My review of Episode III (minor, minor spoilers) — Page 3

Author: Klingon_Jedi
Time: 19-May-2005 7:41 PM
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Personally, I take the whole "virgin birth" thing as Shmi not willing to admit, or even blocking out, that she was raped. She's a slave, been one most of her life, it seems probable to me. I usuallly leave it at that and not really think about it.

Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

Author: Hardcore Legend
Time: 19-May-2005 8:03 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
"However, Palp keeps that one in the chamber, that ace up his sleeve"

Apparently to the extent of never again mentioning it in the films, much less creating a another newer, better apprentice.

Sorry, but if it is never shown to be used, either in the past or in the subsequent films, then it never existed. It was simply one more of many lies Palpatine told Anakin throughout the Saga.

And I could see that being it as well. I'm just saying it doesn't create SUCH a giant plot loophole that we can't get past it. I mean, if we can believe that people can move their hands and move things about in the air, can't we suspend belief enough that Skywalker was merely born without a father?

As for Anakin being the 'end' of the Jedi order, Anakin or no Anakin, the Jedi were doomed. Their arrogance had blinded them to the truth of the true power of the Sith and they had stood idly by, even aiding Palp in creating his Empire. I think even if it had been Dooku along Palp's side, he would have destroyed the Jedi in the same manner as he does in this film. It may have proved more difficult, as he says that Jedi are persistent, however, he defeats Yoda on his own. Anakin loses to Obi-Wan. The only difference was Palp's wagering his life that Skywalker would stop Windu. Without Skywalker and should Dooku been by his side, Pal would not have revealed himself to Anakin and Windu would not have been certain Palp was a Sith.

Palpatine was already too powerful for the Jedi to stop, as is stated in AOTC.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 19-May-2005 8:18 PM
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"Personally, I take the whole "virgin birth" thing as Shmi not willing to admit, or even blocking out, that she was raped. She's a slave, been one most of her life, it seems probable to me. I usuallly leave it at that and not really think about it. "

First of all, when has rape ever been part of an SW film? We are talking about the conception of a main character here. Do you realize the ramifications of this?

Secondly:

Quote
A loving, soft-spoken woman, Shmi Skywalker was determined to provide a better future for her only son, Anakin, than their lives as slaves could possibly offer. She knew her son was special -- despite their hardship, Anakin was selfless, kind and gifted. His birth was extraordinary -- there was no father. Some have speculated that it was the will of the Force that created Anakin in Shmi's womb. This would suggest that Anakin is the one spoken of in an ancient Jedi prophecy -- the Chosen One who will bring balance to the Force. - OS Databank: Shmi Skywalker

Not only does that kind of speculation completely outside the scope of the films, but it is not supported in any way, shape, or form. To be honest, it's the kind of reasoning that was prevelant on TFn, and a major reason why I left those boards.

"can't we suspend belief enough that Skywalker was merely born without a father? "

Despite the fact that he eventually fulfilled all the other aspects of the prophecy? Despite this fact, this one aspect is supposed to be left out? That makes no sense either.

"Their arrogance had blinded them to the truth of the true power of the Sith and they had stood idly by, even aiding Palp in creating his Empire."

Was Padme arrogant in TPM, when she helped make him a Senator? Was Jar Jar arrogant when he asked for Palps to be granted emergency powers?

Quote
"Darth Sidious takes over the Republic, turns it into an empire and controls everything," Lucas says. "Ultimately, everybody in The Phantom Menace is a pawn. Nothing is real."

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Jaster Mareel
Time: 19-May-2005 8:25 PM
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What interview is that GL quote from, MeBeJedi?

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 19-May-2005 8:29 PM
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'Menace' opening blasts record:[FINAL Edition]Andy Seiler. USA Today. Arlington: May 21, 1999. pg. 01.E
Abstract (Article Summary)As was widely expected, Episode I: The Phantom Menace had a record-breaking opening day, pulling in an estimated $28.5 million, 20th Century Fox says. The Star Wars prequel beat record-holder The Lost World: Jurassic Park, which made $21.6 million its first day out. That puts Menace on track to break the opening weekend record, says movie analyst Jeffrey Logsdon of the Seidler Cos. The projected five-day take ranges from $120 million to $150 million. The record: The Lost World's $90.2 million in 1997. The Star Wars prequel opened at 12:01 a.m. Wednesday in 2,970 sites and is playing to full houses everywhere, Logsdon notes. "Star Wars is an embedded, built-in franchise, and it has the presale of tickets," says Logsdon, adding that word-of-mouth is more positive than anticipated. "This movie is going to play throughout the summer."
Full Text (544 words)Copyright USA Today Information Network May 21, 1999 Weekend As was widely expected, Episode I: The Phantom Menace had a record-breaking opening day, pulling in an estimated $28.5 million, 20th Century Fox says. The Star Wars prequel beat record-holder The Lost World: Jurassic Park, which made $21.6 million its first day out. That puts Menace on track to break the opening weekend record, says movie analyst Jeffrey Logsdon of the Seidler Cos. The projected five-day take ranges from $120 million to $150 million. The record: The Lost World's $90.2 million in 1997. The Star Wars prequel opened at 12:01 a.m. Wednesday in 2,970 sites and is playing to full houses everywhere, Logsdon notes. "Star Wars is an embedded, built-in franchise, and it has the presale of tickets," says Logsdon, adding that word-of-mouth is more positive than anticipated. "This movie is going to play throughout the summer." Veteran media analyst Harold Vogel isn't so sure. "The real test of it will be in the second and third weeks. It's too early to know whether there are enough people interested in seeing it four times or more." But wait -- there's more! But stop

counting box office. Start counting the days to Episode II! There are just 1,199 to go until its 2002 opening. "It takes me three years to do one of these," says creator George Lucas, now writing the fifth Star Wars movie. He wishes he had four years. "But the actors get older, and I'm in a delicate situation. I'd just as soon get this all finished, locked in and safe." Lucas reveals these details (if you'd rather stay in the dark, read no further): * Episode II is set 10 years after Menace. This means that Natalie Portman will return as Queen Amidala but that Jake Lloyd will be too young to play Anakin. "Obviously, we have to get a 20-year-old hunk to play him," Lucas says. * The Empire will strike -- big time. "Darth Sidious takes over the Republic, turns it into an empire and controls everything," Lucas says. "Ultimately, everybody in The Phantom Menace is a pawn. Nothing is real." * Lucas will direct because no other director knows so much about the digital technology. "I figured it was harder for me to explain it to somebody than to do it myself." Proof, '90s-style, that the hype for the final two films has begun: There already are Web sites devoted to them. Last month, Internet entrepreneur Chris Sherman started www.episodeII.com. "I wanted to get in on the ground floor." Other sites include www.cinescape.com and starwars.talkcity.com. Some tidbits: * Pre-production on Episode II has begun. Producer Rick McCallum tells Talk City that there have been two conceptual art department meetings and that he has seen "awesome" costume and vehicle designs. McCallum and production designer Gavin Bocquet leave shortly to scout locations. * The next one will be romantic. Lucas calls it a love story, and, according to Cinescape, it will be balanced with the background story of the Sith's relentless drive to take over the galaxy. * Background characters will come to the fore. Samuel L. Jackson and Ewan McGregor will play much larger roles. New characters will be cast toward the end of 1999. [Illustration] PHOTO, Color, Lucasfilm, Ltd.; Caption: Portman: Expected to be back in 'Episode II'

Subjects:Author(s):Andy SeilerArticle types:NewsSection:LIFEPublication title:USA Today. Arlington: May 21, 1999. pg. 01.ESource Type:NewspaperISSN/ISBN:07347456ProQuest document ID:41776940Text Word Count544

USA Today

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Hardcore Legend
Time: 19-May-2005 8:31 PM
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"You will find that Queen Amidala is naive, and will be easy to control"

I believe. The Jedi help him create his clone army, the Jedi help him fight a war that destroys much of the galaxy that would be able to combat his Empire.

Was Padme arrogant? She did circumvent the political process, and instead of allowing the Jedi to suggest remedies to the problem on her planet, she usarped the sitting Chancellor and allowed Palaptine to take control for her own greedy purposes. To an extent, I believe she was arrogant. But her blindness to the truth was not from arrogance, it was being naive.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 19-May-2005 8:36 PM
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"She did circumvent the political process, and instead of allowing the Jedi to suggest remedies to the problem on her planet, she usarped the sitting Chancellor and allowed Palaptine to take control for her own greedy purposes."

First of all, she followed the political process. It was the rest of the Senate that voted Palps into office.

Secondly, how is trying to protect her entire planet "greedy"?

Keep in mind, also, that she originally wanted to stay, and Qui-gon, the "Jedi", wanted her to go to Coruscant. She followed their bidding.

"The Jedi help him create his clone army"

Eh?

"the Jedi help him fight a war that destroys much of the galaxy that would be able to combat his Empire."

Interesting, because I think they were under the impression that they were protecting the Republic from the Separatists. Wouldn't that be naivety as well?

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Hardcore Legend
Time: 19-May-2005 8:46 PM
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When the political process was not moving at her speed, her lack of patience caused her to issue a vote of no confidence in the Chancellor, who I still to this day do not believe was corrupt.

The idea of protecting her planet is not greedy. However, putting into motion the process of a changing of the guard for the ENTIRE galaxy because she isn't getting her way is indeed greedy. Her actions set the ball in motion that the Jedi run with. The Jedi tell her they can not fight a war for her, but have no qualms about doing it for Palpatine, no matter whose name it is in. They continue to question Palpatine's motives and talk on and on about how the Dark Shroud has fallen over the Senate, but then continue to battle those who oppose the now corrupt Republic. Should they take a step back, maybe they see they are on the wrong side of the Battle. Their blind devotion to what they believe is the greater good in fact fuels Palpatine's power. I mean, how could they justify allowing him to stay in power, even if it was the will of the people?

Palpatine did not appear over night. He was obviously a Senator long enough to get himself rooted in the Senate to get voted into high office. Thus, he was not but a few miles from the Jedi temple. Yet the Jedi could not concern themselves with detecting a Sith Lord just down the street? The Sith Lord that was either the only, or one of only two in the Galaxy at the time? When you believe your the best, you don't concern yourself with what your competition may be doing. See: Yankees v Red Sox. That's called arrogance.

As for the Jedi helping him create his clone army, I have always been confused about this part.....but doesn't a Jedi order the creation of the Army? Even at that, Obi-Wan and Yoda bring the army to light, and help militarize the Republic.

The Jedi are all but extinct.......

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 19-May-2005 9:03 PM
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"I mean, how could they justify allowing him to stay in power, even if it was the will of the people? "

How could they prove otherwise?

"Palpatine did not appear over night. He was obviously a Senator long enough to get himself rooted in the Senate to get voted into high office. Thus, he was not but a few miles from the Jedi temple. Yet the Jedi could not concern themselves with detecting a Sith Lord just down the street?"

You presume they knew he was the Sith Master that whole time. Again, even if they did, who would believe them? To the rest of the Republic, he was their savior. What, exactly, did Palps do in front of the Jedi that would make them believe he was the Sith Master, to justify their actions against him?

"When you believe your the best, you don't concern yourself with what your competition may be doing. See: Yankees v Red Sox. That's called arrogance."

They were very concerned - they simply didn't know where the root of the problem was. Palps was always two steps ahead, and who, in their right mind, would seriously expect Palpatine to be the Sith Master? He didn't even show any Force use, and couldn't be sensed. What you know to be going on in the films, is quite different from what the Jedi know in the films.

"I have always been confused about this part.....but doesn't a Jedi order the creation of the Army?

Apparently, according to "Labyrinth of Evil", Sifo Dyas ordered the army because he was worried about something happening to the Republic (I've not read the book, so I don't know the specifics.) Not only was his plan designed to protect the Republic (i.e. a good thing), but the rest of the Jedi didn't even know about it (i.e. naivety.) In fact, had Dooku and Sidious not found out about the clones, then the clones would be protecting the Republic by TPM. In this case, a Jedi is doing something good that was subverted by the Sith, and yet you blame the Jedi. Furthermore, Mace and Yoda apparently believe that the clones were ordered by a Jedi (as stated by "Labyrinth of Evil") and they subsequently use those clones - who clearly aide the Jedi right off the bat - at a time when they are most needed. Even the Kaminoans believed this was for the greater good.

"Even at that, Obi-Wan and Yoda bring the army to light, and help militarize the Republic. "

So, by "stepping back and seeing what side of the battle" they are on, you mean just wait for the Separatists to invade the Republic, with a perfectly good and biologically obedient army just standing by?

Everyone thought they were doing the right thing. Nobody knew that Palps was orchestrating such a grand scheme, and yet you are laying a tremendous amount of blame on them. In fact, you accuse them of doing nothing, and yet criticize everything they do. Exactly how successful do you expect yourself to be against a person who can forsee the future and use powers of the Force against you?

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Kam
Time: 19-May-2005 9:16 PM
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Bah, I forgive nothing.
Plot contradictions, crapy dialogue, and over reliance on CGI.
This movie is all of these.

Don't forget the hideous contradiction at the end of the movie.

I will not watch it, for I neither wish to give Lucas any money or allow my vision of Anakin becoming vader to be obscured by this new version.

///

Fine, mister Lucas, while you're at it why dont you replace Lando with will smith?

Author: Klingon_Jedi
Time: 19-May-2005 9:18 PM
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I really don't see the problem with that line of thought. As I've said, it's not a big issue with me, and is not something I wish to get into a petty arguement over. I'm not really bothered by the virgin birth to deny it if it were really confirmed, but that's how my mind tends to sum it up. It may not be supported, but it's not really debunked in the films themselves. So unless one goes to outside sources, I see no real impact on anything.

Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 19-May-2005 9:18 PM
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LOL...I like your sig, Kam

So, now the debate is "petty"? Interesting...

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Klingon_Jedi
Time: 19-May-2005 9:19 PM
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My lousey internet isn't loading my browser correctly. I mean petty as in something I don't feel strongly enough to debate. Nothing more.

Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 19-May-2005 9:22 PM
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"but it's not really debunked in the films themselves."

Quote
"SHMI : There was no father, that I know of...I carried him, I gave him birth...I can't explain what happened. Can you help him? "

Let's be clear on this. Your speculation is debunked by the film, a canon source. You simply choose to not believe it. There's a difference.

[EDIT]

Well, enough of this "petty" argument. I'm going to watch ROTS now.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Hardcore Legend
Time: 19-May-2005 9:23 PM
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As Palp says" There is very little that seperates the Jedi and the Sith". Anakin does all the wrong things for all the right reasons, could not the same be said about the other Jedi?

The Jedi allow a blockade and an attempt on Padme's life to escalate into a full scale war. Did the Seperatist's declare war on the Republic or merely remove themselves from it? The Trade Federation's blockade was legal, their invasion was not. However, could it not be said that the Jedi's involvement caused Palp to order the invasion on the planet below? Qui Gon goes into the negotiations with a large enough ego to believe the negotations would be short.

Eh, I'll continue this later...for now, I'm going to bed

The Jedi are all but extinct.......

Author: Hardcore Legend
Time: 19-May-2005 9:24 PM
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What contradiction at the end?

The Jedi are all but extinct.......

Author: Klingon_Jedi
Time: 19-May-2005 9:24 PM
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Like I said, maybe she just doesn't want to admit it. Can we get back to ROTS now, or do you wish to continue ridiculing me over this? ^_^;;

Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 19-May-2005 9:29 PM
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Wow, you guys responded quickly.

"The Jedi allow a blockade and an attempt on Padme's life to escalate into a full scale war."

Uhm, this was a senate decision, hence the reason for Padme talking to the SENATE.

"The Trade Federation's blockade was legal, their invasion was not."

[Palpatine] "I will make it legal" [/Palpatine]

"However, could it not be said that the Jedi's involvement caused Palp to order the invasion on the planet below?"

Are you saying he wouldn't have invaded on his own? Would you explain how the Jedi's appearance forced Palps to do this?

"Qui Gon goes into the negotiations with a large enough ego to believe the negotations would be short."

Because the Neimodians are weak-willed. Qui-gon thought they were behind this. Again, you fault the Jedi for acting in the face of information that they did not have, but you did. Does anybody know everything about every decision they make? No one is perfect in these films or in real life, yet you blame them for being human.

"Like I said, maybe she just doesn't want to admit it."

This is more an aspect of your own thinking, rather than the direction that the film is clearly going in. Don't blame Lucas for this.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Klingon_Jedi
Time: 19-May-2005 9:33 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
This is more an aspect of your own thinking, rather than the direction that the film is clearly going in. Don't blame Lucas for this.

Where did I say I blamed Lucas? I know quite well that it's my own thinking. I never said I blamed Lucas for the idea. It's just how I interpetted it.

Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

Author: Kam
Time: 19-May-2005 9:41 PM
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Padme dying, duh!

Return of THe Jedi AND the books clearly state that Leia's real mother was alive with her on alderan, because they both went there after the twins were born.

She doesnt die until years later, then Leia becomes a princess when the King of Alderan adopts her.

///

Fine, mister Lucas, while you're at it why dont you replace Lando with will smith?

Author: Klingon_Jedi
Time: 19-May-2005 9:45 PM
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Well that's basically been usurped now Kam. I'm still trying to figure that one out.

Made for IE Forum's Episode III theme month - May 2005.

Author: Hardcore Legend
Time: 19-May-2005 9:50 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by: Kam

She doesnt die until years later, then Leia becomes a princess when the King of Alderan adopts her.

///

Right, I remember that line in ROTJ. Or was it ESB, or ANH? Man, I forget. Cause those are the only true sources for Star Wars timeline.

Quote
Are you saying he wouldn't have invaded on his own? Would you explain how the Jedi's appearance forced Palps to do this?

I haven't watched TPM lately, but doesn't Palp only order the invasion after being informed about the Jedi? Doesn't he say this move is unexpected, or something?

I feel like I'm portraying myself as hateing the Jedi here, which I'm not. But every action they took only helped, not harmed Palpatine. The blood is just as much on their hands as his. They know this, as reflected in Yoda's attitude at the end of ROTS.

Could Palp have done all this without the Jedi involvement? Probably. But they made it alot easier, whether it be through actions of arrogance or being naive, whichever you prefer. I expect alittle more foresight out of my Jedi, don't you?

The Jedi are all but extinct.......

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 19-May-2005 9:57 PM
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Back already. This film is not holding my attention very well.

"Return of THe Jedi AND the books clearly state that Leia's real mother was alive with her on alderan"

The novelizations are trumped by the films in many ways, such as Obi-wan being Owen Lars brother, and Vader deliberately planning on Palpatine being distracted by Luke.

Specifically, the novelization states:

Quote
He looked down at their intertwined fingers. "Leia…do you remember your mother? Your real mother?"

The question took her totally by surprise. She'd always felt so close to her adopted parents, it was as if they were her real parents. She almost never thought of her real mother-that was like a dream.

Yet now Luke's question made her start. Flashes from her infancy assaulted her-distorted visions of running…a beautiful woman…hiding in a trunk. The fragments suddenly threatened to flood her with emotion.

"Yes," she said, pausing to regain her composure. "Just a little bit. She died when I was very young."
"What do you remember?" he pressed. "Tell me."

"Just feelings, really…images." She wanted to let it slide, it was so out of the blue, so far from her immediate concerns…but somehow so loud inside, all of a sudden.
"Tell me," Luke repeated.

She felt surprised by his insistence, but decided to follow him with it, at least for the time being. She trusted him, even when he frightened her. "She was very beautiful," Leia remembered aloud. "Gentle and kind-but sad." She looked deeply into his eyes, seeking his intentions. "Why are you asking me this?"

Nothing here that has to be on Alderaan, and nothing that can't be a Force dream - something that Anakin had quite a few of, and Leia, being Force strong, would have them as well. As far as the film goes, Leia only states the last part.

Lucas has never been beholden to the books, so to say this is a contradiction doesn't hold up.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.

Author: Kam
Time: 19-May-2005 10:01 PM
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The line was from the movies.
Force dreams are a creation of the prequels and are therefore bullshit.

Geore Lucas originally used the books as canon, ROTJ and Empire even refer to the books occasionally (Battle of Tanab, etc). They were canon originally, so they should have been canon today.

Lucas should have built the prequels around the books and the original trilogy instead of tryibng to rape the original in favor of the prequels.

///

Fine, mister Lucas, while you're at it why dont you replace Lando with will smith?

Author: MeBeJedi
Time: 19-May-2005 10:18 PM
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Force dreams are a creation of the prequels and are therefore bullshit.

Did you forget Luke's vision of Bespin? Did you forget that he sensed something "familiar" about Dagobah?

"Geore Lucas originally used the books as canon, ROTJ and Empire even refer to the books occasionally (Battle of Tanab, etc). They were canon originally, so they should have been canon today."

Lucas has always stated that the films are the highest canon, and supercede everything else. Any information in the books that isn't contradicted by the films is considered canon.

Two things to understand:

1) LFL recognizes several levels of canon, films being the highest.

2) Lucas doesn't really care about these rules a whole lot to begin with. He is more than welcome to pick and choose what he wants from EU to put in the films.

"Lucas should have built the prequels around the books and the original trilogy instead of tryibng to rape the original in favor of the prequels."

In this, I would agree with you.

"I haven't watched TPM lately, but doesn't Palp only order the invasion after being informed about the Jedi? Doesn't he say this move is unexpected, or something?"

Yes, but again, if the Jedi are there, why does he do something illegal? He obviously had the armies ready to go anyways. If anything, they just bumped up his plans.

"Could Palp have done all this without the Jedi involvement? Probably. But they made it alot easier, whether it be through actions of arrogance or being naive, whichever you prefer."

But Force use to that extent leads to the Dark Side. There's quite a few comments about that in the novels.

Quote
"Deep in his meditations, peering through the Dark Side, Master Yoda felt a sudden surge of anger, or outrage beyond control. The diminutive Master's eyes popped wide open at the overwhelming strength of that rage.

And then he heard a voice, a familiar voice, crying, "No, Anakin! Don't! No!"

It was Qui-gon. Yoda knew that it was Qui-gon. But Qui-gon was dead, had become one with the Force! One could not retain conciousness and sense of self in that state; one could not speak from beyond the grave.

But Yoda had heard the ghostly call, and in his deep meditative state, his thoughts focused precisely as they had ever been, the Jedi Master knew that he had not been mistaken. Anakin, too, had heard the voice of Qui-gon, imploring him to restrain himself, to deny the rage. He hadn't recognized it, though, for he wa too full of pain and anger." - AOTC novelization.

"To be a Jedi, Luke, you must confront and then go beyond the dark side-the side your father couldn't get past. Impatience is the easiest door-for you, like your father. Only, your father was seduced by what he found on the other side of the door, and you have held firm. You're no longer so reckless now, Luke. You are strong and patient. And you are ready for your final confrontation." - ROTJ novelization

"I expect alittle more foresight out of my Jedi, don't you?"

But foresight through the Force isn't perfect, even for Palpatine. The films make this clear. This doesn't even touch on the fact that the Jedi couldn't use the Force as well as they would have liked, because the Dark Side was clouding them. They'd lost their most crucial tool, and yet they are still supposed to do everything right? If the batteries in your flashlight were dying, who is to be blamed if you can't see where you are going, or make a bad decision about which direction to take?

Quote
The Emperor raised his head a degree, scanning all the possible futures. "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen."

He, like Vader, had plans of his own-plans of spiritual violation, the manipulation of lives and destinies. He chuckled to himself, savoring the nearness of his conquest: the final seduction of the young Skywalker.

"He will come to me?" Vader asked skeptically. This was not what he felt. He felt drawn.

"Of his own free will," the Emperor assured him. It must be of his own free will, else all was lost. A spirit could not be coerced into corruption, it had to be seduced. It had to participate actively. It had to crave. Luke Skywalker knew these things, and still he circled the black fire, like a cat. Destinies could never be read with absolute certainty-but Skywalker would come, that was clear. "I have foreseen it. His compassion for you will be his undoing." Compassion had always been the weak belly of the Jedi, and forever would be. It was the ultimate vulnerability. The Emperor had none. "The boy will come to you, and you will then bring him before me." - ROTJ novelization

Sorry, but it's nowhere near as cut-and-dried as you make it out to be. The Sith deliberately turn people to fulfill their own will, sometimes through promises of power or goodness.

MeBeJedi: Sadly, I believe the prequels are beyond repair.
JediRandy: They’re certainly beyond any repair you’re capable of making.

MeBeJedi: You aren’t one of us.
Go-Mer-Tonic: I can’t say I find that very disappointing.

JediRandy: I won’t suck as much as a fan edit.