NEW ZELDA

Wow, that sounds really gay. Anyone remember when you first put that gold cartridge into your NES and were blown away by what an awesome game it was? Did you ever think that twenty some years later kids would be controlling the very same character as a train engineer? Sigh. Zelda has been teetering on the fence for a while now, and if this thing is true, I am pretty sure it just fell off on the wrong side. Too bad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65uKGGbOwTg

Come on guys it is just another spin off DS game like Phantom Hourglass set in the Windwaker Zelda universe, not the next flagship Zelda title that is still in development.  Twilight Princess was originally designed for the gamecube and only very late did it become a wii title.  There is still no Zelda originally designed exlusively for the Wii.  I wonder if another Zelda game comes out for the wii before nintendos real next gen system is released.

I believe I asked you to please tell me it's a joke, not prove to me that it isn't.  Sigh, damn.

Somebody please explain to me what place a train has in a world modeled after medieval Europe!  Why did that audience cheer after seeing that trailer?  I nearly vomited!

skyjedi2005 said:

Come on guys it is just another spin off DS game like Phantom Hourglass set in the Windwaker Zelda universe, not the next flagship Zelda title that is still in development.

Right, but from what little I have played of The Phantom Hourglass, it was quite good. The Minish Cap was really good too. This new thing looks absurd!

The DS has proven itself to be a pretty impressive little machine, when game makers feel like tapping into that power. I don't know details on all the technical stuff, but the DS version of Mario 64 was very faithful to the original. In my limited knowledge of programming and game making, but in my estimation, that means something along the lines of Ocarina of Time or Majora's Mask would be possible on a system like the NDS.

If that is the case, why not shoot for something impressive like that, rather than making crappy "spin offs" like this? This thing isn't the GameBoy anymore, it can pack a lot of power, but we are still getting cheezy GameBoy level games, only with better graphics. My guess would be that it has a lot to do with man power and resources. Some POS like this probably doesn't take too large of a team or time to build.

I wish there were more good games for the DS. I love my DS, but I mostly use it for homebrew and GBA games, very few actual DS games appeal to me. Though GTA: Chinatown Wars that was released a few days ago is quite impressive. Love to see more stuff like that.

As for Spirit Tracks, nothing lost, nothing gained I suppse. I just hope the first Zelda for the Wii doesn't feature Link piloting a spaceship to the moon. That would be really unfortunate.

Gaffer Tape said:

Somebody please explain to me what place a train has in a world modeled after medieval Europe!

Yeah, that is exactly how I felt when telephones showed up in Links Awakening. At least the game ended and everything turned out to be a dream... sort of, which makes it slightly more forgivable. But since then they have been slipping all kinds of silly stuff in there on us, like the camera in Majora's Mask to name one. I suppose it was only a matter of time before Link hopped on a train.

Yeah, I was thinking that too.  The phone didn't bother me because, once again, it was a dream, and I have a plenty high suspension of disbelief.  But then, yeah, I began to get a little suspicious with Majora's Mask where new technology started popping up all over the place.  It was such a great game that I forgave it, but I had my eye on the series now.  What with the pictograph box and the neon in the Great Bay Temple, I was getting worried.  And it's been all downhill from there (in terms of anachronisms), culminating in this sad little thing.

Gaffer Tape said:

Yeah, I was thinking that too.  The phone didn't bother me because, once again, it was a dream, and I have a plenty high suspension of disbelief.  But then, yeah, I began to get a little suspicious with Majora's Mask where new technology started popping up all over the place.  It was such a great game that I forgave it, but I had my eye on the series now.  What with the pictograph box and the neon in the Great Bay Temple, I was getting worried.  And it's been all downhill from there (in terms of anachronisms), culminating in this sad little thing.

I don't see how it being a dream in Link's Awakening makes up for having telephones. I mean, I would assume Link knows what a telephone is before he can dream it up.

And I don't mind the train, I actually think it's a pretty neat idea. It's just a replacement for the steam boat in Phantom Hourglass. Link does look weird in hs conductor uniform, but I'll get used to it. I think it's highly original. I still have Phantom Hourglass, so I should finish that first... but I'm also wondering if I should get Rhythm Heaven. I'm going to NYC where the Nintendo World Store is and was planning on getting Pokemon Platinum (let's have another debate on that!) and a DSi (that too?) I played the demo of Rhythm Heaven today and it was neat. Better than I expected. It's incredibly unique.

sean wookie said:

I hate that I can't get to the arcade channel due to having a hacked Wii.

The new arcade Virtual Console games? If you have a hacked Wii, can't you just install an emulator into the Homebrew Channel?

StormtroopersAreBetter said:

I don't see how it being a dream in Link's Awakening makes up for having telephones. I mean, I would assume Link knows what a telephone is before he can dream it up.

And I don't mind the train, I actually think it's a pretty neat idea. It's just a replacement for the steam boat in Phantom Hourglass. Link does look weird in hs conductor uniform, but I'll get used to it.

Yeah, I suppose he would, but it was the windfish's dream right? Not Link's? I still think the phones were really dumb. There are plenty of games that take place in modern times, the fantasy world setting of Zelda is one of the things that made it so cool. Hmm, didn't know about the steam boat in The Phantom Hourglass. I have only played it for a few minutes, but had only heard good reviews, and I liked what I played of it. But a steam engine sounds equally dumb.

I guess I really liked what Zelda was, and dislike these anachronisms that keep popping up. Link's Awakening was such a phenominal games, especially for a gameboy title, it was easy to try to over look the phones. Cameras, steamboats and steam engines are really just going too far. But really, how long can you drag such a title on for? If they can't come up with something truely original (and stupid nonsensical things likle trains just don't cut it for me), then maybe it is time to try something new. I think Minish Cap was a great and successful attempt at this. I wouldn't even mind seeing the character of Link being abandoned and having another character significant to the Lengend of Zelda take up the mantel (and yeah, just so no one feels the need to explain it to me, I know you play different Links throughout the series. But all these Links look alike and do the exact same things.

I think The Adventures of Link did the best job of fleshing things out and making it feel like a fullfledges fantasy world. It would be cool to see something new come along that was a bit like that. Maybe even playing an entirely different character, but still being involved in some important bit of Hyrules history.Even taking on the role of young Impa would be cool. Maybe Zelda could have been kidnapped as a child and you go on a quest to rescue her. 

They could even make a game that finally explains the whole Lengend and clears up the sleeping Zelda at the beginning of the second game. Point is, they have a lot of directions they could take, and places they could go, rather than loosing so much interest in their franchise they feel the need to spice it up by adding modern techology like trains to the mix to keep it interesting.

I was about to say the same thing.  Well, I'd reiterate the desire to abandon your green-tunic-wearing pointy-eared youth, but I guess they're technically doing that if they're putting Link in a different outfit this time around.  But, yeah, screw Link.  Screw Zelda!  Do something different!  And not just a different gameplay gimmick!  Link uses a mirror.  Link uses an ocarina.  Link uses a boat.  Link shrinks himself.  Link is a wolf.  Link drives a train.  Link is a dance instructor.  Link is a stewardess.  Link is a male prostitute (although that would be interesting enough to get my attention, I think... certainly more so than the train, and it wouldn't be anachronistic).  At first it was fun realizing all these different Links and Zelda.  It made it seem like an obscure legend where there was simply one interpretation of hero that the people telling stuck into these stories.  But most of the stories are the same too!  And of course the progression is the same too.  How many underground ruins can possibly exist in Hyrule?!  Sorry, but this whole thing just killed Zelda for me.  Maybe that sounds melodramatic (and belongs in the Star Trek thread), but a dying idea can only be held up for so long, and I was on board with until this.  It's just one bad idea that completely topples the "gilded age" and lets you finally see what you'd blinded yourself to for so long.  Nintendo needs to do something original with this franchise!  I don't care how many gold discs they churn out, or how they turn Link into a Barbie-esque blank slate where he can be any random job at the turn of a hat.  They just need to scrap it and focus on doing something new with Hyrule and its inhabitants.  Do a new story.  Get a new character.  Do something.

You know, speaking of not playing as Link, there was thread over on the Zelda Universe forum about something called "Project Deluge". Basically Hyrule is flooding and you play as a some psychotic character who thinks he's Link. Check it out: http://www.zeldauniverse.net/forums/future-zelda/81252-official-valley-of-the-flood-deluge-thread.html. It was just a rumor, and was supposed to come out later this year... exactly when Spirit Tracks comes out... Too bad, since it was a pretty cool idea. They (meaning Nintendo), should turn Project Deluge into the next console Zelda game for the Wii. Most don't consider Twilight Princess a Wii game, since it was a GameCube game ported over to the Wii with motion controls tacked on... the controls were fine, but since it was never intended to be a Wii game...

Oh, and the reason for Zelda sleeping in Zelda II? Explained in the instruction manual:

"Shortly after the events of The Legend of Zelda, Link notices a strange mark on the back of his left hand, exactly like the crest of Hyrule. He seeks out Impa, who responds by taking Link to the North Castle, where a door has been magically sealed for generations. Impa places the back of Link's left hand on the door, and it opens, revealing a sleeping maiden. Impa tells Link that the maiden is Zelda, the princess of Hyrule from long ago, and the origin of the "Legend of Zelda." Zelda's brother had tried to force her into telling their recently deceased father's secrets concerning the last of three sacred golden triangle treasures of his kingdom, known collectively as the Triforce. Princess Zelda refused to reveal its location, and the prince's wizard friend, in anger, tried to strike her down with a spell. Zelda fell under a powerful sleeping spell, but it also resulted in the wizard's own death. The prince, unable to reverse the spell, had his sister placed in the castle tower, in the hope that she would one day be awakened. He decreed that females born to the royal family from that point on would be named Zelda, in remembrance of this tragedy."

I know it is "explained" in the instruction manual, but it is hardly explained. Essentially, this is the "lengend of Zelda" itself, this is the reason all girls born in the royal family are named Zelda (confusing no doubt) and all it gets in the series is a few pages in an instruction manual.

Why not make a game where you play the prince for example. You could start off wanting to be a hero, going around doing good things. Then meet the evil wizard, who you think is good. He fools you into thinking you have to find out about the triforce in order to defeat a great evil, and since you sister wont tell you the secrets of the triforce, you allow the wizard to use a harmless spell to get it out of her. Then after the spell is cast on her and you realize the wizard only wanted your help to gain control of the triforce yourself, you embark on the games main quest, to find a way to awaken your sister by breaking the spell.

Usually Zelda games have a beginning quest where you have to collect a number of item to get to the main quest (Link to the Past, the pendants; Ocarina of Time, the stones from the three temples) after which some events take place upping the stakes and starting you on a new much larger quest (A Link to the Past, Zelda is taken and the portal to the darkworld is opened; Ocarina of Time, you enter the temple of time as a kid and wake up as an adult). In this one, this game the part where you meet the wizard would be in your first small quest, then after Zelda fall under the spell the larger quest would begin.

Something like this would work, and would help answer some of those untouched questions, or at least elaborate on lore that has only been backstory until now (like how Ocarina of Time was essentially the backstory we read all those years before in A Link to the Past's instruction manual and cutscenes. It was really cool to see what was only backstory before unfold in front of your eyes with you as the player).

Yeah, that would be really cool.  The only problem is... how would a game like that end?  Obviously the prince can't succeed in his quest, because Link has to do that centuries later.

It would have to end with him making the decree that all girls born in the Kingdom would be named Zelda. Perhaps the game can end on an up beat with some oracles or sage telling him that he will not be able to wake his sister, but that one day a hero will rise who will. It could be a great segway into Link's legend, maybe explain why so many kids are named Link. Maybe the prophecy about the original Zelda's awakening mentions that it will be by a hero named Link. It would also tie Link more closely into the legend.

Originally, the events of the legend happed, then some generations later along came Link. At that point there was only one Link. Since then we have had A Link to the Past that was a prequel to the original, and Ocarina of Time, which was aprequel to A Link to the Past. And now even more games that take place before the awakening of the original sleeping Zelda. A game relating to the original legend and explaining that there will be a hero named Link would contribute to  legitimizing so many different Link's over the years.

It is kind of interesting to think that through the majority of Zelda games, there is the original sleeping Zelda locked away somewhere.Obviously they don't have any interest on revisiting this part of the legend, or they would have done so by now.

Now they would rather just have Link conducting trains.

LOL, I like your Barbie comparison Gaffer. It does feel that way. Steamboat Link™, Train Conductor Link™, Rock Super Star Link™, My Little Epona and Happy Trails Link™.

Oh yeah, in Majora's Mask, Zora Link and his electric fish bone guitar was another anachronism that really got to me.

Seems like it is always the side quest games that really go nuts with this. Though in Windwaker Link gets that stupid green GameBoy Advanced called a Tingle Locator (why does that sound somewhat dirty?) or something like that.

C3PX said:

Though in Windwaker Link gets that stupid green GameBoy Advanced called a Tingle Locator (why does that sound somewhat dirty?) or something like that.

Tingle Tuner? Something like that... I've never played Wind Waker beyond the 20-minute demo I have on my Collector's Edition disc. Though Tingle has always creeped me out. Some 40-something year old who wants a fairy? And so he dresses up like Link? If that's not creepy, then I don't know what is.

sean wookie said:

StormtroopersAreBetter said:

sean wookie said:

I hate that I can't get to the arcade channel due to having a hacked Wii.

The new arcade Virtual Console games? If you have a hacked Wii, can't you just install an emulator into the Homebrew Channel?

 

Yeah but I wouldn't mind seeing it. Or maybe buying a game to make up for all the pirating I do.

I think you would have to reformat your Wii, which you probably don't want to do since you all that stuff on there already. I'm not into the whole Wii hacking scene, so I don't know if re-formatting would even work.

StormtroopersAreBetter said:

C3PX said:

Though in Windwaker Link gets that stupid green GameBoy Advanced called a Tingle Locator (why does that sound somewhat dirty?) or something like that.

Tingle Tuner? Something like that... I've never played Wind Waker beyond the 20-minute demo I have on my Collector's Edition disc. Though Tingle has always creeped me out. Some 40-something year old who wants a fairy? And so he dresses up like Link? If that's not creepy, then I don't know what is.

That's the one! Still sounds kind of dirty. I beat the first few dungeons of Wind Waker, and then I got caught up in playing something else, and just never made it bad. I really liked the game though, wasn't half bad at all.

Tingle defines creepy. I am glade it took them until Majora's Mask to come up with him, since they have decided he seems to belong in every game from then on. Don't get the appeal of such a character, but he was pupular enough to get a few spin off games of his very own.

I agree.  It's weird that he's become such a... popular (?) character, especially in his native land.  I mean, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with him, but I don't really see anything right about him either.

Oh, I see an awful lot wrong with him!

Oh, come on.  So he wants to be a fairy and dresses in green tights.  Big deal.  It's just non-normative.  Doesn't mean it's wrong.  I just don't see why he's suddenly Nintendo's favorite supporting character.  Not that many Zelda characters cross-polinate between timelines, and none other have gotten their own spinoff series.  Why him?  Why not someone less annoying?