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Most Liberal and Conservative movies

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What do you think?
I have for Liberal.
To Kill A Mockingbird
Schindler's List
Soylent Green
Roger and Me
Planet of the Apes
The US vs John Lennon
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I really don't see the point of this, it is pretty hard to mark a movie liberal or conservative. It also depends on the aspect of the film you look at. I fail to see anything that warrants the use of a superlative regarding the liberalness of the majority of those films.

To Kill A Mockingbird
Schindler's List
Soylent Green
Planet of the Apes

To Kill A Mockingbird is pretty chock full of "conservative" themes (how I hate these silly increasingly inaccurate descriptors more and more everyday).
Planet of the Apes has some pretty conservative themes in it as well, but I suppose you are focusing on the evolution aspect of the film. It is ashame a film with so many great themes to it get
chocked off as "evolutionary propaganda" by "liberals". Kind takes a great work of sci-fi and makes it a pile of crap. Notice the word "sci-fi", this indicates the science described in the movie should not be used to prove anything regarding science in the real world, because it is a work of fantasy. More about social ills than about atheism. Evolution is merely a plot point. And let's not forget Caesar's speech about if it is God's will that apes should rule man, then it will be done with kindness and compassion.
Soylent Green ^ Charlton Heston, same actor who plays in Planet of the Apes is an extreme "conservative". Not that that makes such a difference about the films contents, but I still don't see much "liberalism" about it.
Schindler's List? This is the film about the Jews right? Is it liberal because it contains Nazis?

Do you know why "liberal" and "conservative" are such retarded concepts? Because in the manner we use them today they are pretty non descriptive, very slippery terms. If I claim to be a conservative then who is liberal? Well, anybody who is not as conservative as me. If I claim to be a liberal, who is conservative? Anybody who isn't quite as liberal as myself. One man's conservative is another man's liberal. In a classical sense of the word I am a flaming liberal, just like every other American alive today (including G.W. Bush).

With that said, I will give you Roger and Me and The US vs. John Lennon, for one I have not seen them and another I know anything by Michael Moore is going to be swollen with his backwards intellect like a wound with puss. If I am going to be labeled a conservative, at least Michael Moore is one person I do not have to feel ashamed to share the same affiliation with. If I were a liberal I would be terribly embarrassed to have him on my side.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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heeey... where do you guys get those "fan" bars (Sean Wookie)? I want to make one. Sorry for going off-topic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/Lord_Phillock/starwarssig.png

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Userbars. We need more Star Wars userbars in that thread. I've posted a few, but others need to step up.

Was there ever a Captain Planet movie?
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If V for Vendetta isn't a liberal movie, I don't know what is.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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Hmm... I never thought of a movie as "liberal" or "conservative". Only sometimes as "typical American".
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Originally posted by: Arnie.d
Hmm... I never thought of a movie as "liberal" or "conservative". Only sometimes as "typical American".




I have always loved the term typically American. Somethings are just so painfully American that everyone but Americans notice them as such.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: Nanner Split
If V for Vendetta isn't a liberal movie, I don't know what is.


V for Vendetta is a warning against far-right reactionsim. It seems to me like it's taking what literally goes on in Muslim cultures today and applying it to how horrifying it would be if it happened in the Western World. If anything, it's a warning to fight the kind of religious fantacism that our enemies embrace, and rather scathing in the fact it makes it clear that ultimately the people are to blame for tyranny, because they acqueisce to it.

Overall, I think most movies aren't easily classified as 'liberal' or 'conservative'. I mean, I've seen liberals blast films as innoculous as The Incredibles for, according to left-wing nut jobs, espousing Nazi ideals. I think there's definitely a good social message in the film--don't be mediocre, be great--and liberals HATE that sort of message.

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Originally posted by: C3PX
Originally posted by: Arnie.d
Hmm... I never thought of a movie as "liberal" or "conservative". Only sometimes as "typical American".




I have always loved the term typically American. Somethings are just so painfully American that everyone but Americans notice them as such.

Oh, but it's not always painful or negative.
Generally speaking I like most "typical American" things.

Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Painfully in the context I used it in isn't so much to be negative, it is sort of an expression meaning that it is not just the way it is but extremely so to the point it is hard to miss. So obvious that it beats you over the head as it were.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Sort of like Superman, only they wouldn't allow the line "truth, justice, and the American way" in Superman Returns because it would "offend international audiences" or something to that effect.

http://i.imgur.com/7N84TM8.jpg

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Originally posted by: Nanner Split
Sort of like Superman, only they wouldn't allow the line "truth, justice, and the American way" in Superman Returns because it would "offend international audiences" or something to that effect.


Not quite. They had most of the line. It was "Truth, justice, and all that other good stuff". Kind of annoying personally. The moment he said it I knew it was kind of an anti-American slant. A friend of mine really hated it, to the point of "The movie sucked". Whether or not the current administration isn't doing things the right way, the line should not have been changed. Truth and justice are the American way.

Regarding V for Vendetta, I didn't really see it as pointing out things about Muslim countries. I saw it as pointing out where things were headed in America. Again, it looked like another anti-America propaganda movie to me.

Interestingly enough, if you aren't aware of when LOTR was written, it also looks like a warning for America against where we could be heading. So the current atmosphere can certainly paint a movie in the wrong perspective.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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Originally posted by: C3PX
Painfully in the context I used it in isn't so much to be negative, it is sort of an expression meaning that it is not just the way it is but extremely so to the point it is hard to miss. So obvious that it beats you over the head as it were.

Ah, I see what you mean now.


Who says "Truth, justice, and all that other good stuff"? I can't remember that line.

Edit: I think I remember, is it when the boss of the daily planet says "does he still stand for ..."?
If that's the line thank god they changed it. "Does he still stand for truth, justice and the American way?" Yes, that would have been a disaster. Truth and justice, fine.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Exegesis - "to read out of"
Eisegesis - "to read into"

Unfortunately in our modern world exegesis is becoming obsolete, as everyone rushes to read everything into everything else. Like lordjedi said, if you didn't know when Lord of the Rings was written it could be taken as a warning of where America is heading. You can read anything into anything you want. This is why 300 has been taken by so many to be complete propaganda in favor of taking out Iran. This is why so many have considered Children of Men to be somewhat about the current state of imigration in the US. You could take anything and make it anything else. This is why the Bible has been made to say and mean so many things is doesn't over the centuries. When you bring all this baggage with you into your arts and entertainment you are going to end up with some very "deep" and "profound" things that were never there to begin with.

That is really stupid about the "truth, justice and everything else", very retarded. I am getting sick of anti-Americanism in the US. Every other country has their right to be anti-American for whatever reason they choose, but for Americans to do it, this really proves the rotten state of things. That particular line would not have been one of those typically American things in a film. Usually the "typically American" things in films have to do with the very enthocentic world view Americans generally have, or just glaring bits of American culture that inevitable show up in own movies. Every culture has this, only Americans export a lot more films and TV shows than other countries do. Every culture has their quarks, America's just more visable to the rest of the world through our exported media.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: C3PX

That is really stupid about the "truth, justice and everything else", very retarded. I am getting sick of anti-Americanism in the US. Every other country has their right to be anti-American for whatever reason they choose, but for Americans to do it, this really proves the rotten state of things. That particular line would not have been one of those typically American things in a film. Usually the "typically American" things in films have to do with the very enthocentic world view Americans generally have, or just glaring bits of American culture that inevitable show up in own movies. Every culture has this, only Americans export a lot more films and TV shows than other countries do. Every culture has their quarks, America's just more visable to the rest of the world through our exported media.


QFT.

Some of the things people read into movies sometimes utterly astounds me. I encountered one review of TMNT on the internet which basically said that TMNT was about organized violence and prepairing young children to become evil American warmongers. WTF!? Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is now PROPAGANDA!?

You've GOT to be kidding me.

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Documentaries are never subjective (not that such a thing as subjectivity really exists) and are rarely fair. So, inevitably they always lean to way side or another in their views, mostly because they are made to prove a point, and being subjective or fair isn't the right way to go about that, especially if being fair takes the stab out of your point.

Bowling for Columbine, Inconvenient Truth, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon, etc. would convince no one if they were being subjective. Anybody who looks into Michael Moore's anachronistic and manipulative editing methods, digs a little deeper on the GW thing, or does a tiny bit of investigation into the moon landings, the materials brought back, or checks up on the guy who is always pushing the fake moonlandings and his motivation for it, they are going to have a completely different opinion about any of those subjects than they would if they watched the documentary and walked away feeling they know everything there is to know on the subject (which, unfortunately, is what most people tend to do when viewing documentaries).

Documentaries by their very nature are bias. For a good example of this, watch Empire of Dreams then read Zombie's book, you'll see that something as simple as a documentary on the making of a series of films can still be extremely biased.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: C3PX
Exegesis - "to read out of"
Eisegesis - "to read into"

Unfortunately in our modern world exegesis is becoming obsolete, as everyone rushes to read everything into everything else. Like lordjedi said, if you didn't know when Lord of the Rings was written it could be taken as a warning of where America is heading. You can read anything into anything you want. This is why 300 has been taken by so many to be complete propaganda in favor of taking out Iran. This is why so many have considered Children of Men to be somewhat about the current state of imigration in the US. You could take anything and make it anything else. This is why the Bible has been made to say and mean so many things is doesn't over the centuries. When you bring all this baggage with you into your arts and entertainment you are going to end up with some very "deep" and "profound" things that were never there to begin with.

That is really stupid about the "truth, justice and everything else", very retarded. I am getting sick of anti-Americanism in the US. Every other country has their right to be anti-American for whatever reason they choose, but for Americans to do it, this really proves the rotten state of things. That particular line would not have been one of those typically American things in a film. Usually the "typically American" things in films have to do with the very enthocentic world view Americans generally have, or just glaring bits of American culture that inevitable show up in own movies. Every culture has this, only Americans export a lot more films and TV shows than other countries do. Every culture has their quarks, America's just more visable to the rest of the world through our exported media.


Great info C3PX, I think another perfect example of eisegesis is where I heard a couple years back, I do not rememeber where, that some folks were believing that Revenge of the Sith was a play on the current Presidency. Implying that the Emporer was Bush and how he organized the Empire was how Bush was organizing his Empire by making up the whole mulsim extremist stuff. It was a bunch of crap and stupid, but a perfect example of eisegesis. I like that word.
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Yeah, but in that case George made it a valid case with his "If you're not with me you are against me Obi-Wan" line. That was a pretty clear reference to Bush, or if it was unintentional it is pretty understandable for it to be mistaken as such. Also it was writen years after Bush gave his "if you not with us your against us" speech, so it very well could have been an intentional reference to that. I think, but I am not sure that at one point George Lucas said that Palpatine was influenced by Richard Nixon, who I believe was the president in office around the time Lucas was writing the drafts for SW. If that is true, then it seems George has writen contemporary political situations into his works before, so I see it as perfectly reasonable to assume it was an intentional Bush reference.

But I agree with you Ferris, people took it way too far in their comparisons. It has been obvious since 1999 with the Phantom Menace that Palpatine was going to take over the Republic and make it an Empire. We just didn't know how it would be done. It is stupid to read so deeply into it. I think people enjoy being able to come up with analogies, but when they do so they have to connect everything to everything. If you were to do an exegesis of Revenge of the Sith, you would want to look into Lucas' political views, where he lives and where he was when writing it, what major evens were in the news during the time he wrote it. Every writer is influenced by the world around him. Knowing these things could help determine what Lucas was putting into his work, without reading own own ideas into too badly. This would actually be very interesting to do. With most writers when you do this, many very interesting things come to light. Whenever I read a book, I like to read a little bit about the writer first, find out where he lived and during what time, then do some historical research into the place he lived and what the situation was like during his life.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape

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Originally posted by: Arnie.d
Originally posted by: C3PX
Painfully in the context I used it in isn't so much to be negative, it is sort of an expression meaning that it is not just the way it is but extremely so to the point it is hard to miss. So obvious that it beats you over the head as it were.
Ah, I see what you mean now.


Who says "Truth, justice, and all that other good stuff"? I can't remember that line.

Edit: I think I remember, is it when the boss of the daily planet says "does he still stand for ..."?
If that's the line thank god they changed it. "Does he still stand for truth, justice and the American way?" Yes, that would have been a disaster. Truth and justice, fine.


A disaster? How so? The United States of America was founded on the ideals of Truth and Justice, so it is the American way. Like I said in my previous post, just because the current administration might be making some people angry (others were angry at the US before he came into office, so that's not his fault), doesn't mean that Truth and Justice aren't still the American way.

Originally posted by: C3PX
This is why 300 has been taken by so many to be complete propaganda in favor of taking out Iran.


Really? I had only heard that Iran didn't like it because it supposedly made Persians look bad. Something about wanting to invade other countries and subjugate their people ? Of course, if those same people knew the real story of 300, not just the movie, they might look at it a little differently.
F Scale score - 3.3333333333333335

You are disciplined but tolerant; a true American.

Pissing off Rob since August 2007.
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It should have been "Truth, Justice, 'n' The American Way--all that stuff."

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A disaster? How so? The United States of America was founded on the ideals of Truth and Justice, so it is the American way. Like I said in my previous post, just because the current administration might be making some people angry (others were angry at the US before he came into office, so that's not his fault), doesn't mean that Truth and Justice aren't still the American way.

You said truth and justice is the American way so I would say truth and justice would be enough. Besides, superman is not an american, he's not even human. Adding "the American way" would not be bad in my opinion because of the current administration, it has nothing to do with that. Mixing "the American way" with a universal figure like superman will look like Americans can't look beyond there own country. There's no truth and justice in any other part of the world?

Edit: Or is "truth, justice and the American way" some sort of proverb? Something you usually say in one sentence? Is it like when you say "truth, justice" it's automatically followed by "the American way" than it's stupid to leave it out.
I'm thinking about this too much. I probably would not have noticed it if it would have been truth, justice and the American way.
Fez: I am so excited about Star Whores.
Hyde: Fezzy, man, it's Star Wars.
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Originally posted by: Arnie.d
A disaster? How so? The United States of America was founded on the ideals of Truth and Justice, so it is the American way. Like I said in my previous post, just because the current administration might be making some people angry (others were angry at the US before he came into office, so that's not his fault), doesn't mean that Truth and Justice aren't still the American way.
You said truth and justice is the American way so I would say truth and justice would be enough. Besides, superman is not an american, he's not even human.

Physically, he's not human, but he was raised on a quaint farm in Kansas by a couple of Americans, and he lives in and protects one of America's greatest cities.

Adding "the American way" would not be bad in my opinion because of the current administration, it has nothing to do with that.


Excuse me? Are you saying, that based on your (in my opinion erroneous) view that Bush is somehow unjust and untruthful, that America no-longer stnads for truth and justice? That's incredibly near-sighted. Did anyone say America was inherently untruthful and unjust when Clinton was being impeached for lying under oath? Or was Nixon's sin somehow the fault of the American people?

Mixing "the American way" with a universal figure like superman will look like Americans can't look beyond there own country. There's no truth and justice in any other part of the world?


That's not the point, though. Truth and Justice are, at least ideally, the American way. It doesn't mean that the rest of the world doesn't have truth and justice.

Edit: Or is "truth, justice and the American way" some sort of proverb? Something you usually say in one sentence? Is it like when you say "truth, justice" it's automatically followed by "the American way" than it's stupid to leave it out.


"Truth, Justice, and The American Way," is as far as I know a phrase that originanted in the 1950s Superman television series. It's something that's been associated with the character of Superman for over 50 years. If you look up the phrase on Wikipedia, it literally redirects you to the Superman article.

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Originally posted by: Arnie.d
A disaster? How so? The United States of America was founded on the ideals of Truth and Justice, so it is the American way. Like I said in my previous post, just because the current administration might be making some people angry (others were angry at the US before he came into office, so that's not his fault), doesn't mean that Truth and Justice aren't still the American way.

You said truth and justice is the American way so I would say truth and justice would be enough. Besides, superman is not an american, he's not even human. Adding "the American way" would not be bad in my opinion because of the current administration, it has nothing to do with that. Mixing "the American way" with a universal figure like superman will look like Americans can't look beyond there own country. There's no truth and justice in any other part of the world?

Edit: Or is "truth, justice and the American way" some sort of proverb? Something you usually say in one sentence? Is it like when you say "truth, justice" it's automatically followed by "the American way" than it's stupid to leave it out.
I'm thinking about this too much. I probably would not have noticed it if it would have been truth, justice and the American way.


"Truth, Justice, and the American way" is a line very closely related to Superman. Also Superman is an American myth. A very deep rooted part of our popular culture. He is as American as any of us, even if he is an immigrant. Maybe it seems cheesy to outsiders, but it has been this way forever. Superman is 100% American. He is an American icon.

It is true Americans have a hard time seeing beyond their boarders. Though if you understand Americans it is hard to blame them for this. Of course it is a form of ignorance and should be fought, but it is at least a somewhat understandable form of ignorance. There was actually a issue, or a series of issues of Superman comics that went the "what if Superman had crashed in the Soviet Union" route. Pretty interesting actually. Instead of standing for the American ideals of the Superman that grew up in Smallville, the Red Son stands for the ideals of Communism. A very interesting idea really.

"Every time Warb sighs, an angel falls into a vat of mapel syrup." - Gaffer Tape