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Originally posted by: ricarleite
there are no strong left-wing parties in america
what about Nader and the Green party?
My Generation Rocks!! — Page 2
what about Nader and the Green party?
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The thing about the parties is that most Americans are a bit right or a bit left of the center, but parties tend to cause politicians to cave into speacial interests--which makes them seem far left or far right, even if it isn't what the voters really want.
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Originally posted by: RRS-1980Quote
Originally posted by: Kingsama
What a load of blankity blank blank. [...] But you should stick with your oversimplified, over generalized thought process. You should start making race based remarks next, cause they are as equally founded as your remarks above...
My dear junior forum member, I will forgive you this unfair comment towards me (which I find greatly disturbing), because you don't know how can I feel after writing many eloquent posts in Bush Jr/9-11/Iraq related threads... Most of replies made by Bush supporters could be shortly summed up as "You're plain wrong, Dubya is the best, he has great strategery". That's it, no detailed descriptions and analysis of current gov. policies, no extrapolations on what may happen in the future given that US will follow the present way.... just plain old stubbornness and blind faith in The Leader. (although I admit the main culprit was jimbo and not Darth Chaltab)
I - on the other hand - can sometimes understand Republicans & Bush supporters and even agree with them "from a certain point of view" on particular issues. What I observed, is that they are less likely do a similar thing: to think for a moment, what would it be to be in Democrats' shoes.
This is why I wrote this exaggerated post, because I was too tired to pick up the glove and start yet another, pointless debate - pointless, because the other side won't change its mind. Period. After all, this is what we call them conservatives, right?
the post was meant as a half joke... I normally dont use such terms as blankity blank blank when i am being serious, i suppose the lack of voice inflection technology hindered that from getting through. But i still dont understand your "greatly disturbed" feeling i imagine that any time you make such stereotypical statements you should get a little something thrown back at you. As for you experience in this form, you are right i dont know, but your comment as i read it wasnt aimed at just Jimmy boy, or DC, but seemed to be a blanket statement to all conservatives. If you were truely only pointing out the statements in a previous discussion with a previous person then you should have stated so, instead of maligning everyone under the conservative banner... the one thing i do agree with you on is the need to avoid further discussion on politics, i doubt that either one of us will shift positions...
the you arent american thing wasnt ment to be deragatory, it was simply to state you arent from here, and perhaps dont see the world in the same context that someone from here would see the world.
I am somewhat saddened by the fact that you took my clinton is a socialist comment as a slur, i thought i stated earlier that it wasnt good or bad, but just a fact. There are many socialist in the democratic party, and the are very left for this country. And if the dems are right winged for most other countries, that just solitifies my desire to stay here. No offense, but i prefer different ideals. Just a preferance thing i suppose.
the funny thing about o'rielly is that no matter what quality of a news cast host you see him to be he more than doubles the next most watched cable news show, which happens to be hannity and colmbs. And i dont think anyone considers his show to be a news cast, he is more of an analyst if you will.
and thanks for the imput on the news i have always been curious about that.
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QuoteAn excellent point to make.
Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Nader and the Green Party could hardly be considered mainstream. If he's lucky, he'll get 2% of the popular vote.
The thing about the parties is that most Americans are a bit right or a bit left of the center, but parties tend to cause politicians to cave into speacial interests--which makes them seem far left or far right, even if it isn't what the voters really want.
Kerry supported the war, until the Deaniacs showed that an anti-war stance was helping Howard "The Scream" Dean, and Kerry began to take an anti-war stance, then people started supporting him, Dean screamed, and it was over.
Although, I haven't heard a great deal from Kerry about environmental policy, beyond things relating to oil.
Bush has done some political manuvering as well. There is a political trick I've heard about where you take your rival parties most important issue, and use it yourself. Clinton did this several times during his presidency (not sure, but I think NAFTA was one of them). Bush used it with the prescription drugs program.
Just wanted to quickly add, the Green Party isn't what I would consider strong left-wing. You want to know what group worries me on the left? ELF. Say hello to America's unsung terrorist group.
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Originally posted by: Regicidal_ManiacQuote
Originally posted by: ricarleite
OK, somehow I feel some people will get angry at me... Geez I promised to get away from political discussions, but they pull me back again!
"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!" - Michael Corleone
Here in Oz we get loads of American news in our nightly newsbroadcasts, you know being a contender for the 51st state and all.
The thing that surprises me is the disparity of information between OUR reports of an event and the NBC news or CNN news reports or other reports of the same events. On our ABC and SBS the reporting is far more detailed than the reports from Americas own stations which will usually only have a portion of a soundbyte whereas our reports will include said soundbyte in context.
I used to be annoyed at how much focus some other country got in our news but I guess it is important seeing as how he who controls Rome controls the world. It's a pity then that the rest of the world has no say in your elections which end up impacting our lives.
"It never ends!" - Kay
Exactly, there is a disparity of information, but there are news that are not publicized on north america at all. During the 2000 election, the whole plot of voters being taken out of voting lists in Florida was being publicized over here and on Europe as well, but as far as I know, and I might be wrong, this was only turned public on the USofA almost 2 years later! And the whole connection between Bush and BinLadens, I remember reading about it one week after 9/11, and then it took for Michael Moore almost 3 years to make it public on Fahrenheit 9/11!?! Which is why I don't give him so much credit for that movie, he only pointed out the obvious in a propagandish way. (besides he is one lousy editor, talk about movie pacing problems!)
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Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
actually i feel sorry for your generation...
lol
they havent the slightest clue what they're voting for...
I TEND TO AGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT. THE BASE THEIR VOTE ON EITHER WHAT THEIR COLLEGE PROFESSOR'S POLITICAL VIEWS ARE OR WHAT DOCKUMENTARIES THEY'VE SEEN. UNFORTUNATELY THIS DOES NOT CONSTITUTE AS AN EDUCATED VOTER.
"I'VE GROWN TIRED OF ASKING, SO THIS WILL BE THE LAST TIME..."
The Mangler Bros. Psycho Dayv Armchaireviews Notes on Suicide
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QuoteActually, this particular vote was done by high school age and lower students. At the library where I work, I helped one 10-12 year old with a questions on the Channel One webpage.
Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYVQuoteI TEND TO AGREE WITH THAT STATEMENT. THE BASE THEIR VOTE ON EITHER WHAT THEIR COLLEGE PROFESSOR'S POLITICAL VIEWS ARE OR WHAT DOCKUMENTARIES THEY'VE SEEN. UNFORTUNATELY THIS DOES NOT CONSTITUTE AS AN EDUCATED VOTER.
Originally posted by: Luke Skywalker
actually i feel sorry for your generation...
lol
they havent the slightest clue what they're voting for...
She wanted to know what liberal and conservative meant. It was a tough question for me because I didn't want to let myself spew any kind of bias. What I ended up telling her was that someone who is conservative is more likely to agree with Bush, and someone who is liberal is more likely to agree with Kerry. That seemed to be a good enough explanation for her.
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In the 1970s something like FoxNews--undisputedly non liberal, and some would say even conservative--would never have existed. Also, there are conservative radio stations including but not limited to Rush Limbaugh to counteract the liberal biased broadcast TV networks. Voting along party lines is stupid, but it was and still is largely influenced by biased media outlets.
And for the record, I intend to register as an idependent when I'm old enough to vote.
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Originally posted by: Kingsama
I dont think it has anything to do with any generation, nor politics, nor culture. In my experience people of all generations, and pertaining to many different topics, practice the blind obedience rule.
THAT IS ALSO TRUE. PEOPLE NEED TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES WHEN IT COMES TO VOTING.
"I'VE GROWN TIRED OF ASKING, SO THIS WILL BE THE LAST TIME..."
The Mangler Bros. Psycho Dayv Armchaireviews Notes on Suicide
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Princess Leia: I happen to like nice men.
Han Solo: I'm a nice man.
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Originally posted by: Lethe
I think this election will set records for number of first time voters...and by the time the next election rolls around people will be more motivated to "get smart" on the issues. Thats a lot of wishful thinking though.
Hey, one can hope...
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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I guess I have to say, economically im more in favor of Bush. But everything else I side decidedly against him on. So I try to question that economic stuff more. I feel like the only way you can be sure of your stance is if you have to defend it.
The majority of my dissent with Bush comes from outside his economic policy.
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QuoteI think elections will set records for the number of dead voters and Disney characters.
Originally posted by: Lethe
I think this election will set records for number of first time voters...and by the time the next election rolls around people will be more motivated to "get smart" on the issues. Thats a lot of wishful thinking though.
We've already seen here in Ohio that Mary Poppins, Dick Tracy, Michael Jordan and more almost got their voter registration in, thanks to a man being payed off in crack.
::From the Cleveland Plain Dealer, 10/19/2004::
QuoteThere is also a story about over 1,200 voter registrations being checked in Cleveland. The name Jive Turkey Sr. kind of clued in election officials to the possibility that some have been made up.
On Monday, sheriff's deputies arrested Chad Staton, 22, of Defiance, who admitted to investigators that he filled out about 130 registration cards, making up the names and addresses. He said he was hired by a Toledo woman to solicit voter registrations.
She gave him a choice of cash or drugs for his work, Westrick said. He chose crack cocaine.
Finally, while I have no documented story to back it up (sorry, I've been looking), I keep hearing reports about voter registration in Franklin County Ohio, where they are approximately 20,000 more people registered to vote than people of voting age.
...
Hey, what do you know, I found one article:
Republicans, Democrats Trade Accusations of Voter Disenfranchisement
Key Paragraph: "I will tell you what is going on in Ohio that is a concern. If you look at Franklin County, the center of the state, a very important county in the election, there are 815,000 people, according to a census, 18 (years) or older, eligible to vote. There are 845,000 registered voters."
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The perfect voting machine would scan your retina--and your finger on a touchscreen--so if you tried to vote twice, it wouldn't let you reguardless of registration. Of course, that would mean that parents could'n take their kids in voting booths, but I think that is acceptable if it eliminates voter fraud.
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--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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I really wasn't being entirely serious. It would be a good thing to have, but it isn't techno-economically possible yet. Retina scanners aren't excactly common equipment.
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Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
True. But I'm sure something could be thought up to prevent absentee fraud.
I really wasn't being entirely serious. It would be a good thing to have, but it isn't techno-economically possible yet. Retina scanners aren't excactly common equipment.
I know you weren't being serious. It is so far from being cost effective. I just wondered if you had thought that far through the idea. Had to ask.
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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Have you heard about the trouble in Pennsylvania??
Counties which should have had their absentee ballots mailed by September 20, have not done so. In some cases, this is because of a court case attempting to get Nader on the ballot.
Now, many of these same counties are asking for an extention for absentee ballots to be sent in by. Pennsylvania law states that absentee ballots must be received by 5PM on October 29.
A judge has struck down the request for an extention. The only way to get the extention now, is an executive order by the governor.
Their governor is a democrat by the name of Ed Rendell. He has not as yet said he would sign such an order.
Now, the interesting part: Your average Pennsylvania citizen shouldn't have trouble getting their vote in on time. If no extention is granted, the people who's votes will not be counted are deployed military, in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is roughly 16,000 people from Pennsylvania.
Recent polls indicate that 73% of people in the service would vote for Bush.
So, to sum up, it looks like a Democrat is going to disenfranchise the members of our military. Regardless of whether you support the war or not, don't tell me that its right to disenfranchise our military.
And before you start telling me about "black disenfranchisement" in 2000, let me quote some numbers from the Commision on Civil Rights that conducted a 6-month investigation into Florida's election:
From The 2000 Election: Where's the Disenfranchisement?
The Commission's report asserts that the use of a convicted felons list "has a disparate impact on African Americans." "African Americans in Florida were more likely to find their names on the list than persons of other races."
Other points not in the Commission's report:
Whites were twice as likely as blacks to be placed on the list erroneously, not the other way around.
According to the Palm Beach Post, more than 6,500 ineligible felons voted, despite having their names on the 'convicted felons list. The biggest problem then was that the list ended up allowing ineligible voters to cast a ballot--not that it prevented voters from casting a ballot.
The sole piece of supporting evidence it cites a table with data on Miami-Dade County. Blacks were racially targeted, according to the report, because they account for almost two thirds of the names of the felon list but were less than one-seventh of Florida's population. It is not only meaningless but irrelevant. The vast majority of the people on the felons' list were properly listed. It was illegal for them to vote according to Florida law.
Research revealed that 239 for the 4,678 African Americans on the Miami-Dade felons' were eventually cleared to vote which represented 5.1 percent of the total number of blacks on the felons list. Of the 1,264 whites on the list, 125 proved to be there by mistake-which is 9.9 percent of the total. The error rate for whites was almost double that for blacks.
The Commission did not hear from a single witness who was prevented from voting as a result of being erroneously identified as a felon. One witness did testify that he was erroneously removed from the voter list because he had been mistaken for another individual on the felon list whose name and birth date were practically identical to his. However, he was able to convince precinct officials that there had been a clerical error, and he was allowed to vote.
The Commission completely ignored the bigger story: Approximately 5,600 felons voted illegally in Florida on November 7, approximately 68 percent of whom were registered Democrats. The Miami Herald discovered that, "among the felons who cast presidential ballots, there were "62 robbers, 56 drug dealers, 45 killers, 16 rapists, and 7 kidnappers. At least two who voted were pictured on the state's on-line registry of sexual offenders."
Furthermore, the Post found no more than 108 "law-abiding" citizens of all races that "were purged from the voter rolls as suspected criminals, only to be cleared after the election." In fact during all the various lawsuits against Florida, only two people testified they weren't allowed to vote because their names were mistakenly on the list.
Of the 19,398 voters removed from the rolls, more than 14,600 matched a felon by name, birth date, race and gender.
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Mark my words, no matter who wins, there is going to be a lawsuit filed in this election and none of us will decidedly know the winner until at least a week after the election is over. 2000 screwed it up and set a new precedent for how the President is chosen. The election will never be the same.
--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
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--Vizzini (Wallace Shawn), The Princess Bride
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Kevin A
Webmaster/Primary Cynic
kapgar.typepad.com
kapgar.com