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Mother arrested for leaving children "unattended"

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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23594474/

This is totally asinine.

I use to leave my son in a locked car every morning before going off to work. I take him outside, put him in his car seat, then lock the car and go back inside to grab what I need for work. My biggest fear has always been some stupid neighbor or stupid cop thinking my child is "in danger" because he's strapped into the seat on a chilly morning in a locked car. The time limit in California for leaving a child unattended is 3 minutes. This was in Chicago, but it looks like she was within 30 feet for about 2 mins.

This is the type of stupid shit cops should get heat for. This guy wasn't enforcing the law (she was on her way back to the car when he stopped her), he was acting like a jerk. So now they might throw her in jail for a year and fine her. Yeah, that'll make the kids grow up so much better not having a mommy for a year. MORONS!
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What? Our beloved moderator, Moth3r has been arrested for neglecting his kid? No.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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C3PX said:

What? Our beloved moderator, Moth3r has been arrested for neglecting his kid? No.

I swear that's what I thought at first :D My brain read Moth3r instead of Mother.
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WOW... that's all.

A Goon in a Gaggle of 'em

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PSYCHO_DAYV said:

THERE'S A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT CAN HAPPEN TO A CHILD THAT HAS BEEN LEFT IN A CAR FOR EVEN JUST ONE MINUTE.


I have to agree with PSYCHO_DAYV.

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We simply don't know ALL the details and circumstances. Was she really in sight of the vehicle? Exactly how long was she away? What else was in the vehicle with the child? (i.e. big ol' bag of pesticide behind her) Then you lump in the fact she was probably arrogant and cocky to the Officer on scene. Oh, BTW, you don't have to answer incriminating questions, BUT you must answer basic questions like your name, your child's name, your address, your phone number. I have threw several people in jail because they thought that they didn't have to answer those simple questions.
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vbangle said:

PSYCHO_DAYV said:

THERE'S A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT CAN HAPPEN TO A CHILD THAT HAS BEEN LEFT IN A CAR FOR EVEN JUST ONE MINUTE.


I have to agree with PSYCHO_DAYV.



Did any of you read the freaking story?! It was SLEATING outside. Her child was ASLEEP. Her other child wanted to put money into the salvation army can. She pulled up to a loading zone. Got out of the car and LOCKED the car. Her and her other child ran to the can (10 yards or 30 ft), put the money in, and then went back to the car. At that point, the officer actually kept them from getting back to the car.

I would normally defend the police ferris, as I've done plenty of times before, but in this case it was just overboard. The baby was asleep, the car was locked, she was 10 yards away, and the officer actually kept her from getting back to the car. She had to call her husband who told her not to say anything and when he got there she was in the squad car. She now faces up to a year in prison and a fine for "child endangerment".

Don't get me started about what can or can't happen to a child if left alone for even a minute DAVY. If the child is asleep and it's raining, I would've done the same thing. There's no need to wake up a baby and take it out into the rain when you're stopping and locking the car for less than a couple of minutes. A baby that's asleep and strapped into a car seat isn't going to go anywhere.

I also happen to know that the only thing my 15 month old has ever done is take off his shoes and socks (doesn't like wearing them for some reason). Other than that, I've left him in a locked car and he hasn't done anything. Locked car with no keys in the ignition.
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I couldn't agree more than we need to protect children, and sometimes parents are not fit to be parents. A lot of kids die tragically from neglect and incompetance. It is really ashame. However, there are many cases of an over stepping of boundarys and an invasion of people rights. Yeah, we only know one side of this story, and it seems she was dumb enough to refuse to give the officer information that she was obligated to give. It is pathetic if this woman ends up in jail for something so tiny, that certianly doesn't help her kids any. Even the fear and stress from having your mom get arrested in front of you and the drama of her going to court with the possibility of her being taken away for a period of time seems like it could be something pretty upsetting for a kid, maybe even tramatizing.

This woman doesn't sound like a truely neglectful parent, sounds like she made a bad judgement call at the absolute worst, while there are parents out there destroying their child's lives at this very moment. Kind of a shame when we put so much effort into nailing parents on things like this they do in front of the eyes of others, while the guy who is having sex with six year old unseen by anyone manages to get away with it.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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The lady even said that if she had gone into the store and been shopping, she would've absolutely deserved to be arrested. She hadn't even gone into the store though.

Child protection laws were meant to protect kids from parents that forget about them in the car while they do shopping or do whatever else, especially on hot days. Those laws were most certainly not meant for cases like this. As an example, there's a 3 minute limit in California for how long you can leave a child unattended in a car. I think it's set at 3 minutes because that's how long a car can take to heat up in the middle of summer.
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I'm not defending the police, simple pointing out that we only have the newspapers rendition of the event. In my experience, I have found the media to be very slanted and often misrepresents things. Which is why I still have some doubt as to what occurred. I usually reserve judgment on most things I see in media until I can read any official reports or documents, simply because there are two sides to every story.
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Sounds like a bit of reason and common sense would have helped in the confrontation. Neither the woman nor the officer were behaving like they should have. I'm most disappointed with the police officer, however, since he should know better. The authority of a parent with a child is sacred to me and women can get emotional where their children are concerned. I hope that both of them have learned a lesson here.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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"She snapped a few pictures of the girls donating money and headed back to the car. But a community service officer blocked her way." - from original article

I'm not so certain the first officer on scene was a Police Officer. Public Service Officers are usually non-commissioned uniformed employees of cities who do not have arrest authority. Now, they can detain and call for a Police Officer if they believe a crime has occurred.

As for the main story, yeah, hopefully everybody learned whatever lesson they should have. Again, we do not truly know what the scene was like. However, with what I do know about it, I do not think I would have approached it with full on charges and an arrest. I would have scolded the lady. Even if she got an attitude, I'm fairly certain I could shut her down with reason and facts.

Look kids get kidnapped and/or die everyday. I don't care how far she away she was, several things could have happened to that baby including kidnapping, another car smashing into the van, the baby could have choked on something and died, or even just slip out of the seat and break it's neck. You cannot leave a child unattended at all, even to walk 15 ft, it is just not safe.

But I guess it's all a moot point now that charges have been dropped. Oh well.
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ferris209 said:

Look kids get kidnapped and/or die everyday. I don't care how far she away she was, several things could have happened to that baby including kidnapping, another car smashing into the van, the baby could have choked on something and died, or even just slip out of the seat and break it's neck. You cannot leave a child unattended at all, even to walk 15 ft, it is just not safe.


I get the feeling also that it was one of those "citizen on patrol" type of things.

There's a few things I have to say in response to this though:

1. Kidnapping - Highly doubtful. Even if someone wanted to take the car, they would've had to break a window. Most carjackers won't bother and most won't take a car if there's a child inside (they don't want kidnapping and carjacking).

2. Baby's don't just randomly choke while they're asleep (in a car seat). If they have a cold, they're more likely to start coughing a little, but unless they're eating, they're not likely to choke.

3. Have you seen modern car seats? Kids don't just "slip" out of them. They're buckled in pretty tight. Her 2 year old was in a car seat. The baby wasn't going to "slip out".

You cannot watch any child 100% of the time. It's just not possible. Depending on the environment (locked room that's child proofed, house with gates blocking hallways) you can leave a child unattended or at least less attended. We do it all the time. We close all the doors to other rooms and block off the kitchen. All the outlets that are accessible have safety plugs in them. A 2 year old is not a 1 month old. It's plenty safe to let a 2 year old roam around a room or house as long as there's nothing they can get into. Walking 30 ft away from a locked car with a 2 year old sleeping while strapped into a car seat is pretty safe. In 2 mins time, the likelihood of anything bad happening is extremely low.

Our society is so gripped with fear about anything bad happening to our children that we're ending up with a nation of pussies. Children are going to get hurt. Children need to get hurt from time to time. Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
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lordjedi said:


we're ending up with a nation of pussies..


Ending up? Take a look around, I think we have already ended up a nation of pussies, and we are ready to join the rest of the "progressive" nations of the world in teaching all the little "non-progressive" countries how to evolve and become pussies themselves, thus introducing to the galaxy an entire planet of pussies. I wouldn't be surprised if our police officers were running around without guns in twenty years time.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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ferris209 said:


Look kids get kidnapped and/or die everyday. I don't care how far she away she was, several things could have happened to that baby including kidnapping, another car smashing into the van, the baby could have choked on something and died, or even just slip out of the seat and break it's neck. You cannot leave a child unattended at all, even to walk 15 ft, it is just not safe.


Those fears are possible, but in everyday life those fears are very irrational. I'd propose that most children are regularly in more danger while riding down the road with their parents in the car with them.

I don't necessarily see anything wrong with this law, if a child truly is in danger then an officer should have a degree of authority to take action. Officers aren't perfect and we shouldn't pretend that they never make mistakes. A huge problem with the law enforcement and justice systems throughout the world and throughout history is the lack of honesty when it comes to competency. If police or prosecutors would simply admit when they've made mistakes or generally gone too far, that would be a huge step in the right direction. Unfortunately we'd also need a public that is more forgiving and less politicians willing to use the mistakes of others to pretend that they are more competent. Some mistakes are understandable and in this case I think the officer made one.

"Now all Lucas has to do is make a cgi version of himself.  It will be better than the original and fit his original vision." - skyjedi2005

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Maybe it is irrational, but after having worked a few deaths of babies, I'd just as soon not see another one.
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I don't like seeing children die either. However, that doesn't mean I'm willing to let the State intervene every time it's perceived that a child "is at risk". If you want to arrest a mother for going shopping and locking her kids in the car (whether it's hot or cold out), go right ahead. But if she's on her way back to her car, with her keys in hand, then I think it's just stupid to intervene. I think the "we didn't know if the child had been kidnapped or not" excuse they gave is a bunch of bunk. Sounds to me like they were looking for some excuse to justify the actions of a community service person.

Even if she had given them the name of the baby, who's to say that she isn't lying? She could show them her ID then give them any random name that matches her last name. Somehow, I don't think they were going to let her go based on that alone.
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You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Her punishment should be getting very lightly smashed in the head with the Salvation Army Can. This is the Dinkins brand of justice, Dinkice.

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I would not leave any of my kids alone in the car for any reason. Heterosexual parents do this stuff all the time becauase they don't appreciate there children. It's so easy for them to make kids that they figure that they will just make a new one if something happens. Fruits like me, however, have to go through years of red tape for each child, so we are really protective of our kids. I guess what I'm trying to say is that gay parents are vastly superior to straight parents. Before you religious weirdos go off on me for being gay and having kids, let me assure you that I have not made any of them gay. They are all straight as an arrow, and one of them even hates homos.

HARMY RULES

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Rob said:

I would not leave any of my kids alone in the car for any reason. Heterosexual parents do this stuff all the time becauase they don't appreciate there children. It's so easy for them to make kids that they figure that they will just make a new one if something happens. Fruits like me, however, have to go through years of red tape for each child, so we are really protective of our kids. I guess what I'm trying to say is that gay parents are vastly superior to straight parents. Before you religious weirdos go off on me for being gay and having kids, let me assure you that I have not made any of them gay. They are all straight as an arrow, and one of them even hates homos.


I'm not even going to dignify that with a response. You are ignorant and intolerant. I would think an "oppressed" individual would know better.
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You're gay.

HARMY RULES

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No Rob, you are. And that's a fact.
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You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Concurred. He obviously came in here to stir shit up. Yeah, straight parents don't care what happens to their kids because they can just make another one. After all, it's not like giving birth is a prolonged and painful experience that a lot of people try to avoid, or anything. And it's not like losing a child can drive straight people to depression, drunkenness, divorce, or even suicide. Yep, no big deal. Just pop another bun in the oven and it's good as new.