. It might be in a straight line, or perhaps alternating a number of directions, but this scene implies they are more or less teleporting. This is baffling when placed alongside any and everything else we’ve ever gotten about hyperspace.

By all means, and please understand me, I welcome space slugs, mysterious gravity sources, sucking up the sun gradually until it fades to night while surviving on the planet, blowing up from the Star you sucked up and turning into a planet-sized Star that looks the same, etc. However this fictional realm works, cool. But I don’t like when it breaks its own rules.

Yes, that’s exactly my problem with this scene. I don’t care about dumb nitpicks like “Why would the bombers use gravity, it’s not realistic.” But when the movie blatantly breaks its own rules by having lightspeed travel take seconds instead of hours, that’s when I draw the line. I don’t know, maybe no one cares anymore. Based on some of the comments here, it seems like some people want Star Wars to devolve into another dumb action franchise. I miss the OT.

There are many reasons.

  1. Some new hyperspace was invented, and most of the ships have since upgraded considering how fast things are now.
  2. The planets are all very close, possibly in the same system.
  3. The scene isn’t proportional to time, and it actually did take an hour or so to jump from planet to planet. They just cut it out of the movie because it made for a poor action scene (as seen in TESB).

And I hate to say this but Star Wars has always been a dumb action franchise. Better than most, but still. The only real moment this went beyond was when Luke used nonviolence to redeem Vader. Everything else has been arguably formulaic when we look at the Samurai and Western films of the past: even Empire’s “big theme” is just “don’t be a hothead” which is altogether pretty standard.

Maul- A Star Wars Story

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Movie breaks lore. EU releases antibodies. Scar tissue forms.

With this movie I think the patient had his head severed. It’s especially sad since he was two days away from retirement.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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OutboundFlight said:

StarkillerAG said:

Hal 9000 said:

I only object when stories like these are inconsistent with their own rules. I don’t care whether anything within is ‘realistic’ to our world.

I had a problem with SKB’s firing being visible the way it was since it flies in the face of a basic understanding of light within SW. The discrepancy is evident when one looks at the hilarious official explanation.

Here, jumping in and out of light speed would be expected to look like skipping a stone on a pond. It might be in a straight line, or perhaps alternating a number of directions, but this scene implies they are more or less teleporting. This is baffling when placed alongside any and everything else we’ve ever gotten about hyperspace.

By all means, and please understand me, I welcome space slugs, mysterious gravity sources, sucking up the sun gradually until it fades to night while surviving on the planet, blowing up from the Star you sucked up and turning into a planet-sized Star that looks the same, etc. However this fictional realm works, cool. But I don’t like when it breaks its own rules.

Yes, that’s exactly my problem with this scene. I don’t care about dumb nitpicks like “Why would the bombers use gravity, it’s not realistic.” But when the movie blatantly breaks its own rules by having lightspeed travel take seconds instead of hours, that’s when I draw the line. I don’t know, maybe no one cares anymore. Based on some of the comments here, it seems like some people want Star Wars to devolve into another dumb action franchise. I miss the OT.

  1. Some new hyperspace was invented, and most of the ships have since upgraded considering how fast things are now.

In that case they wouldn’t show hyperspace taking hours in the SAME MOVIE.

  1. The planets are all very close, possibly in the same system.

Still doesn’t justify why an uncalculated lightspeed jump would lead to them landing on the surface of every planet in the system.

  1. The scene isn’t proportional to time, and it actually did take an hour or so to jump from planet to planet. They just cut it out of the movie because it made for a poor action scene (as seen in TESB).

In that case there would be transition wipes. Since there are no transition wipes, it’s all part of one uncut sequence.

And I hate to say this but Star Wars has always been a dumb action franchise. Better than most, but still. The only real moment this went beyond was when Luke used nonviolence to redeem Vader. Everything else has been arguably formulaic when we look at the Samurai and Western films of the past: even Empire’s “big theme” is just “don’t be a hothead” which is altogether pretty standard.

I don’t understand why so many people on a website called originaltrilogy.com don’t even like the OT, or at least consider the entire saga to be equally mediocre. The OT has themes that say something about the human experience, that’s why it’s still so popular today. You don’t get any of that stuff with the prequels and sequels, just surface-level fanservice and nonsensical plot logic.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.

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Broom Kid said:

lightspeed skipping would have worked just fine from a storytelling perspective if there’d been a few seconds of setup as to what it was before he did it, especially since Rey and Poe get in a fight over his even trying it. So obviously it was a “known” thing to those characters - we just needed to have it hinted it was even a thing before he pulled it off. It wouldn’t have taken a lot, and it wouldn’t need to be tied into the plot any more than it already is (which is not at all).

Personally, I don’t have strong feelings one way or another for the concept of lightspeed skipping, but I figured the reason why it’s not used often is because it’s mechanical suicide. I mean, the Falcon is on literal fire when they land. Basically saying it didn’t need much setup because it’s depicted as a cheap and relatively ineffective method to shake off foes. Doesn’t really break the lore to me since I can’t see where the characters in the OT would even try something so silly (imagine how sooner Han and the crew in ESB would had been apprehended if he intentionally pushed the limits of his fragile Hyperdrive). It’s like super speeding in a car; sure you’ll get someplace faster but at a very heavy cost to the engine.

The Rise of Failures

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TavorX said:

Broom Kid said:

lightspeed skipping would have worked just fine from a storytelling perspective if there’d been a few seconds of setup as to what it was before he did it, especially since Rey and Poe get in a fight over his even trying it. So obviously it was a “known” thing to those characters - we just needed to have it hinted it was even a thing before he pulled it off. It wouldn’t have taken a lot, and it wouldn’t need to be tied into the plot any more than it already is (which is not at all).

Personally, I don’t have strong feelings one way or another for the concept of lightspeed skipping, but I figured the reason why it’s not used often is because it’s mechanical suicide. I mean, the Falcon is on literal fire when they land. Basically saying it didn’t need much setup because it’s depicted as a cheap and relatively ineffective method to shake off foes. Doesn’t really break the lore to me since I can’t see where the characters in the OT would even try something so silly (imagine how sooner Han and the crew in ESB would had been apprehended if he intentionally pushed the limits of his fragile Hyperdrive). It’s like super speeding in a car; sure you’ll get someplace faster but at a very heavy cost to the engine.

That’s not even the problem with the scene, the problem is the obvious internal inconsistency of hyperspace travel taking seconds in one scene and hours in all the others.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.

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 (Edited)

StarkillerAG said:

Hal 9000 said:

I only object when stories like these are inconsistent with their own rules. I don’t care whether anything within is ‘realistic’ to our world.

I had a problem with SKB’s firing being visible the way it was since it flies in the face of a basic understanding of light within SW. The discrepancy is evident when one looks at the hilarious official explanation.

Here, jumping in and out of light speed would be expected to look like skipping a stone on a pond. It might be in a straight line, or perhaps alternating a number of directions, but this scene implies they are more or less teleporting. This is baffling when placed alongside any and everything else we’ve ever gotten about hyperspace.

By all means, and please understand me, I welcome space slugs, mysterious gravity sources, sucking up the sun gradually until it fades to night while surviving on the planet, blowing up from the Star you sucked up and turning into a planet-sized Star that looks the same, etc. However this fictional realm works, cool. But I don’t like when it breaks its own rules.

Yes, that’s exactly my problem with this scene. I don’t care about dumb nitpicks like “Why would the bombers use gravity, it’s not realistic.” But when the movie blatantly breaks its own rules by having lightspeed travel take seconds instead of hours, that’s when I draw the line. I don’t know, maybe no one cares anymore. Based on some of the comments here, it seems like some people want Star Wars to devolve into another dumb action franchise. I miss the OT.

Come the fuck on. There’s a lot that’s “dumb” in TROS that annoys me but this barely registers. I’m sorry but I care about more important things and I don’t expect Star Wars to be scientifically accurate or perfectly consistent when it comes to its tech. If you ask me, that kind of stuff has never been important (and should never be) and the fact that people spend so much mental energy on it is baffling to me. Just because it’s fantasy that doesn’t always make sense doesn’t mean it’s “dumb.”

Dislike the concept all you want (I know I’m in the minority on this point) but don’t claim I want the series to be dumb because I like it.

All that said, how long lightspeed takes has never been consistent. We barely even know how it works! And that’s the way it should be, the less explanation the better.

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I’ll grant that you don’t think such a thing is important if you let me maintain that it’s incongruous with what came before. It’s up to you whether it bothers you.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

Hal 9000 said:

I only object when stories like these are inconsistent with their own rules. I don’t care whether anything within is ‘realistic’ to our world.

I had a problem with SKB’s firing being visible the way it was since it flies in the face of a basic understanding of light within SW. The discrepancy is evident when one looks at the hilarious official explanation.

Here, jumping in and out of light speed would be expected to look like skipping a stone on a pond. It might be in a straight line, or perhaps alternating a number of directions, but this scene implies they are more or less teleporting. This is baffling when placed alongside any and everything else we’ve ever gotten about hyperspace.

By all means, and please understand me, I welcome space slugs, mysterious gravity sources, sucking up the sun gradually until it fades to night while surviving on the planet, blowing up from the Star you sucked up and turning into a planet-sized Star that looks the same, etc. However this fictional realm works, cool. But I don’t like when it breaks its own rules.

Yes, that’s exactly my problem with this scene. I don’t care about dumb nitpicks like “Why would the bombers use gravity, it’s not realistic.” But when the movie blatantly breaks its own rules by having lightspeed travel take seconds instead of hours, that’s when I draw the line. I don’t know, maybe no one cares anymore. Based on some of the comments here, it seems like some people want Star Wars to devolve into another dumb action franchise. I miss the OT.

Come the fuck on. There’s a lot that’s “dumb” in TROS that annoys me but this barely registers. I’m sorry but I care about more important things and I don’t expect Star Wars to be scientifically accurate or perfectly consistent when it comes to its tech. If you ask me, that kind of stuff has never been important (and should never be) and the fact that people spend so much mental energy on it is baffling to me. Just because it’s fantasy that doesn’t always make sense doesn’t mean it’s “dumb.”

Dislike the concept all you want (I know I’m in the minority on this point) but don’t claim I want the series to be dumb because I like it.

All that said, how long lightspeed takes has never been consistent. We barely even know how it works! And that’s the way it should be, the less explanation the better.

Okay, let’s agree to disagree. I’m done arguing.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.

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Hal 9000 said:

I’ll grant that you don’t think such a thing is important if you let me maintain that it’s incongruous with what came before. It’s up to you whether it bothers you.

I don’t have any problem with people disliking it. I get it! I said right off the bat that I know my take is controversial. I can plainly see the argument against it and I won’t dispute the logic.

The only thing that bothers me is when people say I shouldn’t be liking it.

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Hal 9000 said:
Here, jumping in and out of light speed would be expected to look like skipping a stone on a pond. It might be in a straight line, or perhaps alternating a number of directions, but this scene implies they are more or less teleporting. This is baffling when placed alongside any and everything else we’ve ever gotten about hyperspace.

It made visual sense to me. I don’t understand why you expected it to look like a stone skipping across water.

If you’re rapidly going to lightspeed and rapidly dropping out of it - I don’t know how else it could look except for teleporting. There’s no real way to show how the ship is “skipping” like a stone on a pond because the pond in this case isn’t stationary, and it’s not very easy to set up a scene where the four locations he’s skipping into and out of are all on screen at the same time as he bounces across them.

You could do it in a comic pretty easily (with the falcon breaking the gutters between panels) but I don’t know how you’d do it in the movie. The camera has to change locations with each jump, and at this point, from the POV we’re looking through IN those locations - the ship IS teleporting in and out, basically. Every exit and entry in Star Wars also looks like that.

I don’t know - it made sense to me, visually. I thought it was cool.

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Sorry for jumping in and if I missed something. I can’t remember all the jump locations, but I feel like it would make more sense if each jump was clearly in deep space. The nebula with the space worm makes sense, but the “mirror” world felt weird. Like they jumped right in the middle of city it looked like. Maybe they could’ve just “flown right by a star or bounce too close to a supernova”. Does that make sense?

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JJ Abrams doesn’t care about established rules of fictional technology, internal consistency of a fictional universe, if it looks cool, if it accelerates the plot. It’s all just magic tricks to him. Like in Star Trek Into Darkness when suddenly transporter technology allows you to beam across the galaxy.

Han: Hey Lando! You kept your promise, right? Not a scratch?
Lando: Well, what’s left of her isn’t scratched. All the scratched parts got knocked off along the way.
Han (exasperated): Knocked off?!

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RogueLeader said:

Sorry for jumping in and if I missed something. I can’t remember all the jump locations, but I feel like it would make more sense if each jump was clearly in deep space. The nebula with the space worm makes sense, but the “mirror” world felt weird. Like they jumped right in the middle of city it looked like. Maybe they could’ve just “flown right by a star or bounce too close to a supernova”. Does that make sense?

Yes, the concept could have been so much better if the Falcon encountered space related threats instead of planet related threats. So much of this movie could have been better with a simple rewrite.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.

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I agree with the room for improvement but I also liked lightspeed skipping…

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Lightspeed skipping is like the Bayhem or action scenes from Roland Emmerich disaster movies, like driving a plane through a collapsing skyscraper as the world blows up around it. At a certain point the tension caused by the bending of known rules and physical laws is released and you simply have to sit back and watch the madness wash over you. And that’s not terrible. I enjoyed TROS mostly because of how willfully it destroyed tension in service of action schlock. There’s nothing wrong with that, and Star Wars has dabbled in that realm many times before.

But compare any of those Bayhem scenes to, say, the Langley heist from the first Mission Impossible movie. That is a scene which takes place in almost complete silence with a single guy on a wire. It takes a good ten or fifteen minutes and it’s one of the most creative, tense, rewarding ‘action’ sequences I’ve ever experienced. The reason it’s so good is that the movie establishes clear rules and is careful never to exceed them.

Again, Star Wars isn’t MI nor should it be. But the point is that rules breed creativity and tension within a movie and breaking them releases this creativity in favor of imagination and breaks tension in favor of spectacle.

I hate the lack of creativity and tension in TROS.
I love the imagination and spectacle of TROS.

That is all.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
A New Hope Technicolor Recreation (Released!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

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This might be a cheat answer, but I absolutely loved this new theme by John Williams that shows up in a few different tracks. I like to call it the “Family Theme” since it usually plays when Rey is on screen with her found family.

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In answer to this thread’s prompt:

Luke lifting his X-wing was a bright spot.

Initiating self-destruct countdown…

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RogueLeader said:

This might be a cheat answer, but I absolutely loved this new theme by John Williams that shows up in a few different tracks. I like to call it the “Family Theme” since it usually plays when Rey is on screen with her found family.

That whole track is the best.

What a grand and intoxicating innocence. How could you be so naive? There is no escape. Come, lay down your weapons. It is not too late for my mercy.
A New Hope Technicolor Recreation (Released!)
The Force Awakens Restructured (V3 Released!) and The Starlight Project (WORKPRINT RELEASED!)

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 (Edited)

Hal 9000 said:

In answer to this thread’s prompt:

Luke lifting his X-wing was a bright spot.

Maybe if that happened in TLJ and he flew to Crait to actually face Kylo. I’m guessing it looked cool and by itself it was nice to see him complete that story arc from TESB so to speak, but as a force ghost? And in spite of the fact he could have done this in TLJ and not die from force exertion (despite Kylo force projecting multiple times in TROS and seeming none the worse for wear)?

Glad you could find some joy out the movie anyway.

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I don’t want to clog up this thread with off topic discussion but since this is where most of the lightspeed skipping thoughts are I wanted to follow up with just a few more of my own. I think the concept is self explanatory, it doesn’t actually need any extra setup, what I find missing is the payoff. Just brainstorming here but I think the falcon should have found its way to Exegol through skipping, that way it’s more than just a one and done flashy action scene, instead it would serve the story. That’s the bigger issue for me more than any kind of break in logic, I don’t care if the numbers don’t add up, I just want the elements to interact in a satisfying way.

Now to pay my unreserved love tax: I loved babu frik, even when I thought I’d hate him instead he’s the most successful new alien for me in the new movies so far.

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 (Edited)

I like the Sith troopers. Kinda wish there was a scene where they demonstrated some Force abilities.

McDiarmid’s performance is great.

I liked seeing Mustafar again. It was neat to see another part of the planet.

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The few things I liked about this movie:

-The John Williams music. It’s the only reason some scenes seem somewhat emotional.

-Poe’s conversation with Zorii. It’s a welcome break from the nonstop pacing, and I wish there were more scenes like it.

-Redeemed Kylo’s mannerisms. He seemed like a completely different person. I just wish his redemption made more sense.

I hated almost everything else.

My preferred saga experience:
TPM/AOTC/ROTS (Hal 9000 edits), ANH/ESB/ROTJ (Despecialized), The Mandalorian.
May the midichlorians be with you.