My S'lution to Gov't H'care — Page 5

vote_for_palpatine said:

instead having a large government or a small government,  what about a medium sized government?

A fine idea, but what is the medium? If you put Shaq into a size medium shirt, it would either rip to shreds or kill him. Put that same shirt on Kristen Chenowith and you won't find her for days.

Also, tbh=to be honest.

I think efficiency, openness, and honesty are more important than size

The problem is, we are always promised these things in the run-up to elections, and we never get them. So we end up getting behind the rhetoric we like, and the only thing that changes is that government encroachment expands no matter who's in office.

Personally, I'd prefer things like defense and healthcare in government hands as opposed to corporate ones. I don't believe either should be looked at as an opportunity for profit

The vast majority of life-saving drugs and advanced weaponry were developed here because of the profit motive. Talented people, the people who develop these things, deserve to be compensated for their talents because there is a big demand for these things. What happens when we reduce/remove the incentive to develop the next wonder drug? The next smart bomb? They'll take their talents to someone who will pay the going rate for their labors. Maybe - hopefully - that someone will be friendly to the United States. I'd rather see us continue to produce these things and sell them to the world rather than buy them.

The reality is that we are all motivated by profit. I think a better economic system is one which integrates that dynamic rather than rejects it. The Soviet Union didn't exactly dazzle the world with its exports back when it was one of the world's two biggest superpowers.

I don't think we should be so eager to produce things designed to kill people -_-.

 I once heard that the problem with socialism is that people are lazy, and the problem with capitalism is that people are greedy. I'd have to say I agree, and It's why I generally advocate a middle ground. (although my middle ground is probably more left than yours) 

Also, I trust the Democrats a bit more when it comes to  openness and transparency of government (The Bush administration was really clandestine) but neither party is absolutely great on that front.

Bingowings said:

huh?  care to explain?

Octorox said:. The market can be a great catalyst for innovation of its excesses are trimmed.

I think maybe you made a typo.   Please fix it so I can understand what you were trying to say.   thankyou.   no offense intended.

Let me try to explain Warbler.

In the far distant past when fur clad bikini girls walked with giant lizards,

they didn't have 'professionals' or 'business' if they wanted an axe or an arrow they picked up some stones and did it themselves.

Move along a bit until the invention of local herbal medicine, usually the provider was some old person (32 or something like that), and often an unmarried female and highly inflammable, who would have a vague understanding of which plants did what and filled in the blanks with a bit of the old chicken soup treatment. She knew what people could afford and knew how to scare the crap out of them if they refused.

Then came the invention of fire and men came and burned the old wise women because an invisible man spoke to them in a book and told them to do it. This left a hole in the market which was soon filled by the professional health care provider.

Out with the pointing hats and in with white coats and rubber gloves (well at least for the business end of the business). Now the job became more specialised, there was a team to do research on new cures, a team to make and measure the drugs, specialists in special things, a team for cooking chicken soup and GPs who pretty much took over from the late lamented wise woman. This was an expensive enterprise, big business may have cut down some of the costs by manufacturing and distributing in bulk but all these people needed to get paid. So it was pay up or put up with it.

Here comes Mr Insurance Man. He has this great idea.

If you keep paying him protectio....insurance contributions you won't end up at the bottom of the lake...If you get unwell he will pay for your medical care deriving a profit from the low probability you will ever get seriously ill enough to need to pay a lot for healthcare.

He works for the mob...board of directors of a major insurance provider and they want to maximise their profits so while they'll happily take your money they want to minimise their risks and introduce clauses to limit the amount they have to pay to the sort of people who would either be very likely to get ill or wouldn't be able to keep up the payments.

Here comes Mr Marx,

he has an idea that could work for everyone. It's called INTERNATION COMMUNIS...social medicine. The idea is that everyone who can pays National Insurance contributions, it's a sort of tax on jobs. Essentially everyone who works pays a bit of their income relative to their pay and this provides essential healthcare at the point of need to anyone.

No need to pay Murder Inc anymore and no need to worry about dying because you can't work due to a chronic health condition that was on the 'we don't cover for this sort of thing list' or because you have always been disabled so never could earn enough money begging on the street to pay for treatment in the first place.

Rewinding a bit....A TAX...A TAX!

You see here's the rub, people like to get things but they don't want to pay for them.

They especially don't want to pay for someone else to get something unless they are getting something in return.

As a society we all benefit from people not getting ill or getting better as soon as possible but on a personal level is it fair that this young boy

should get a nuclear warhead that I paid for?

Or these three women

why should she have this ornate national monument at my expense?

IS THIS STALIN'S RUSSIA?

We have tried the witches, the mob and the Marx brothers and they all have certain strengths and weakness to them.

What I was suggesting in that image was a new way...a fourth dimension in healthcare, possibly the next level in our evolution as a culture. Can you see it yet?

Bingowings said:

What I was suggesting in that image was a new way...a fourth dimension in healthcare, possibly the next level in our evolution as a culture. Can you see it yet?

 

so I guess you are talking about gutting the whole system?   But just what will this new 4th dimension be like?   Care to describe new idea(s) in detail?

xhonzi said:

And Thomas Jefferson and I don't always see eye-to-eye either.  Such is life and politics.

remember this?

Warbler said:

Bingowings said:

What I was suggesting in that image was a new way...a fourth dimension in healthcare, possibly the next level in our evolution as a culture. Can you see it yet?

 

so I guess you are talking about gutting the whole system?   But just what will this new 4th dimension be like?   Care to describe new idea(s) in detail?

That's a very radical interpretation of a very plain image.

If you saw this scene happen in real life what would you do?

How would you respond?

Imagine that was a loved one or even yourself about to have vital body part such as a head removed by a silent invader with murderous intent.

Would you check your bank balance?

Would you ring up an insurance company?

Would you debate the pros or cons of social policing or military spending?

Decide fast because each one of those nurses may look the same but they are in fact a living human soul, with dreams and the potential to do great and wondrous things.

well, if I were the nurse, I think I'd run away as fast as I could. If the nurse were a friend of mine or a family member(my mother was a nurse for 40 years), I think I'd try to stop the guy from harming her.

Warbler said:

well, if I were the nurse, I think I'd run away as fast as I could. If the nurse were a friend of mine or a family member(my mother was a nurse for 40 years), I think I'd try to stop the guy from harming her.

How far would you go Warbler?

What would you give to save these seemingly infinite nurses from the peril of a potentially lethal invader about to obscenely violate their vulnerable neck parts?

This is an open question.

What would you do to save the nurses from the terror of faceless death?

I suppose I could try to find some sort of heavy object to hit the guy over the head with. Maybe deck the guy. Maybe try to surprise him from behind.

xhonzi said:

Warbler said:

xhonzi said:

And Thomas Jefferson and I don't always see eye-to-eye either.  Such is life and politics.

remember this?

Sure.  It's another fabulous example of him and me not seeing eye-to-eye.  But the point was this: That's what small Gov't proponents wanted back in the day. 

When you say "a little bigger than the conservatives want and a little smaller than the liberals want"  we're already WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY past that point.

Bingowings said:

Warbler said:

Bingowings said:

What I was suggesting in that image was a new way...a fourth dimension in healthcare, possibly the next level in our evolution as a culture. Can you see it yet?

 

so I guess you are talking about gutting the whole system?   But just what will this new 4th dimension be like?   Care to describe new idea(s) in detail?

That's a very radical interpretation of a very plain image.

If you saw this scene happen in real life what would you do?

How would you respond?

Imagine that was a loved one or even yourself about to have vital body part such as a head removed by a silent invader with murderous intent.

Would you check your bank balance?

Would you ring up an insurance company?

Would you debate the pros or cons of social policing or military spending?

Decide fast because each one of those nurses may look the same but they are in fact a living human soul, with dreams and the potential to do great and wondrous things.

I'd make her pay her fair share of taxes!  Did you know that because she makes less than $50,000 year and has 2 kids (whore!), she pays NO TAXES??!!!?!

I didn't know that.

Yes, it's true.  She is a whore!

Which one there are a seemingly infinite number of nurses are you saying they are all 'ladies of the night' nurses?

Not professional whores, of course.  Only if they are getting paid for the kids.

I guess women that receive child support could be considered 'ladies of the night.'

What the hell am I talking about?  This is what you guys are doing to me.  I tried to take over the off-topic forum by making it extra silly, but today everyone is going on with serious discussion about healthcare, the Pope, the death penalty, etc. etc. etc.  And I KIND OF FEEEL LIIKE I'M LOSING MY MIND!!

See, I can't even post my insane evil dead guy picture anymore!  ARRRGHHH!  BANG!

ah good, he killed himself.   back to the serious discussion.  

Sorry, but no.  BANG! is just the washertroop's catchphrase.

oh, ok.   *borrows Ferris's gun,  aims it at Frink, fires gun . . . .* bang!!!  . . . . thud.

back to topic. 

Sorry again.  "*borrows Ferris's gun,  aims it at Frink, fires gun . . . .* bang!!!  . . . . thud." is your catchphrase.

No that's my catchphrase!