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NFL — Page 24

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Originally posted by: starkiller
In the 70s, the Cuyahoga River caught fire. Its not something Clevelanders (that were here) are proud of.

The river and Lake Erie are better now, but the reputation remains. We have a micro-brewery in the area that offers a 'Burning River Ale'.


what was actually burning?
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Originally posted by: Bossk
Why have I never heard of a Philly Curse? While the Billygoat Curse or the Curse of the Bambino are pretty widespread in terms of recognition.

What is the curse all about? What supposedly happened to start it?


there 2 theories to this.

1. The curse of Billly Penn. As you may know there is statue on top of our city hall of William Penn. He is the founder of Philadelphia. There used to be a "Gentlemen's Agreement" that no building could be taller than the statue of Billy Penn. That ended with the building of Liberty Place a very tall skyscraper. The city agreed to build this building in 1984, a year after the last championship in Philly.

2. The Move curse. There is an anti-government group living in Phlly who call themselves "Move". They are a very weird group they all use the same last name "Africa". They have had several run ins with the cops. One in 1978 in which a police officer was actually killed. They drove their neighbors nuts. They blasted their propaganda from a van and kept their neighborhood up all hours of the day. Their house reaked. I think they ate raw meat. They did not keep their childred clean. I believe they did all sorts of things that violated the law. But I can't remember the details. They also turned their house into a fortified bunker. Finally on May 13, 1985 the cops came to issue warrents. This turned into a 90 minute gun battle. After that stupidly and approved by Mayor Wilson Goode, they droped a bomb on top of the bunker. I think they did it to knock some gun turrets off the roof. This was broadcast live on local tv. The image of that bomb going off is burned into my mind. This started the infamous move fire. Multiple move members died in the fire. The really stupid thing is, is that the fire department could have put the fire out if the cops had let them. But the cops refused to let the fire department near the house for fear that the move members inside the house would open fire on them. They refused to let them try to put the fire out even after the whole move house was engulfed in flames. The result: over 60 rowhouses burned to the ground. A whole neighborhood was destroyed. I could see the smoke from my house in South Jersey. Fortunately the people were evacuated from their homes so no one with exception of the move members were killed. But peoples' property was lost and I'm sure pets were killed. There are still 9 move members in jail. The ones outside have become alot more peaceful. And they(the move members) say that Philly will never win another championship until all 9 move members who are still in jail, are freed. We havn't won one since.
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Wait a second. Move has all this shit happen to them and all they can think to do is put a curse on Philadelphia sports teams? That seems rather petty and misguided. Why not curse the law enforcement or the legal system or the state government? If all they could think to do was curse the teams, they deserve to burn. My god. Get your priorities straight.

Now the Billy Penn curse... that sounds pretty legit and interesting. However, you say the building went up in 1984 "a year after the last championship in Philly." Was this the Sixers or the Flyers? Because you said the Eagles and Phillies haven't won jack since 1980.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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'84 had to be the 'Sixers, because the Oilers won the cup in '84, if memory serves.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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I thought he was talking about '83.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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I think '83 was the Islanders. Just confirmed that on NHL.com. In fact, the last time Philly won the Cup was 1975.

Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.

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Just found it on NBA.com. Sixers won in 83-84. Moses Malone was Finals MVP.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
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Yes, the last time a Philly team won a championship was 1983. The team was the Sixers.

The last time the Phillies won was in 1980.

The last time the Eagles did was in 1960, (they won the NFL championship game, this was before the Superbowl existed)

The last time the Flyers did was in 1975.
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Originally posted by: Bossk
Wait a second. Move has all this shit happen to them and all they can think to do is put a curse on Philadelphia sports teams? That seems rather petty and misguided. Why not curse the law enforcement or the legal system or the state government? If all they could think to do was curse the teams, they deserve to burn. My god. Get your priorities straight.

Now the Billy Penn curse... that sounds pretty legit and interesting. However, you say the building went up in 1984 "a year after the last championship in Philly." Was this the Sixers or the Flyers? Because you said the Eagles and Phillies haven't won jack since 1980.



Move is a very weird group. But they aren't the only ones to blame for the fire. The city total mishandled the situation. They should not have let Move fortify their house into bunker. They should stoped them long before that. They should not have droped the bomb. That was asking for trouble. And they should have let the fire department put the fire out as soon as it became obvious that the move members inside the burning house were incapable of firing apon them. Instead, they let it get out of control. It cost the city dearly. They had to rebuild all of the homes. Whats worse, they tried to do it on the cheap ,and the houses had all sorts problems(electrical, heating, plumbing, cracking plaster, leaking roofs, etc...) resulting in lawsuits adding onto the ones created from the fire itself. And, I think some of the houses had to be rebuilt again. The really stupid thing is that the city voters releected Major Goode!!
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Well, the police were right in one regard, they are not supposed to allow EMTs, paramedics, and fire fighters on scene until the threat of bodily harm from violence is secured. They teach you that in EMT/Medic school. If there is a potential threat, we stay the hell away until the scene is secure. Of course, that shouldn't have stopped them from firing hoses from a distance or bringing in airlifted water supplies. But, then again, the place should never have been bombed in the first place. When you say "bomb," what do you mean by it? The literal definition? Cannister-drops-out-of-sky-and-destroys-something-in-a-radical-explosion sort of "bomb"?
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
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I agree that you have to keep the fire department back until after the threat posed by the Move people inside the house was eliminated . But even after the whole Move house was engulfed in flames and no one still inside could possibly be alive, they were still keeping the fire department back!


As for the bomb, I really don't know too many technical details. I just know that they droped it from a helicopter and when it hit the roof, it went boom. It didn't create too big an explosion. As I recall I think there was a canister on the roof with flammable material inside and when the bomb hit the roof, it caught fire.

I think the main mistake was not doing somthing about Move before they turned their house into a fortified bunker.
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They definitely should have been more proactive about the situation.

However with regard to the police and fire... there still is no way to have known that the threat was ended. With how fortified the place had become, it would not be outside the realm of possibility that they were hidden in some fireproofed basement or that there was an interior room that was fireproofed, fortified, and that armed people weren't waiting inside for the fire to be put out and then hit. Wasn't there some similar fortified interior room in the Waco siege? The firemen would still be putting themselves in harm's way. I know it's a controversial decision, but I would have to support the police on it. But, then again, my knowledge of the facts is really limited (just to what you've told me).
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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Yeah I agree, and what I told you is only what I remember of an incident that happened 20 years ago. I may have some of the facts mixed up and I'm sure I'm missing a few important ones. Also, I am not an expert on the police nor the fire department. So I could very well be wrong.
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Well, to get back on topic... Jeff Garcia was cut today by the Browns. The article I read mentioned something about a lawsuit he was involved in during this season that brought to light embarrassing facts about his personal life. Anybody have any insight into what that is about?
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
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Originally posted by: Bossk
Well, to get back on topic... Jeff Garcia was cut today by the Browns. The article I read mentioned something about a lawsuit he was involved in during this season that brought to light embarrassing facts about his personal life. Anybody have any insight into what that is about?
Well, being in Cleveland, I can tell you what I remember.

1. He hasn't been "cut" yet. The official cut date is in about a week. The Browns have simply announced their intention to cut him.
A minor detail I know, but worth mentioning.

2. There was not a law suit, rather, it was an incident involving his current and ex-girlfriends meeting.
Garcia and his girlfriend, Playmate Carmela DeCesar (sp?) were at a bar in the Cleveland night-spoty, known as the Flats. His ex came in and there was an altercation. As I recall, there was something about a drink being thrown and some martial arts moves, but that's about all I remember.
Carmela was charged with battery or assault or something.

Anyways, some lawyer with dillusions of being the next Johnny Cochran got Jeff on the stand, and started asking him all kinds of personal questions which were not relevant to the case.
(As you may recall, Terrell Owens said Jeff was gay, using the comment that "If it looks like a rat, and smells like a rat, it must be a rat.")
The questions were along that line of questioning.

That is about it. Carmela was found not guilty of the assault, but there was a secondary charge about violating an restraining order that she was guilty of (she got community service).

Which gets me started on another issue: Why can't these people date people their own age? Carmela's 22-23. Jeff is almost 35.
See, now I'm 24. That's perfect...
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Why didn't Garcia's lawyer object to the line of questioning and, if he did, why did the judge allow it to continue if it was completely unrelated? That makes no sense.

As for dating outside your age group... I have no idea why it happens. In the celebrity world, I understand it when a nobody of a completely different age range dates a celebrity much older or younger; it's prestige and money. But for a celebrity like a Playboy Playmate to date somebody that much older (and, I might add, not particularly good looking) when she can have anybody, including any not-past-his-prime NFLer, is beyond me.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
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I do not recall if the lawyer did any objecting, but I do know the judge took some heat for allowing the testimony to continue along that line of questioning.

BTW: If you think Jeff isn't good looking, you should see him with hair.
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He's got hair now? Guess he's had nothing better to do this offseason.
"You fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is 'Never get involved in a land war in Asia'."
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
-------------------------
Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com
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Warbler, this is why I get annoyed with you sometimes. It’s like you want me to start posting Sanchez pictures again, just so you can get mad.

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sorry. But the Eagles are about to play in the Superbowl.