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Movies with wrong color grading *** UPDATED *** — Page 7

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Added the movies of the previous post in the first one, plus other found in this very thread and around the net.

Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com |

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_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Movies that deserve a restoration:

  • A.I. Artificial Intelligence
  • Big Trouble In Little China
  • The Fog
  • Minority Report - just doing a [spoRv] project right now
  • Mission: Impossible

Movies with few differences between the DVD and BD editions (sometimes are barely noticeable, other times limited only to some scenes):

  • The Day After Tomorrow
  • Daylight
  • E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial
  • The Fifth Element
  • Gladiator
  • Godzilla
  • Hellboy
  • Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
  • Stargate
  • Titanic
  • Waterworld

 Was BTILC changed a lot? I just got the new Arrow release 

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 (Edited)

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Movies that deserve a restoration:

  • A.I. Artificial Intelligence
  • Big Trouble In Little China
  • The Fog
  • Minority Report - just doing a [spoRv] project right now
  • Mission: Impossible

Movies with few differences between the DVD and BD editions (sometimes are barely noticeable, other times limited only to some scenes):

  • The Day After Tomorrow
  • Daylight
  • E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial
  • The Fifth Element
  • Gladiator
  • Godzilla
  • Hellboy
  • Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
  • Stargate
  • Titanic
  • Waterworld

Actually a blanket teal tint has been added to the whole of the titanic blu-ray that was not on the dvd and its pretty noticable IMHO. Not sure if its worthy of a 'restoration' per say but definately of colour correction to remove the teal tint which I have already done. Those that want to see what I mean can go to tehparadox and search for 'kk650 titanic', I put up screencap comparisons clearly showing the teal tint across the whole film. You can also see the difference between the blu-ray and dvd on the capaholic website here: http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergleiche/multi_comparison.php?disc1=1493&disc2=1492&cap1=14061&cap2=14045&art=full&image=1&hd_multiID=114&action=1&lossless=#vergleich .

The Gladiator dvd looks totally different to the remastered blu-ray as well, so much so that I actually went ahead and recreated the dvd look of gladiator in HD by using a high quality open matte hdtv release and reframing it shot by shot to match the dvd framing as closely as possible. Never got round to releasing it though, wasn't sure whether people would be interested.

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dvdmike said:

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Movies that deserve a restoration:

  • A.I. Artificial Intelligence
  • Big Trouble In Little China
  • The Fog
  • Minority Report - just doing a [spoRv] project right now
  • Mission: Impossible

Movies with few differences between the DVD and BD editions (sometimes are barely noticeable, other times limited only to some scenes):

  • The Day After Tomorrow
  • Daylight
  • E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial
  • The Fifth Element
  • Gladiator
  • Godzilla
  • Hellboy
  • Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
  • Stargate
  • Titanic
  • Waterworld

 Was BTILC changed a lot? I just got the new Arrow release 

It has a less warm look compared to the DVD, and it's dimmer. I don't really know what the colors should look like. However, it looks leagues better then the dvd in terms of detail. My complaint is it only has remixed audio.

Star Trek: The Motion Picture - Director’s Edition HD Recreation
Duel (1971) - The Hybrid Cut
The Phantom of the Opera - 1925 Version Reconstruction - Rare Scores Collection - Roy Budd Score

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Kong, you did a good job with Titanic... and you were faster than me... I hate you! (^^,) (^^,) (^^,)

At least, I have some fun doing "Minority Report" lately...

BTILC color grading on BD is not that bad; but the fact that is a John Carpenter movie, lead me to consider it for a future preservation, along with "The Fog"...

Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com |

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_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Kong, you did a good job with Titanic... and you were faster than me... I hate you! (^^,) (^^,) (^^,)

hehe there's more than enough films needing fixing for the both of us. ;)

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captainsolo said:

The original film was supposed to have been so dark that people complained. Judging by just how dark Returns was printed, I can completely see that happening. On the untouched still form above you can see all the video nasties from LD era magnified and just how much everything was overbrightened to compensate. This was a common practice then and even is still upheld today. I always have my CRT dialed back a bit to mimic film a bit more, and I do this especially when watching the first film because it feels more appropriate.

I found the bit about the video telecine being brightened in the old Widescreen Review articles on the LDs for both films.

There's a 35mm print of Batman '89 on eBay right now, starting at $500: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BATMAN-ORIGINAL-35MM-FEATURE-FILM-/221355280283?

Anybody wanna chip in so we can find out just how dark the original was?

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ElectricTriangle said:

dvdmike said:

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Movies that deserve a restoration:

  • A.I. Artificial Intelligence
  • Big Trouble In Little China
  • The Fog
  • Minority Report - just doing a [spoRv] project right now
  • Mission: Impossible

Movies with few differences between the DVD and BD editions (sometimes are barely noticeable, other times limited only to some scenes):

  • The Day After Tomorrow
  • Daylight
  • E.T.: The Extra-Terrestrial
  • The Fifth Element
  • Gladiator
  • Godzilla
  • Hellboy
  • Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
  • Stargate
  • Titanic
  • Waterworld

 Was BTILC changed a lot? I just got the new Arrow release 

It has a less warm look compared to the DVD, and it's dimmer. I don't really know what the colors should look like. However, it looks leagues better then the dvd in terms of detail. My complaint is it only has remixed audio.

 The Arrow disc has a 2.0 LPCM track 

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TServo2049 said:

captainsolo said:

The original film was supposed to have been so dark that people complained. Judging by just how dark Returns was printed, I can completely see that happening. On the untouched still form above you can see all the video nasties from LD era magnified and just how much everything was overbrightened to compensate. This was a common practice then and even is still upheld today. I always have my CRT dialed back a bit to mimic film a bit more, and I do this especially when watching the first film because it feels more appropriate.

I found the bit about the video telecine being brightened in the old Widescreen Review articles on the LDs for both films.

There's a 35mm print of Batman '89 on eBay right now, starting at $500: http://www.ebay.com/itm/BATMAN-ORIGINAL-35MM-FEATURE-FILM-/221355280283?

Anybody wanna chip in so we can find out just how dark the original was?

 Why am I always broke in January :(

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I would not necessarily say the timing is wrong but the color timing of the anime film Akira is different on the blu ray from the Criterion collection laserdisc.

Obviously they are not both from the o-neg only the blu ray is.

And i wonder if that is why the colors are so different.

“Always loved Vader’s wordless self sacrifice. Another shitty, clueless, revision like Greedo and young Anakin’s ghost. What a fucking shame.” -Simon Pegg.

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I know Criterion is often contractually obligated to use the video the studio provides them, but sheesh... sometimes you should just say no thanks and work on that Criterion Blu-ray of Cabin Boy instead.

Project Threepio (Star Wars OOT subtitles)

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_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

  • Waterworld: few differences

I don't know whether this is helpful or not, but apparently the HD DVD of Waterworld is from a different source than the Blu-ray. Do you know whether it has the same changes?

If you can give an example (preferably with pics) of something that's changed then I can compare against my HD DVD and see which colours it uses.

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CatBus said:

I know Criterion is often contractually obligated to use the video the studio provides them, but sheesh... sometimes you should just say no thanks and work on that Criterion Blu-ray of Cabin Boy instead.

I believe that it's Twilight Time that has to release what they get; Criterion tend to produce unique masters. The Thief color revision is (groan) an intentional Michael Mann choice, and was probably a prerequisite for his participation. It's annoying that this keeps happening.

“That’s impossible, even for a computer!”

“You don't do ‘Star Wars’ in Dobly.”

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StarThoughts said:

CatBus said:

I know Criterion is often contractually obligated to use the video the studio provides them, but sheesh… sometimes you should just say no thanks and work on that Criterion Blu-ray of Cabin Boy instead.

I believe that it’s Twilight Time that has to release what they get; Criterion tend to produce unique masters. The Thief color revision is (groan) an intentional Michael Mann choice, and was probably a prerequisite for his participation. It’s annoying that this keeps happening.

Star Trek: The Motion Picture - Director’s Edition HD Recreation
Duel (1971) - The Hybrid Cut
The Phantom of the Opera - 1925 Version Reconstruction - Rare Scores Collection - Roy Budd Score

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 (Edited)

The catch-22 is that if all these films were public domain, we wouldn't get these 4K original-negative restorations of them. The studios would still have the original materials, but would probably be unwilling to loan them out for some outside release that wouldn't make any money for them.

Culturally significant old PD films do sometimes get great restorations, but also keep in mind that films whose copyrights lapsed in the States, like Metropolis and the British Hitchcock films, always looked like absolute shit until we got restorations bankrolled by the German or British rights-holders.

It's certainly a double-edged sword, but the modern near-perpetuity copyrights at least keep them secured under the control of deep-pocketed entities that can fund restorations.

It's not the studio who is to blame in this case - it's the director, and that has nothing to do with copyright, and everything to do with how prominent directors are given control to tweak their earlier works due to their high regard in the industry and the film culture.

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StarThoughts said:

CatBus said:

I know Criterion is often contractually obligated to use the video the studio provides them, but sheesh... sometimes you should just say no thanks and work on that Criterion Blu-ray of Cabin Boy instead.

I believe that it's Twilight Time that has to release what they get; Criterion tend to produce unique masters. The Thief color revision is (groan) an intentional Michael Mann choice, and was probably a prerequisite for his participation. It's annoying that this keeps happening.

 Nope, Criterion get what they are given.

See for example nearly all the Universal titles

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TServo2049 said:

The catch-22 is that if all these films were public domain, we wouldn't get these 4K original-negative restorations of them. The studios would still have the original materials, but would probably be unwilling to loan them out for some outside release that wouldn't make any money for them.

Culturally significant old PD films do sometimes get great restorations, but also keep in mind that films whose copyrights lapsed in the States, like Metropolis and the British Hitchcock films, always looked like absolute shit until we got restorations bankrolled by the German or British rights-holders.

It's certainly a double-edged sword, but the modern near-perpetuity copyrights at least keep them secured under the control of deep-pocketed entities that can fund restorations.

It's not the studio who is to blame in this case - it's the director, and that has nothing to do with copyright, and everything to do with how prominent directors are given control to tweak their earlier works due to their high regard in the industry and the film culture.

You're probably right. I just resent Disney killing the public domain so they can own a mouse.

Star Trek: The Motion Picture - Director’s Edition HD Recreation
Duel (1971) - The Hybrid Cut
The Phantom of the Opera - 1925 Version Reconstruction - Rare Scores Collection - Roy Budd Score

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 (Edited)

It's a much bigger issue than Disney, trust me. There are other parties who were pushing for the same thing - the Gershwin estate, the Rodgers estate, probably the Berlin estate too. Disney just gets singled out because everyone knows Mickey Mouse.

All this aside, the issue with color grading is often (but not always) filmmakers being given carte blanche to change their movie because it's their movie, and possibly (as someone theorized) as a condition of participation on commentaries or documentaries.

In a lot of other cases it's post/transfer houses who seem to have no understanding of what an older film is supposed to look like, and regrade everything in line with modern sensibilities, or to make it pop on a digital LCD display.

If only someone grading an older film were required to have worked as a film projectionist, like poita was...

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This isn't meant to be a discussion of copyright, anyways.

Here's an odd one. In every transfer of The Land Before Time, going back to the VHS, the early scenes with baby Littlefoot have him looking gray or even purple, instead of brown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJg3GP4tH94

But I found this image from a recently-ended auction for a 35mm print:

The same scene looks warmer, and Littlefoot looks more brownish - closer to how he looks in the rest of the film.

In fact, I have a 720p MKV of the HDTV transfer, and looking at it against the other screencaps from that auction, the whole film seems to have a warmer cast in the 35mm.

I wonder, has every transfer been inaccurate to the theatrical timing, and nobody ever realized it?

(The screenshots also show that it has a bit more picture on all four sides than any of the 4:3 OR widescreen transfers. Would be cool to get that print if it were ever relisted - it was $260 and ended with no bids.)

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Opinions on "Demolition Man"? I think the best color grading should lie in the middle, towards the BD...

Sadly my projects are lost due to an HDD crash… 😦 | [Fundamental Collection] thread | blog.spoRv.com | fan preservation forum: fanres.com |

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Like I say a lot in here all WB movies are incorrect on BD, Demolition man is very teal pushed and I think the DVD was too pink like all 90s masters.

It was way more black and white if that makes sense