John Berman at a comic book convention pondering why Luke and Leia kissed in ESB and were also siblings (!?) John Berman must be a SW fan as he also did the SWHS segment on Nightline a couple of years ago.
EDIT: Here's a link to the segment:
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline
An Alternate Source for people where that link will not play.
I can't believe any of these moron SW fans who dress up can't answer why Luke and Leia kiss, yet they are siblings. Is every SW fanboy naive to the reality that Lucas was making this up as he was going along?
Let's hope he was, or if this was planned, that would be creepy as hell!
Yeah, those people acted as if they'd never even thought about it before.
Personally, it didn't (and still doesn't) bother me because when I saw ESB in '82, we didn't yet know that they were siblings (and they probably weren't at that point), PLUS- it was pretty obvious that Leia kissed Luke only to make Han jealous.
It makes me all the more curious to see the previous scene (which was cut out of the film- a snippet remains in one of the trailers) when Luke & Leia are having a private discussion, lean in to kiss each other, and then are interrupted by 3P0.
Exactly, The Empire Strikes Back has nothing to do with the bad and cheap script writing of Return of the Jedi.
But I'm one of those fans that don't like Return of the Jedi and in my little world, Leia is not Luke's sister, because I stop watching after Empire and that makes me a happier person, even though the ending is a downer. ;)
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
This sort of thing does happen.
It's rare but not that rare.
The thing that makes it seem so rubbish in ROTJ is the tone of the film which is all over the place (setting the scene for the PT later).
Comedy Ewoks, comedy droid torture, burp jokes, puppet/CGI song and dance numbers etc, etc mixed in with accidental near incest, father Vs son limb slicing action revisited, giant Vagina dentata and the implication that Jabba does slave girls (check out the tongue action).
Sort out the tone of ROTJ and the Luke/Leia thing makes sense (there are clues to this being possible retroactively evident in ESB).
It's certainly less weird than a romantic scene between a really little boy and early teen girl.
George hasn't made his mind up if these films are meant to be for little kids or really warped teenagers and adults.
So he mixes it so it's not really hitting the mark for either.
Mielr said:
It makes me all the more curious to see the previous scene (which was cut out of the film- a snippet remains in one of the trailers) when Luke & Leia are having a private discussion, lean in to kiss each other, and then are interrupted by 3P0.
You have seen the re-creation of this scene in Building Empire, right? It is pretty close.
Bingowings said:
This sort of thing does happen.
It's rare but not that rare.
The thing that makes it seem so rubbish in ROTJ is the tone of the film which is all over the place (setting the scene for the PT later).
Comedy Ewoks, comedy droid torture, burp jokes, puppet/CGI song and dance numbers etc, etc mixed in with accidental near incest, father Vs son limb slicing action revisited, giant Vagina dentata and the implication that Jabba does slave girls (check out the tongue action).
Sort out the tone of ROTJ and the Luke/Leia thing makes sense (there are clues to this being possible retroactively evident in ESB).
It's certainly less weird than a romantic scene between a really little boy and early teen girl.
George hasn't made his mind up if these films are meant to be for little kids or really warped teenagers and adults.
So he mixes it so it's not really hitting the mark for either.
He must have hit pretty close to mark, to get us all riled up like that.
ka-ching!
IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!
"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005
"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM
"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.
Also, I cite the song by my Fake Star Wars Rock Band Band, Porkins and the Came from Behinds: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/My-Fake-Star-Wars-Band-Rock-Band/topic/10863/
I kissed my sister (and I liked it!)
IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!
"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005
"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM
"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.
Porkins and They Came From Behind?
Sounds like a really dirty porno to me. :p
CO said:
I can't believe any of these moron SW fans who dress up can't answer why Luke and Leia kiss, yet they are siblings. Is every SW fanboy naive to the reality that Lucas was making this up as he was going along?
Let's hope he was, or if this was planned, that would be creepy as hell!
I hope you're not implying they are morons simply because they wear costumes at cons.
A old newspaper article I wish I'd saved mentioned fans yelling out "incest!" at one of the Trilogy screenings held for charity. ;)
If you've seen the "Star Wars to Jedi" documentary, Lucas fesses up that they had no real motivation for Luke to go all Dark Side on Vader as they began to shoot the final confrontation. The implication is the whole sister thing was pulled out of his asteroid field at the last minute.
I'd certainly be interested in knowing what was shot first, the throne room fight, or Luke and Leia on the Ewok Village set. All the Endor exteriors in Northern California were shot last, according to the documentary.
The animation in the Nightline segment is creepy too!
Where were you in '77?
I've no doubt that it was an eleventh hour quick fix (Kurtz and others have said there were both different plans for Leia and the identity of the other).
We all know (I hope) that the idea of the Lucas grand vision is total bunk, he has been flying this saga by the seat of his pants from day one.
But it retroactively makes sense that Leia is Luke's sister if you take into account things that happen in ESB and the kissing thing has real life parallels so it's plausible (in a way that much of Star Wars is not).
The mistaken identity/hidden sibling schtick is as old as tea, it appears in Greek theatre and Shakespeare and it fits in with all the other mythical aspects of Star Wars pretty well.
It's a bit of a cop out but it only feels so crappy because ROTJ is such a kitchen towel of a story.
All loose ends tied up in a really stupid bow (huge expansive galaxy striding story collapses into two old men fighting over a well).
CO said:
I can't believe any of these moron SW fans who dress up can't answer why Luke and Leia kiss, yet they are siblings. Is every SW fanboy naive to the reality that Lucas was making this up as he was going along?
Let's hope he was, or if this was planned, that would be creepy as hell!
Not to disparage the man but he and Spielberg did also come up with the idea that Indiana Jones had an affair with Marion when she was between the ages of 12-15. Source
And what is the source of this Raiders "transcript"? The article doesn't say...
Where were you in '77?
It doesn't, but it does link to the actual transcript so you can read it yourself. Looking around it seems the first place it was mentioned was this blog. The existence of the transcript can be traced back as far as 2005 in the book The Cinema of George Lucas by Marcus Hearn.
I don't recall- I'll have to check that out again. I do remember that the scene was in the ESB comic book adaptation.
Sluggo said:
Mielr said:
It makes me all the more curious to see the previous scene (which was cut out of the film- a snippet remains in one of the trailers) when Luke & Leia are having a private discussion, lean in to kiss each other, and then are interrupted by 3P0.
You have seen the re-creation of this scene in Building Empire, right? It is pretty close.
msycamore said:
But I'm one of those fans that don't like Return of the Jedi and in my little world, Leia is not Luke's sister, because I stop watching after Empire and that makes me a happier person, even though the ending is a downer. ;)
Mielr said:
I love ROTJ, and the fact that their relationship was likely manufactured at the 11th hour doesn't bother me one bit. For whatever reason it was done, I have no more problem with Luke and Leia being siblings in ROTJ as I did with Vader being Luke's father in ESB.
But if you think about it, it was actually ROTJ that cemented Vader as a Skywalker not ESB.
We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions.
Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com
CO said:
Is every SW fanboy naive to the reality that Lucas was making this up as he was going along?
I have wondered that for some time. I never believed for a second that Lucas planned the whole saga in 1977. Leia's line "somehow I've always known" induces nausea. Thanks for the insult to your fans' intelligence, Mr. Lucas. I get tired of having to use Jedi mind tricks on myself every time I watch Return of the Jedi.
ator said:
CO said:
Is every SW fanboy naive to the reality that Lucas was making this up as he was going along?
I have wondered that for some time. I never believed for a second that Lucas planned the whole saga in 1977. Leia's line "somehow I've always known" induces nausea. Thanks for the insult to your fans' intelligence, Mr. Lucas. I get tired of having to use Jedi mind tricks on myself every time I watch Return of the Jedi.
I think that line should go from any further reworking of ROTJ, wouldn't she be saying something like "Suddenly it all makes sense...phew! Lucky we figured that out before...well...you know"?
Much of the tone of that conversation is close to the mark, if not spot on (her horror and disgust at finding out that Vader is Luke's father was a good call...now she will have to cope with him being her father too which would be a serious mind funk considering what he did to her in the previous two episodes).
That line however sticks out like a sore thumb.
msycamore said:
Mielr said:
I love ROTJ, and the fact that their relationship was likely manufactured at the 11th hour doesn't bother me one bit. For whatever reason it was done, I have no more problem with Luke and Leia being siblings in ROTJ as I did with Vader being Luke's father in ESB.
But if you think about it, it was actually ROTJ that cemented Vader as a Skywalker not ESB.
